Talk:Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

References to use

Please add to the list references that can be used for the film article.

• Grimes, Caleb; Winship, George (2006). "Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back". Star Wars Jesus: A spiritual commentary on the reality of the Force. WinePress Publishing. ISBN 1579218849. 

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was page not moved. —harej (talk) (cool!) 02:57, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

---

Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back → The Empire Strikes Back — I understand wanting to create consistency with the other Star Wars film articles, but there are important user concerns to consider. The Empire Strikes Back is the common name of the film, and the one people are most likely to search for in the search engine. The whole "Star Wars: Episode V" prefix is a recent invention, and certainly the film wasn't called that when it was initially released. As a related aside, I'm curious as to what the copyright entry on the film actually is. WesleyDodds (talk) 02:18, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi → Return of the Jedi

• Support. The proposed title is the common name for the film. Jafeluv (talk) 05:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Oppose First, The Empire Strikes Back, and it's variants, immediately link to this page so there should be no concern there. The prefix of "Episode V" was in the film upon it's initial release. By using this same argument, one could argue that Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith should be titled simply Episode III or Revenge of the Sith since no one actually speaks the full title. Most people are familiar with the Episodic nature of the Star Wars films and are aware that Empire is the fifth in the series. Remember there is a difference between what is spoken and what is known. The title as it is right now avoids the most confusion. The Filmaker (talk) 09:02, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect. The article itself says the film was released under the name The Empire Strikes Back. The other Star Wars films might need to be renamed, too. I simply listed these ones first because they sure as hell weren't promoted and widely recognized as Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back and so forth, while the prequels spelled out the full titles right from the first trailers through all the promotional material. And, quite honestly, not everyone is familiar with Star Wars. I have a friend who had not seen any of the movies until 2006. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:18, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, as recently as the remastered VHS releases from 1995, the film was still labeled simply The Empire Strikes Back. The prefix came along with the advent of the prequel trilogy, but even then, it's primarily referred to by its original name. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:20, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

It is true that the film was promoted under the title of The Empire Strikes Back, but even then there has been debate over the actual title of the film. This is because in 1980, the film itself, not the promotional material, not the DVD or VHS covers, but the film itself features the title of "STAR WARS Episode V The Empire Strikes Back" in the opening crawl. I agree that it is more widely recognized under the name Empire Strikes Back, but it is not as if the current title causes confusion. It is also a safer title since it covers the three bases of it being Star Wars, which episode, and the subtitle/title. The only reason mentioned to perform this move was that it is the title people are more likely to search for. Yet The Empire Strikes Back does link to this page. I'm just not sure what the issue is here. The Filmaker (talk) 15:54, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

None of the films have proper opening credits. Specifically, you see the STAR WARS logo in all caps receeding into the distance, then it says "Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back" over a brief intro. Sure it's intended to be the fifth film in the series, but The Empire Strikes Back is the widely recognized common name. That's not even getting into the fact that disregarding the internal fictional chronology, it's actually the second film and would've remained so had they not gotten round to making the prequels. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:22, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

None of the films have proper marketing in the most true sense either. The film was titled within the film as "Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back" from the very beginning. If you really want to split hairs you'll see that in a lot of the marketing the film is depicted as "Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back" including the main posters. Also, the matter of it being the second film in the series has no bearing on the title itself since it was never officially considered to be "Episode II" or what have you. The fact is that the title of "Episode V" is not a recent thing has said. It was not invented for the DVD release or because of the prequel trilogy but has been around since the original release of the film. I don't really care what the marketing of the film demonstrated back then since the judgment on the title of a film should be based off..... the film itself! The film has never been titled simply as "The Empire Strikes Back". The Filmaker (talk) 05:06, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

No, as I said, it displays the Star Wars logo, then states "Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back", which is quite a different thing than explicitly naming it Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. You're inferring what it's title based on the film titles, when those aren't explicit. The film was not widely marketed as Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back until recently. Even in the 80s, the most you would get is, as you mentioned, was Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back. It's not the main title people would be looking for in Wikipedia. Going back to rationale behind the move suggestion, Frankenstein's full title is Frankenstein; or, the Modern Prometheus, but the article is not located there, because Frankenstein is the common name. WesleyDodds (talk) 06:59, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Specifically, Frankenstein is so named because we have a guideline that advises not to use subtitles in article titles except for disambiguation purposes. (That only explicitly applies for literary works, though.) Jafeluv (talk) 15:04, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

