Talk:Steam Machine (hardware platform)

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Redirect[edit]

Currently "steam machine" redirects to steam engine with no disambiguation to here. I presume it should lead straight here, maybe with disambiguation towards steam engine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.145.154.140 (talk) 12:25, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, there is a hatnote on steam engine that points to here; I know since I put it there (and just checked to see that it is). Given that I'm not sure if this will be the name Valve will stick with, it doesn't make sense to disrupt the more historical "steam machine" ==> "steam engine" which is the much more common use of the term. --MASEM (t) 14:00, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
I think there's a good case to be made for giving this article at least equal priority to 'steam engine'. I've personally never heard the term 'steam machine' in reference to steam engines. It's not a term on wiktionary. I presume it's obscure or archaic. I think far more people searching for 'steam machine' are looking for this article rather than 'steam engine'. As Valve is calling these things 'Steam Machines' in all of their communications, I don't think we can really presume that's going to change.--109.148.173.167 (talk) 22:29, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

I guess there should be a disambiguation page for all the links in the header..?--86.130.30.159 (talk) 23:58, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Plural?[edit]

Why is it "Steam Machines is"? It's definitely plural, as it refers to several different devices.--86.130.30.159 (talk) 23:58, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

It's a brand name. Mind you, I think this is a US-vs-UK issue (like "The Beatles are" or "The Beatles is"). I'll check on that. --MASEM (t) 00:39, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
If the plural is actually the brand name, shouldn't the article be moved to Steam Machines? — Reatlas (talk) 08:23, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, that's a problem, as I see "Steam Machine" used to describe one of them. I'm going to rewrite it as singular. --MASEM (t) 15:05, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
Actually, the lead sentence is fine, so I just made it "Steam Machines are...". --MASEM (t) 15:12, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
I think the title needs to be singular, even though there will be many different Steam Machines, elsewhere on Wikipedia titles are normally singular, e.g. Bicycle and many others. --Danrok (talk) 14:26, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
Unless it's a proper name, such as Micro Machines. -- ferret (talk) 15:48, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
Except we're not talking about the title, we're talking about how it's referred to in the article. The Wikipedia article Bicycle does not start with "Bicycle is". The title should be Steam Machine, but as 'Steam Machine' does not refer to a single piece of technology but rather a range of different consoles, and considering Valve has always referred to the concept as "Steam Machines", never "the Steam Machine", the article should definitely be written to reflect this.--86.167.177.238 (talk) 20:20, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Steam Controller as its own article[edit]

The Xbox 360 Controller, for example, has its own page. I believe it's important enough to warrant being separated from Steam Machines. Thoughts?

Nicereddy (talk) 06:43, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

The bulk of the 360 controller article is the various versions that are out there. There is presently only one design for the Steam controller, so whatever there is about its development works here, particularly since on the rest of the hardware, we're not going to have dedicated specs. --MASEM (t) 06:46, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
This article [1] might help on the controller article, though I would wait to make it until the actual final, LCD-touchscreen controller is available, mid-this year, to make it. --MASEM (t) 23:14, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
I'd agree with waiting until it is out in its final form Samwalton9 (talk) 00:11, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Console vs PC[edit]

Too many ppl editing warring over this. The Steam machine is a personal computer. A console is also a personal computer, though sold in way that is standardized and prevents the user from customizing it as much as a typical PC. There are some vendors that are planning a standardized Steam Machine that will be treated as a console, but the overall concept of a Steam Machine is a personal computer. --MASEM (t) 16:49, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I'd say that Steam Machines would generally have a single purpose of playing games, as a console would. While a personal computer is multi-use, and gaming is just one of them. Although, it would be nice to have official sourcing by Valve, of course. But they seem to have succeeded in avoiding the usage of both terms, and just call it a "machine" or "hardware" or "box". Blake (Talk·Edits) 00:50, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
Shouldn't we abstain from using 'console' until this is clarified? History of video game consoles (eighth generation) last lead paragraph contradicts this article. « Ryūkotsusei » 19:58, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
There's also an issue with attaching it to the 8th Generation, since with upgradabilility in mind and off the shelf PC parts, there is no "generation" of Steam Machines. It's a moving sliding window much like any PC. The "8th generation" is simply when it makes it debut timeframe wise. -- ferret (talk) 22:14, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Image request[edit]

