Talk:St Nazaire Raid

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Query[edit]

Hello everyone - what was a tar baby in this context? Regards, Notreallydavid 04:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Legitimate False Flag[edit]

"The British legitimately flew the Kriegsmarine ensign as a false flag "

That is a curious sentence. In what sense was it legitimate? There should probably be a citation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.63.82.163 (talk) 14:50, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

A warship is allowed under international law to fly a false flag ('false colours') as a ruse de guerre, as long as the false flag is hauled down and the true national colours hoisted before opening fire. In this case the British would have flown the Kriegsmarine flag for as long as they could, before they then replaced it with the White Ensign when they knew their deception had finally been recognised and they decided to return fire. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.112.59.39 (talk) 20:18, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Back out to sea[edit]

I think it would be worth mentioning that the reason Durrant got a VC was mostly due to the testimony of the German destroyer's Captain who admired the sheer bravery of the man. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.251.252.7 (talk) 18:09, 2 April 2007 (UTC).

query[edit]

In the second paragraph ("Despite teaming up with a regular soldier unit in the town, the commandos were either killed or captured.") what is this 'teaming up'? Were there regular British infantry at St. Nazaire? Or is this some kind of erroneous reference to the arrival of a German army unit? HowardSelsam 17:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Is there a detailed source for the raid. Involving a minor dispute concernig David Irvings details on the raid. It appears that Irving said 6? laborers were on board when the ship exploded. Any source for this - I assume he probably knows better than anyone but I would like the source if one exists. Thanks.159.105.80.141 19:48, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Removed reference[edit]

I removed a reference to The Sinking Of The Lancastria; Jonathan Fenby; Simon and Schuster UK Ltd; ISBN 0-7434-8943-8, as this does not relate to the topic of the article. Am I wrong? Vernon White . . . Talk 21:43, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Pictures[edit]

Hello. My english is so bad for that. I've two pictures to illustrate this article. If you want. Image:Forme Joubert - porte et usine de pompage.jpg et Image:Forme_Joubert_-_porte.jpg. Ludo29 (talk) 13:44, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

They look pretty good, is that the sea end of the Normandie dry dock? Modest Genius talk 00:33, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

British Survivors?[edit]

Here it lists the raiding British as 611 strong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Nazaire but in the Operation Chariot article it only mentions 22 escaping back to England on the small wooden boats, 168 dead and 214 POWs. so, one of those two has to be wrong. From the BBC tv documentary I believe I heard the number that made it back was the remaining 229 or so not 22 (Stickman20089 (talk) 05:01, 29 April 2008 (UTC))

Number of casualties[edit]

The english article stats that 400 Germans died during the raid, while the german version says only 42 died. Which figure is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.190.163.156 (talk) 11:17, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

42 died during the night's fighting. Rather more died in the delayed explosions. Modest Genius talk 00:35, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Raymond Couraud[edit]

I have completed an article on Raymond Couraud, also know as Captain Lee, the SAS man who later was to lead Operation Gaff - the attempt to kill Erwin Rommel. The French sites I have referenced to state that Couraud was the only French national to take part in the St Nazaire Raid. Anyone have any good references in English on this? Thanks! Rgds, --Trident13 (talk) 01:22, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


Royal Commandos?[edit]

The second paragraph refers to "royal commandos". There is surely a word missing here such as navy or marine?


First names and the table[edit]

Composition of the raiding force, para 4: "under the command of Captain Hodgeson" and "under the command of Captain Burn"
German forces, para 2: "Harbour Commander Korvettenkapitäin Kellerman"
Small ships, para 1: "Lieutenants T Boyd and TDL Platt"

These are just five examples (I'm sure there are more), of entries that do not show the first name of the individuals concerned, (the last entry sounds like part of a cricket score-card !) There are many that do, e.g. "Lieutenant Colonel Charles Newman, Sergeant Thomas Durrant". This format is far better. And it is still used to this day - Major Joe Bloggs, Corporal Donna Smith and so on.


I notice that the ML flotilla table is laid out in a rather strange way. I was going to change it to numerical order (I had already done the text) but did not when I saw that the 7th flotilla did not enter the story until near the end; perhaps that is why it is where it is.
What do others think?

RASAM (talk) 16:39, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Location[edit]

Saint Nazaire is absolutely not in Normandie but Loire-Atlantique. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.82.21.174 (talk) 09:21, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

That's correct, but I cannot find where in the article it claims to be in Normandy. Jim Sweeney (talk) 09:24, 21 September 2011 (UTC)