The reason for referring to the film as "The Empire Strikes Back" may have it's basis in the marketing of the film from the 80s. However the use of it today is only because the film's title is overly long. No one will take the time to say "Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back", but this shortening is not grounds for it being "the common name". By the same reasoning, we should retitle "Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones" as just "Episode II" since that is how I've most commonly referred to it as. A lot of people simply refer to the films by their subtitles, or by their abbreviation "AOTC or ESB", or by the Episode title, or even by one word of the subtitle such as "Empire" or "Jedi". I've heard all four of those consistently through the years. We cannot assume how everyone is going to refer to the film. With the current title we are able to cover all of these bases and have sublinks to the article just in case. If anything we are alienating people who refer to these films differently. The Filmaker (talk) 01:54, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I haven't seen any major secondary sources that refer to the films by acronyms. Nonetheless, we need to to apply the common name not only to facilitate searches by unfamiliar readers, but also to make wikilinking in various articles more concise. WesleyDodds (talk) 04:46, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Why? And how for that matter, does renaming the article make the wikilinking "more concise". We can have one title that represents "the common name" which cannot be proven to be "the common name". Or we can have the current title that represents the majority of the different versions of title itself, lowering the possibility of confusion. I believe we have the requisite redirects to avoid any problems with wikilinking. The redirects are what make the wikilinking "concise". The Filmaker (talk) 07:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the most common name for Episode II is probably just "Episode II". However, our articles are supposed to use the name the greatest number of English speakers would most easily recognize. An article titled "Episode II" could be about the second episode of any series, so it's not really an option. Also, I have trouble believing that most of our readers would recognize the acronyms "AOTC or ESB" at all. Jafeluv (talk) 08:09, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

And the most recognized name by English speakers is clearly covered by the current title. There is no moment of confusion when you first read the article title. The Filmaker (talk) 14:46, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Not being even remotely a fan of star wars I mainlyy know of these films just by the 'name' part of the title - I certainly couldn't link the name to eposide number. Google and google news results also suggest that just the name is the more common usage even allowing for the fact that one is a 'sub-name' of the other. Dpmuk (talk) 09:24, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
• Comment. Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi was listed as a separate move request. I've listed it here as well because the same arguments apply to both films really. Jafeluv (talk) 09:44, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
• Support. And add that Star Wars was only known as that for millions and millions of viewers. 199.125.109.126 (talk) 12:55, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
  • I disagree with including A New Hope here. "Star Wars" is an ambiguous term, and the article will have to be distinguished from the other articles with that title anyway. I would suggest starting a separate discussion for that one. Jafeluv (talk) 19:21, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
    • It already is. Star Wars is the entire franchise, for the series of films. That is why (film) is added. No one is going to type in "Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope", when looking for the film, but they could type in "Star Wars (film)". 199.125.109.126 (talk) 20:23, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
      • I don't disagree with renaming the film. What I disagree is including that article here as if all the same arguments applied there. They don't, because before moving A New Hope we need to decide which is the best of several possible ways of disambiguation. Jafeluv (talk) 20:33, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
  • I also don't disagree with renaming of episode IV but I do disagree with including it in this move request as the issues are significantly different and so, in my opinion, require their own discussion. Dpmuk (talk) 20:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree. That's why I didn't include it with the original renaming nomination (personally, I wouldn't mind just going with "Star Wars (film)", but it's not as simple as that. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:18, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I've removed it for now. Feel free to list a separate request for that one. Jafeluv (talk) 07:05, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Done, but it is counterproductive to fragment discussion about the same topic. 199.125.109.126 (talk) 15:02, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