Would somebody with access to the beta version hardware be willing to take a high resolution picture, crop it and put it up? DARTHBOTTO talkcont 20:25, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Many beta hardware users on reddit's /r/steam post occasionally. See if you can find them and message them. Try these two I found after a quick look around: AteByte and swim711crazy Nicereddy (talk) 23:54, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
We also now have several on display at CES though how open that is, I dunno. [2]. --MASEM (t) 01:16, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Daft Punk[edit]

Why no disambiguation link to Daft Punks steam machine? 115.188.135.11 (talk) 07:37, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

To be honest, the disamb is excessive already. -- ferret (talk) 13:26, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: RESULT. Consensus is clearly to move. Moved and disambig/redirect pages created. MASEM (t) 03:18, 27 January 2014 (UTC)



Steam MachineSteam Machine (consoles) – Confusion between Steam engine and machine Vaypertrail (talk) 11:15, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

I think a Steam machine (disambiguation) is really needed at this point, and this page moved to Steam Machine (consoles). I've already noticed lots of links to this article when they are talking about the steam engine.--Vaypertrail (talk) 11:15, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Oppose move, but agree on a disambiguation page since there's more than a handful, which this would point to. "Steam Machine" as a common name is clearly going to be the Valve hardware concept. (Google: "steam machine" valve 5.3 M hits; "steam machine" "daft punk" 260k hits). --MASEM (t) 14:49, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
Also to note, while "Steam machine" can be a name for a steam-engine based device, that's differing by casing, which is acceptable for differentiation in name. --MASEM (t) 14:51, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
Steam machine is another common name for a steam engine (water vapor) and valve's are part of them, so obviously you are going to get several million hits for that search. I think you are using google search incorrectly, my results were:
Steam (Valve Machines)
  • "steam machine" "valve corporation" - 26,800
  • "steam machine" "gabe newell" - 168,000
  • "steam machine" "valve software" - 41,400
Steam (water vapor power)
  • "steam machine" "Industrial Revolution" - 203,000
  • "steam machine" "boiler" - 1,300,000
  • "steam machine" "locomotive" - 309,000
  • "steam machine" "Human After All" "Television Rules the Nation" "daft punk" - 1,970,000
See WP:RECENT.--Vaypertrail (talk) 15:46, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
Most people in the industry don't call Valve "Valve Corporation". So if go to "'steam machine' computer" I get 8.7M hits, "'steam machine' gaming" 23.6M hits. So yes, it is still the more common name. --MASEM (t) 15:58, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
Please stop mentioning results of common terms, steam machines have been used with computers since computers existed, and 'gaming' has multiple unrelated meanings. "steamos" "steam machine" "valve" - 794,000.
As you can see from https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=steam+machine the term became common in publications when the Steam engine was invented during the Industrial Revolution.--Vaypertrail (talk) 16:32, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
The "Steam machine" / "Steam Machine" is not an issue; we allow pages that are different by casing (and when I created this page, "steam machine" is just a redirect to "steam engine". The question is what other uses of "Steam Machine" (all caps) come into play, and it's clear that the Valve unit is the most common term of the all-caps version, moreso than anything else (certainly more than the Daft Punk song). There is the issue that the words "steam machine" are related to the other things currently in the hatnote like steam cleaning, etc., but they aren't proper terms there. As such, this page should stay where it is, with a specific disambiguation to Steam engine to talk about "steam machines", and with all other users groupped at a Steam machine (disambiguation). --MASEM (t) 18:38, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Support – It's a recent and relatively minor use (as a quick book search shows), and we usually don't settle for disambiguation by capitalization alone. Dicklyon (talk) 18:41, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Support steaming machines, steam cookers, steam clothes presses/irons, steam engines are all quite likely, more so than a new game relatively obscure game console (and even as a game console is more likely to refer to the nVidia Shield) -- 70.50.148.122 (talk) 04:36, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
    • Uh, no, the entire gaming and computer industry is watching what develops with Steam Machines, and it's not going to be like the Shield since there's multiple vendors. --MASEM (t) 18:36, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
      • No, the entire game industry is looking at the XB1vPS4 battle and whether tablets will usher in the death of consoles; Steam Machine is like the Oyua, something of an outlier. Most Steam games won't even run on a Steam Machine, since it isn't Windows. And the most prominent Steam device is the Shield, so garners much of the current buyer attention for Steam devices. -- 70.50.148.122 (talk) 04:23, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Support some move (since the Daft Punk song is obvious primary); but i'm not sure what the thing is
    Steam Machine (hardware platform)??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.175.135 (talk) 15:54, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
    • There's no way the Daft Punk song is the primary use of Steam Machine since there's not even a separate article for it, and this is proven false by the google hit count. --MASEM (t) 18:35, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Support move and put a disambiguation page at "Steam Machine". Keep Steam machine pointing to steam engine (and make sure to list that on the disambiguation page). Red Slash 17:23, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

