Talk:Star Wars Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith

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Good article Star Wars Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith has been listed as one of the Video games good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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Request[edit]

I request someone to put an Box Art Cover for this game. I really appreciate it if they did. I now, shall thank the future person who put the Box Art Cover. Weirdy 00:54, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Compatibility with modern systems[edit]

I just tried running the game on Windows XP, and found that I couldn't get the HUD to display in hardware or software mode. Is this a known and documented problem? Has any workaround been created? Do I need to figure out how to update my drivers?

Also, the first-person weapon animations go too fast; but that doesn't affect playability as much. --DocumentN 19:15, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

No idea, I'm afraid. I'd try Google. Una LagunaTalk 21:04, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Never mind: It turns out you need to press the "Decrease viewsize" key, or set the screen size to one below the maximum, to get it to display. I'd hardly call that logical interface design, though. --DocumentN 17:30, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Redirect[edit]

This article previously was almost entirely plot summary and gameguide material, inappropriate for sustaining an article. Unless someone can provide substantiating third-party material to assert notability or provide other real-world information, there's no reason for it to fork from the base game. --EEMIV (talk) 20:46, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

What, exactly, would the article talk about besides the game's plot and gameplay? That's kind of all there is to say about it, or at least all that would be of interest to most readers. By that standard, shouldn't you be trying to get rid of Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II too? --DocumentN (talk) 21:25, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
See WP:WAF, Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games/Article_guidelines#Content —Preceding unsigned comment added by EEMIV (talkcontribs) 05:04, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Reception and Development (if information is available) are essential sections for a high-quality video game article. Just take a look at the articles at Wikipedia:Featured_articles#Video_games. Una LagunaTalk 16:38, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
The question is whether the article should exist, not whether it should be a featured article. Also, isn't declaring the article inappropriate and pointless and confining it to one section of another article more likely to discourage people from adding to it? --DocumentN (talk) 19:51, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
I've reverted the redirect to the main article of Star Wars Jedi Knight because me and other users have the same opinion. Volkov talk 09:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I am restoring the redirect. Feel free to work in user space on a rewrite of this article that passes Wikipedia's guidelines and policies regarding video game articles and reliable sources. Furthermore, undoing the redirect as "rvv" (reverting vandalism) is not a sign of good-faith editing. --EEMIV (talk) 10:06, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
OK, sorry for my rvv comment but other users and I think that the main article passes Wikipedia's guidelines. Volkov talk 16:33, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't see "other users" chiming in, nor do I see any improvements to this article that warrant its status as anything other than a redirect. Please heed my advice above -- work on a passable article in user space and then move it here. Right now, this article wholly fails to meet policies and guidelines about game expansions and reliable sources. --EEMIV (talk) 16:54, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Peer review[edit]

Star Wars Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith[edit]

The article just passed its GA Review. The reviewer recommended a peer review to increase the quality of the prose. Bill (talk|contribs) 22:19, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Review from Guyinblack25[edit]

Here are the issues which stood out to me.