• Strongly Oppose This is probably one of the worst ideas I've seen for a move. It makes no sense at all to move the article.『 ɠu¹ɖяy 』^¤ 19:48, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
  • What? All three movies are primarily known simply as suggested. Makes perfect sense to move all three of them. As to the prequels, though, they are lesser known, and it does not matter what they are called. 199.125.109.126 (talk) 20:25, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

And why is that? The prequels don't matter? If you're going to apply the logic of the subtitle being the most well-known to the original trilogy, then you should apply it to the prequel trilogy. Yet no one is going to argue that Attack of the Clones is known as simply that. Yet the episodic nature of Star Wars has been established well enough that nothing is gained by moving these articles. The Filmaker (talk) 22:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

The prequels are completely different, they were never released as anything but episode such and such of the Star Wars trilogy. Their name is Star Wars Episode II:, etc. Not so with Star Wars, Return of the Jedi, and The Empire Strikes Back, all of which were released, and primarily known, just under those names, and that is what all three articles should be titled. 199.125.109.126 (talk) 14:52, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Agreed With the prequel trilogy, each episode was advertised as Star Wars Episode I, Star Wars Episode II & Star Wars Episode III, not generally by their subtext title. With the titles having the entire name, it covers all bases. 『 ɠu¹ɖяy 』^¤ 17:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

• Strongly Oppose If it can be encyclopedic, let it be; no reason to devolve everything on Wikipedia to the most common denominator. --< Nicht Nein! (talk) 22:57, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Can you give a rationale based on Wikipedia policy? WesleyDodds (talk) 23:24, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• Support. The proposed titles are both the movie's original titles and their common names. — AjaxSmack 01:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose The correct names of the movies include "Star Wars Episode #", so it would be factually incorrect to list them otherwise. Redirects already exist for those that type in the subtitles. TJ Spyke 23:38, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

The "correct" names for these films is debatable, hence why we should go with the common names. WesleyDodds (talk) 22:49, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

No, we should go with the title with the most clarity, and the least amount of confusion, which the current title holds. The Filmaker (talk) 14:49, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

• Strong support. Common names, and original names. --hippo43 (talk) 23:58, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose This is just silly. The full title of the film should be the article name, the most common short form is already a redirect. The claim that the "Star Wars #" was only added after the advent of the most recent slew of films is incorrect & I invite the claimant to watch the films from the beginning. Also, the packaging on all the merchandise from both TESB and ROTJ had the title Star Wars framing the individual episode titles. L0b0t (talk) 11:30, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose - Whatever some editors may mistakenly believe about the title of the film based on past marketing and advertising materials, the name of the film, as shown on-screen since it was originally release, is and always has been "Star Wars Episode V: The Empre Strikes Back". TheRealFennShysa (talk) 15:21, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
• Some data: The official website uses "Star Wars: Episode V The Empire Strikes Back", IMDB uses "Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back", Amazon.com uses "Star Wars Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back", and Rotten Tomatoes uses "The Empire Strikes Back". Difficult to get an estimate from a Google search as to what is the most common name (most results mention all terms in some way), but these authoritative (and semi-authoritative) sources might inform. -kotra (talk) 21:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Image issue(s)

The fair use of image:Empire-AlWilliamson.jpg in this article is questionable. Listed below is/are the reason(s) for this:
• Significance: Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase, or its lack would significantly hinder, understanding the topic of the article. Full policy

Spotimage that tagentaly relates to the topic but is not really discussed in the article.

If the above concern(s) can be addressed in light of the relevant policies and/or guidelines, the image use can be retained. If not, the image needs to be removed from the article.

The issue with Empire-AlWilliamson.jpg has been addressed.

- J Greb (talk) 20:36, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Image removed as only decorative. - J Greb (talk) 01:41, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

I scored the Jackpot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.90.207.20 (talk) 02:52, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Great secrecy?

