Talk:St Andrew's Church, Kiev

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UAOC headquarters?[edit]

Could anyone confirm or disconfirm whether the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church currently has its headquarters in St. Andrew's Cathedral? If so, this info is worthwhile to be mentioned in the text -Irpen 20:52, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

Searching through the RuNet, I found several mentions that the church was leased to the UAOC by the Kuchma government. No info that it was turned into their headquarters, however. -Ghirlandajo 10:55, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Yes it is hard to tell. The UAOC's web-site is not very informative. Besides there seems to be two sites and they are not linked and not updated. BTW, the current phrasing is not optimal in my opinion. We should either say nothing (leaving it up to the user to click on wikilink) or say more than just that the church is "unrecognized". BTW it's own article as well as the entire History of Christianity in Ukraine need much improvement. -Irpen 17:13, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

UAOC Status[edit]

I've implemented the idea of Irpen and removed the following passage:

unrecognized by major Orthodox patriarchate

Apart from discussing about what the F is major and how important could it be, anyone should agree that such details are irrelevant. We're building the article on the architectural landmark, not on inter-church quarrels. So no, Irpen, we should not say more than just that the church is "unrecognized". AlexPU 21:20, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I modified the article with a more descriptive but still a very brief info on UAOC. Why this is relevant is discussed at talk page of St. Volodymyrs. --Irpen 02:27, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Please write BISHOP BOGDAN for all info about the UAOC 06 Feb.2006

I see that the part "a minority Ukrainian church unrecognized by the Eastern Orthodox Communion" is yet another decoration, which according to some (Ghirlandajo and Irpen) must stay. Why wikilink is not enough? Who knows... --Anonymous

Anonymous, just take a look in the article's history. I changed the formulation to a softer form than it was originally. Now, are you saying that the fact that one of the most prominent churches in Kiev is used by the organization whose claim to be called an "Orthodox Church" is not recognized in the Orthodox christianity is not important enough to be mentioned in the church's article? If so, just explain why you consider it too a minor detail. Please note, that we take no position whether UAPC is a "true" Orthodox church. Neither that is somehow illegitimate (which it isn't since it is properly registered in Ukraine). We simply state the fact about its standing within the worldwide Ortodoxy. --Irpen 06:57, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

It's a minor detail because the Andriyvska Church is a museum (and one of the top Kiev tourist attraction), and only occasionally it's used for religious service. That's what probably is enough to be mentioned. But then the name of organization, which is using the church ocassionally is given. That's what is really enough. But then the description of the organization is provided (as a "minority church"; "minor church" may be better). And then it follows with a detail that the church is not recognized by the Communion. Actually, all churches are equally recognized by the government. So, at the end, do we really need the frankly unrelated detail in this article? You know my answer. --Anonymous

Check Talk:St Volodymyr's Cathedral for a thorough discussion. --Irpen 08:51, 1 April 2006 (UTC)


The article for the UAOC says that this church is their HQ and patriarchal cathedral. Therefore it should be categorized as a cathedral. Unless this in an error. If so please change the UOAC article. --Kevlar (talkcontribs) 22:43, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Being a resident of Kiev, I have always heard St. Andrew's called a church and never as a cathedral. There is some different opinions on what constitutes a church or a cathedral, but this one was too small to be considered one (I heard that somewhere, idk where gotta find the ref soon). It may just refer to it as just a patriarchal cathedral but in all reality its still considered a church (look at all the modern and historic news sources, museum sites, etc.) 05:17, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
The building should still be categorized as a cathedra (seat of a bishop) is it is one, regardless of whether or not it is still popularly thought of a "just a church". --Kevlar (talkcontribs) 22:42, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Russian or Ukrainian Baroque?[edit]

This cathedral is a fine example of Eastern-style Baroque. But is it classified as Russian baroque or Ukrainian Baroque? Or a mixture of both? In Ukraine and Russia in Their Historical Encounter, Peter J. Potichnyj calls it St. Petersburg (Russian) Baroque. The Academic American Encyclopedia says the same. However, Sarah Johnstone and Greg Bloom call it Ukrainian Baroque. As far as I know, none of these people are architectural experts. What Baroque sub-style is it classified as? I want to add the picture to one of those articles, that's why I ask. If no one knows for certain, then I will add it to the Russian baroque article based on the first two sources. --ChristianHistory (talk) 05:47, 1 January 2012 (UTC)