The lead
  • I would reorganize the lead to follow the flow of the article. Start with introductory info, then mention gameplay, plot, development, and finish with reception and other notable tidbits.
  • I would also expand it to three decent sized paragraphs. Feel free to include a bit more specific, but important details, as it will make the lead less vague.
  • Missing comma:
    "It was developed and published by LucasArts, and released..."
  • Clarification would help. Was the AI improved?
    "...developments to theimproved artificial intelligence."
  • I would combine these two sentences to improve flow and reduce confusion:
    "The player initially takes controls of Kyle Katarn, the protagonist of Dark Forces II. L, and, later in Mysteries of the Sith, the player is given control ofin the game, Mara Jade, one of the most popular Star Wars Expanded Universe characters according to Star Wars Insider."
Gameplay
  • If the gameplay is similar to the original game, maybe include a link to give the reader more context.
    {{see also|Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II#Gameplay|l1=Gameplay of Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II}}
Single-player
  • Missing comma:
    "...primarily a first-person shooter, but offers the choice..."
  • Disambig link: Light side → Force (Star Wars)
  • I would reword to make it sound less in-universe:
    "...Mysteries of the Sith has a single, morally positive course for good."
  • A semicolon would be appropriate here:
    "The player progresses through the game in a linear fashion.; there are fourteen..."
  • In the sentence with examples of the weapons in the game, I would put the lightsaber first. I think that would improve the flow and decrease the chance of confusion for the reader.
Multiplayer
  • Reword "lightsaber-only maps" to reduce gaming jargon. Maybe something like "...which only allow players to battle with lightsabers."
  • If this is the only instance of "local area network", then the "(LAN)" part is not necessary.
Plot
  • I think a link to the plot section of the previous game would help give the reader more context. Like the gameplay section above.
  • I realize most editors try to keep plot sections short, but I think you can elaborate on some details. Right now, the details are sparse and I think it makes the sentences choppy. I'd say each paragraph could fit in 1-2 more sentences.
  • I would also see if some sentences could be combined to help improve the flow as well.
  • Trim to be more concise:
    "Mysteries of the Sith is set five years after the events that took place inof Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II."
  • Just sounds more professional to me, your call though:
    "The story follows oncontinues from the "light side" ending..."
  • Some grammar tweaks for simplicity and conciseness:
    "Like Katarn, Mara Jade is a formerly a member of the Galactic Empire, but has joined the New Republic to train to become a Jedi Knight."
  • Some tweaking to make the flow less choppy:
    "Imperial forces start to attack the base andin an attempt to take oversiege it."
  • Rewording to improve readability and give some more context:
    "Part of the attack includesThe base is being bombardedment by large weapons located onfrom two, nearby asteroids near by."
  • Trimming and redundancy:
    "Katarn lands ontravels to one of the asteroids and destroys it along with the other asteroidthem."
Development
  • I'd combine the first two sentences and rewrite the last part, just flows and sounds better to me.
    "Mysteries of the Sith was developed and published by LucasArts as an expansion to Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II., and requires tThe Dark Forces II CD ROM needs to be inserted when Mysteries of the Sith is loading otherwise the game will not start."
  • I'd also wikilink CD-ROM for the less technically inclined readers.
  • Same thing about combining and rewriting sentences here too. It makes the sentences more concise and improves the flow by giving the information in larger chunks.
    "LucasArts has extendedmade improvements to the 3D engine since its used in Dark Forces II. Improved features now by includeing colored lighting and shadows, and increased the number of textures and a higher frame rate."
  • I would clarify the info about "new dialogue was recorded". Having never played the game, I assume this means none of the old dialogue was reused. Maybe something like "Though the expansion includes characters from the previous game, new dialogue was recorded for Mysteries of the Sith's scenario"
  • The three paragraphs seem out of order to me. The first and last paragraphs focus on technical development while the middle one focuses on conceptual development. I'd switch the last two to improve the flow of the section.
  • Add some context:
    "For example, iIf a player were to use Force pull to take weapons..."
Reception
  • The mention of the GR and MC scores in the prose is redundant with the scores already in the table. I would remove them from the prose.
  • The first part ("Overall") of the last sentence of the first paragraph implies that multiple reviews said all the comments in the sentence. But the placement of the citations attributes the specific parts to single reviews. I would either rewrite the sentence mentioning the specific reviewers, or find similar comments from more of the reviews and cite at the end of the sentence.
  • There are a number of direct quotes used. I would paraphrase and summarize their words more.
  • Trim redundancy and tweak verb tense:
    "Paul Mallinson reviewing the game forof PC Zone statesd..."
    • Past tense is used for commentary
    • I normally switch between "REVIEWER of PUBLICATION" and "PUBLICATION's REVIEWER" to avoid repetition.
  • Some tweaking and trimming:
    "In contrast, Michael E. Ryan of GameSpot gave a different view, statinged that the game is uneven and the challenging levels are only at the end. This, which adversely affects the gameplay of Mysteries of the Sith adversely..."
    • I'd elaborate more on what was uneven for a general reader. Difficulty? Gameplay? Playtime?
  • "Critics questioned why..." Which critics? Again, this is a statement referring to multiple reviews when only a single review cited.
    • Try to minor the format used for the "...particular praise for the new colored lighting effects.". This statement is a generalized statement attributed to two different reviews.
  • The second instance of "Michael E. Ryan" doesn't need a full introduction. Referring to him by his last name is fine.
Images
  • Overall, image use looks good. The fair use rationales could use some beefing up; mainly just using more descriptive and complete sentences
  • The descriptions of File:Mystery-of-the-Sith.jpg and File:MotS-Cut-Scene.jpg could be elaborated more. Mention the characters by name, the game's title and platform, etc.
References
  • TopTenReviews has yet to be shown to be a reliable source. I'd suggest switching the citation with a general one from GameSpot.
  • Older reviews from GameSpot and IGN are sometimes considered unreliable because the sites had yet to establish their reliability. They're probably fine for just the reception section though.
  • Adrenaline Vault and PC Gameworld look questionable. If you plan on taking this article to FAC or request A-class, I would prepare a information on their editorial review process and any other reliable sources that have cited/referenced/praised the sites or these particular authors.
  • I would check out Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Magazines to see if there are any magazine reviews or features about the game.
Final remarks
  • If you want to go for FA I suggestion finding a few things first.
    • Some print sources are more preferred for older games like this.
    • Find out what regions the game was released in and add it to the article.
    • Expand the development section as much as you can. The more real-world content the better chances at FAC.
    • This may be difficult, but try to find some sales figures.
  • Another pair of eyes giving the article a quick copy edit would further improve the prose.
  • The article is in pretty good shape, and looks like it could pass A-class after some minor polishing.