The article states that "During production, great secrecy surrounded the fact that Darth Vader was Luke's father... Until the film premiered, only George Lucas, Irvin Kershner, Mark Hamill, and James Earl Jones knew what would really be said." How can it be true if the movie was premiered on May 21, 1980, and the novellization was released on April 12, 1980, thus more than a month before the film? Arctifox (talk) 21:27, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Well then those who read the book the month before would know the secret, however, a month before the movie premired filming was wrapped up, so its still true that all the cast did not know about it. There are also sources that say that this is true, I think its actually in the bonus footage of the film as well. 97.126.59.26 (talk) 06:58, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

30 years later

I wonder if any info can come from this article: Hanks, Henry. "30 years later, 'Empire' left a lasting mark." CNN. May 21, 2010 WhisperToMe (talk) 22:43, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit Protected?

Its been awhile since I have been logged off and looking at a featured article (or bothered to read one at all), however, isn't it customary to at least simi-protect a featured article, that way we don't get crappy edits that people see?

We surely don't want some guy to sneak in that Chewbacca was gay with Han, and someone not catch it for 10-20 minutes or more. If its at least simi-protected we can limit the amount of vandalism. :) 97.126.59.26 (talk) 07:09, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

See WP:TFAP --Siradia (talk) 16:58, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

How on earth did that make it to the front page?

"While patrolling near the base, Luke tells Han Solo that he is going to be late returning to base camp because he is going to investigate a meteor that had crashed nearby (really an Imperial probe droid)". The rest of the article is not much better. How did that make it to the front page? I can only infer that nobody with a decent command of English reads such nominations. Embarassing. 192.44.242.18 (talk) 10:36, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

I completely agree. Whoever gave this FA status clearly didn't read the article. The introduction to the article sounds like it was ripped right out of a theatrical trailer. Vrinan (talk) 18:53, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Why you do not fix it? Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 19:02, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Because we have better things to do, but at a quick glance it is clear this isn't something we should showcase. I'm starting a featured article review, this was promoted 3 years ago. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 19:15, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

"Cast" section is all about the characters, not the actors

Would it be appropriate to focus more on information about the actors? The Cast section in this article currently contains items such as this:

Harrison Ford as Han Solo: A smuggler who aided the Rebellion in exchange for money. Han has since accepted a place as a Captain in the rebel alliance. However, he is in debt to Jabba the Hutt. Intending to pay off Jabba, Solo is trapped on Hoth by the Imperial blockade.

In contrast, other film articles (like Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (film)) give real-world information about the actors:

Rupert Grint plays Ron Weasley, a red-haired wizarding boy, the youngest boy of seven children from a disadvantaged family, who develops a long standing friendship with Harry. At thirteen years old, Grint was the oldest actor of the trio. He decided he would be perfect for the part "because [he has got] ginger hair," and was a fan of the series. Having seen a Newsround report about the open casting he sent in a video of himself rapping about how he wished to receive the part. His attempt was successful as the casting team asked for a meeting with him.

--Doradus (talk) 14:02, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Many movies have both a Cast section and a Characters section. In the case of Star Wars, there are character articles, so I'd suggest following suit with Harry Potter. Link to the character, but explain the real-life situation of how the actor/actress came to be that character. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 14:18, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Odd sentence

"For the original viewers of the film, this scene made it clear that Vader is not a shablabchabfabkab nob wanted the screen credits to come at the end of the films." - Is this vandalism or something? What does "shablabchabfabkab nob" mean? 74.69.251.170 (talk) 20:43, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

It was vandalism, and it has been reverted.Guy546^(Talk) 20:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Sixth, Not Fifth?

The article currently states that Empire was the second Star Wars film released, and the fifth by internal chronology. However, as the Clone Wars movie was a full-fledged theatrical release, wouldn't it be more correct to say that Empire is the sixth film (out of seven) by internal chronology? 12.45.255.66 (talk) 20:47, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

The retun of Jedi is the sixth, like title says "Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 20:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

If you mean the animated movie The clone wars, it is not inlcluded. Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 20:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

It is correct to say it is the 6th film/theatrical release in chronological story order, but the 5th "episode". The former refers to the number of releases, the latter to the canonical labeling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.65.34.210 (talk) 22:24, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

I note that the article now calls it the fifth main film, which satisfies my concerns. 12.45.255.66 (talk) 20:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Details in the plot that need sources

I know the accepted practise is not to source the plot, as the subject itself is the source. However, several plot details are simply not in the film. For example, the probe droid self destructing. Do we know that from watching the movie? How about Luke seeng his own face under Vader's mask? Can we safely say, having only watched the movie, that this is him previsioning his turn to the dark side?