With discussion in the above "Console vs PC" going nowhere. Are we certain all Steam Machines are consoles? That is what this rename is implying. « Ryūkotsusei » 03:18, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

They aren't consoles, or at least certainly they all won't be consoles since a user can create their own. That said, there is some term that could go in "Steam Machine (X)" if it is decided that we have to move this page from "Steam Machine" (non disambiguatied), but "consoles" is not the right one. "computer hardware", "computer", etc. might be more suitable. --MASEM (t) 03:49, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
They are all supposedly STBs (set top boxes). They are boxes that connect to the TV set; all TV videogame consoles are STBs. VCRs, DVD players are STBs. -- 70.50.148.122 (talk) 04:20, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
But there's no requirement for them to connect to a TV set either, though Valve targets them for the living room. -- ferret (talk) 12:29, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
There's no requirement to connect your XBox to a TV either; many people connected VCRs to another VCR as a dubbing setup. -- 70.50.148.122 (talk) 05:41, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
Consoles are generally designed to be a fixed (as in, a locked-down hardware design) computer unit. The Steam Machine concept is meant to encourage open hardware and end-user modification, so this is the farest thing from a console as possible. --MASEM (t) 16:01, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
Several consoles have been adaptable, such as the original XBox which many people hacked, replacing parts at will because it was just a PC stuffed into a console format. The PS2 and PS3 had Linux editions, and homebrew games. The Sega Genesis was notorious for all its add-ons (Sega CD, Sega 32X, etc). Some of the Google MiniPCs are upgradable boxes instead of sticks, and those are STBs. -- 70.50.148.122 (talk) 05:41, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
Xbox: keyword "hack" as opposed to "encourage open hardware and end-user modification". Sega consoles: locked-down hardware design with add-ons specific to that manufacturer. Sony: hardware is still locked-down. I think moving this to something like "Steam Machine (hardware platform)" is broad enough to cover all bases if its up to the manufacturer to create a console or PC. « Ryūkotsusei » 16:20, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
"Hardware platform" works too given that the concept allows uses to create their own Steam Machines by building one that meets the required specifications. --MASEM (t) 16:29, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm OK with "(hardware platform)" or "(game platform)" or "(hack)" or whatever you all decide. Dicklyon (talk) 20:59, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
I ditto Dicklyon. Any disambiguator is alright with me. Red Slash 00:53, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

←)Masem, although you're quite involved, do you mind moving this and closing the discussion? « Ryūkotsusei » 02:42, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, it's reasonable clear which way the concensus is here. --MASEM (t) 03:09, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.