That's all I have time for right now. I'll try to finish it this weekend. (Guyinblack25 talk 22:58, 16 January 2009 (UTC))

Thanks for the review. The suggestions sound good and I've tried to get most of them, though I've not expanded the Lead and Plot sections yet. --Bill (talk|contribs) 12:56, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
There's some more. I'll finish the reception section sometime this week. (Guyinblack25 talk 06:06, 19 January 2009 (UTC))
Sorry for the disjointed review. There's the last of it; hope it helps. Keep up the good work. (Guyinblack25 talk 19:15, 21 January 2009 (UTC))

Comments by Noj_R

Lead

  • The lead needs to mention gameplay.
  • "one of the most popular" - Most popular might be considered POV. Consider rewording, like "Mara Jade, a popular Star Wars Extended..."

Gameplay

  • "set objectives that the player"
  • "continue to the next level." - Next sentence starts with "level", so lets eliminate derivative appearances while improving the prose.
  • "Within each level, the player"
  • "As well as including some enemies that featured in Dark Forces II," -> "In addition to reoccurring enemies from Dark Forces II,"
  • "others can be used for non-violent activities" - Expand upon this. What kind of non-violent activities? How do they help the player?
  • "Each type of character has advantages and disadvantages." - Expand upon this. What kind of pros and cons do characters have?
  • "steal a ysalamiri" - a what? Explain it is a fictional creature and not bad salami like it sounds.

Plot

  • This section is alright.

Development

  • "For example" - Move this sentence before the previous one. This will make things more logical.
  • "new dialogue was recorded for Mysteries of the Sith's scenario" - I know what your trying to say, but some readers may get confused. Try rewording to emphasize stock audio recordings from Dark Forces were not used because new audio was recorded.

Reception

  • "The game has been described as a good..." - This sentence is a bit awkward. Especially when it gets to the "could also use improvement" bit. Try rewording, summarizing the section, but making it flow.
  • "This adversely affects the gameplay" - Is this a quote? If it is, it needs quotations. If it isnt, it needs to be reworded and sound less like fact and more like an opinion.
  • "General aspects of the gameplay were seen as improvements" - This sentence sounds like its referring to many people, but it has one ref. Please emphasize Adrenaline Vault who thought this.
  • "The multiplayer side of Mysteries of the Sith was received positively" - Again, a general statement is made but only IGN is saying it. Please reword any other instances of this problem.
  • "but did not escape criticism" - This is POV, please reword.

References

  • Who is the Adrenaline Vault and why are they noteworthy and reliable?

Conclusion

This is a good article with some minor quirks. The article could use a copy-edit and requires attention be given general statements that are attributable to one source. I thank you for your hard work and hope you find my comments helpful. I look forward to reading this article again in the future. Cheers, -- Noj r (talk) 06:43, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Kyle in MotS[edit]

Does anyone know why Kyle's outfit is black in Mysteries of the Sith? He is similar to Dark Kyle. Big King (talk) 16:51, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I've never come across any specific reason. I think it was simply a new style for the character. --Bill (talk|contribs) 20:21, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
We wanted to leave it vague as to which path he had taken in Jedi Knight (dark or light) since MOTS only has one path. In this case it was just "What looks coolest?" - Richfife (talk) 00:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Hidden level[edit]

Hi! Can someone please tell me how to access the hidden level in this game? What needs to be done? Otherwise we have to remove the hidden level from the main article if this is only a cheat. Morgan Katarn (talk) 12:09, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Dark Kyle in MotS[edit]

Why the hell do you play Dark Kyle in Mysteries of the Sith? 193.171.250.58 (talk) 17:53, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Look two sections up... - Richfife (talk) 19:31, 17 October 2012 (UTC)