I'd like citations and fixes on the following details. There is a million dollars worth of franchised crap that details everything down to R2D2's circuits, so this shouldn't be difficult Star Wars nerds:

• Despite their victory over the Galactic Empire with the destruction of the Death Star, the Rebel Alliance has suffered setbacks; the Empire's forces have driven the rebels into hiding, forcing some of them to establish a hidden base on the remote ice planet Hoth.

Isn't this the first part of the text that drifts through space? Word for word?

• Luke tells Han Solo that he is going to be late returning to base camp because he is going to investigate a meteor that had crashed nearby (really the Imperial probe droid).

I don't remember that. Special edition perhaps? Novel? Extended universe books?

Nope, this is directly from the movie. As per the script, "LUKE (into comlink)'Right. I'll see you shortly. There's a meteorite that hit the ground near here. I want to check it out. It won't take long.'"

• He has a vision of his late mentor, Obi-Wan Kenobi, who instructs him to go to the planet Dagobah to train under Jedi Master Yoda.

Is it a vision or is he speaking to him through the force. The movie generally makes it apparent that the latter is the case with the ghosts.

• They evade pursuit in an asteroid field, where Han and Leia begin to grow closer to each other.

Too general, and their attraction towards one-another is gradual over the course of the film.

• After a relatively brief period of intensive training, Luke has premonitions of Han and Leia in pain and of his possible fall to the dark side of the Force.

Who made that interpretation?

• As they watch Luke depart, the spirit of Obi-Wan laments that Luke is their last hope. Yoda disagrees and reminds Obi-Wan that there is another.

What does this mean? I'm not sure if this refers to Leia or Vader. This isn't an essay, explain the concept after building it up.

-The "no, there is another" line is directly from the film. The assumption after the fact was that it referred to Leia. I recal reading somewhere that the original intent was for there to be another jedi, other than Leia, who was not originally intended to be a sister. But that's anecdotal. There is no direct clarification of that line in the movie.

• Vader intends to hold Luke in suspended animation via carbon freezing, and selects Han as a test subject for the process.

Maybe I missed this part or something... I just remember that Vader wants to capture them, and freezes Han to give him to Boba Fett as a reward.

No, he freezes Han to test the process. This is explicitly stated in the film. Boba is less than happy about it, stating "he's no good to me dead" or something to that affect.

There was one more sentence at the end mentioning that Lando and Chewbacca are off to save Han. I removed that. Again, I do not remember any mention of this in TESB.

That is all for now :) - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 20:49, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Some questions answered in italics Italic text —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.65.34.210 (talk) 22:32, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

You've made some good points, Floydian, but I think I can help out with a few more of these:

Bullet #1: It does sound a bit like a Star Wars crawl, but it's not exactly the same. Wikiquote has the full crawl text, if you'd like to compare.

Bullet #3: I agree that "speaking through the force" would be more accurate, but I think that would be too much detail for someone who is unfamiliar with the film. We could link to Force (Star Wars)#Force Ghost, but we really shouldn't make people bounce around between so many pages in order to understand the plot. I think "has a vision" is good enough for this plot summary.

Brian the Editor (talk) 23:10, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, for number three (taking this from a later sentence) it would make more sense to say "The spirit of his late mentor, Obi-Wan Kenobi, appears before him and..."? - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 01:38, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

That sounds okay to me. Brian the Editor (talk) 17:22, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Discussion pertaining to non-free image(s) used in article

A cleanup page has been created for WP:FILMS' spotlight articles. One element that is being checked in ensuring the quality of the articles is the non-free images. Currently, one or more non-free images being used in this article are under discussion to determine if they should be removed from the article for not complying with non-free and fair use requirements. Please comment at the corresponding section within the image cleanup listing. Before contributing the discussion, please first read WP:FILMNFI concerning non-free images. Ideally the discussions pertaining to the spotlight articles will be concluded by the end of June, so please comment soon to ensure there is clear consensus. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 04:55, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

'Plot' and 'Cinematic and literary allusions' should be separate sections?

Hi there, just wanted to clarify if the plot section should also contain the sub-section on cinematic and literary allusions (as you can see in the article proper). I believe the two areas serve different purposes (allusions refer to referential mention; while plot refers to the development of a story), so perhaps it would be a better idea to create a new section to host content on allusions. I'm not an expert on Star Wars, nor on film articles, so I'll just like to raise this point for consideration here. Thanks, AngChenrui (talk) 13:54, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree and separated the two. Thanks for the heads-up! Erik (talk | contribs) 20:29, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

GAN

I removed the GAN because this article has just been delisted following a FAR, whose issues nobody has addressed yet. Until the improvements have been made, I do not believe this article to be of GA quality. There is far too much work to be done.--The Taerkasten (talk) 15:14, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Comments about the article

I noticed that this article is nominated for GA status. A couple of things that probably need to be addressed before anyone reviews the page are the cinematic allusions and the reception section. The first seems out of place right after the plot section. Normally, you have production right after the plot section. Secondly, you might want a bit more of a "summary" of what that entails before sending a reader off to another page. Otherwise, why bother having it when you can just put it in a "See also" section. Next, you need to clean up the reception page. If I was reviewing this for GA, I'd be forced to fail it instantly because it would meet the criteria for instant fail with all of the clean up tags and unsourced content riddled throughout the page (see all the "citation needed" tags). In addition, the Darth Vader image fails WP:FUC and WP:NONFREE. There is no critical commentary on the image itself. The information about him in this film is about the character, not about the appearance. Thus, a non-free image here doesn't meet the necessary requirements for use. Also, you may not want Rotten Tomatoes precentage so close to the top and used as if it represents the views of critics from when the film was released, because it doesn't. It actually represents the views of critics within the past 10 years, which is not the same as those from 30 years ago. Also not seeing where the " also one of the highest rated science fiction films of all time" is being appropriately sourced. All I get is another page of RT reviews.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 15:26, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I removed it per the FAR concerns.--The Taerkasten (talk) 15:29, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

I would probably make a recommendation to remove any sentence that is tagged with ^{[citation needed]}. − Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 16:06, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, It's not GA yet, the article still needs improvements before it is ready for GA. JJ98 (Talk) 20:04, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Hey why isn`t Lucas mentiobed as co-director and co wroiiter, he wa uncredited for both bu he i fact dd most of the writing and directing, also it should be nmetntioned he was creative omsiltant. 62.45.84.2 (talk) 19:35, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Wiki articles always mention an artists oficiall but uncredited part in the making of a film, so why does this articl;e deny Lucas his involment, are you people Lucas bashers or something??????????? 62.45.80.100 (talk) 06:41, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

No, you are engaging in adding original research, which will not be tolerated on Wikipedia. Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 13:22, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Aparently ther e are rules on English wiki, there aren`t on Durch wiki, but thn I`d like to now what I mneed yo do, and hoew I need to cite sources too add this info, also how can you justify putting wron info on here and what are your sources for thises, I fo think this should be correced, and I think you should then tell me how to ciote sources cause your guides are very cionfusing. 62.45.80.100 (talk) 10:09, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I added George Lucas and writer of he screenplay, ucredited, because the production section and the Leight Bracket articale on wiki both mention him as having written the second and third draft in between Bracket and Kasdan, and should`t wiki be concistent in order not to confuse people??????? Whatever source counts for that production part it automaticly aplies here if this isn`t true and Lucas didn`t co-write the screenplay just remove that but please be consistent, oke????????? Sanakara (talk) 05:22, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

The comment that "Empire Strikes Back" is 12th-highest grossing as of 2010 is now very dated, as it is now lower than 50th place. Unclemikejb (talk) 03:01, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

George Lucas vs. Irvin Kershner

Did George Lucas tell Irvin Kershner that he made Empire Strikes Back "too good" and "didn't need to spend as much money" on it? Are there any sources on this?--87.178.98.25 (talk) 14:58, 28 July 2011 (UTC)