Talk:Stenka Razin

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Biography (Rated Start-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 
WikiProject Russia / History / Military (Rated Start-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia.
To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the history of Russia task force.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the Russian, Soviet, and CIS military history task force.
 
WikiProject Military history (Rated Start-Class)
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality assessment scale.
WikiProject Piracy (Rated Start-class)
WikiProject icon This article lies in the latitude of WikiProject Piracy, a crew of scurvy editors bound to sharpen up all Wikipedia's piracy-related articles. If you want to ship with us and help improve this and other Piracy-related articles, lay aboard the project page and sign on for a berth.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 
WikiProject Songs (Rated Start-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
 
Note icon
This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the |auto= parameter.

Song lyrics[edit]

Um... I don't see the "Stenka Razin song" as being very relevant to the article itself... It is not a song that is extraordinarily popular or well-known in Russia.

how can you possibly speak for the whole Russia, past and present? mikka (t) 20:07, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Something is seriously wrong with the translation of the stenka razin song.

So, you have never seen any tranlsations of verse? They are always inexact. YOu have to match the rhythm and rhyme. The meaning is preserved only vaguely. mikka (t) 00:54, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Stenka Razin always been (and still is) one of the most well known and popular songs in Russia. Fisenko 03:44, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes..I'm not undervaluating your work, I'm just saying you made a few mistakes. The order of the verses is mixed: translation of the 3rd russian verse cannot be found. The 4th russian verse is consistent with the 3rd english, the 5th russian with 4th english (and so on) and the 10th english verse is not consistent with any of the russian verses. So the biggest problem I see are the 3rd russian and the 10th english verse being an orphans.

The next inconsistency is as follows. On the bottom of the page, this text is written: "It is one of the few Russian folk songs still remembered, and popular as a drinking song, the culmination being, of course:

And he hurls her overboard Right into the surging wave... "

This exact phrase cannot be found in the translation. I know, the meaning is the same, only written with different words (And has cast her where the waters/Of the Volga roll and sigh), but anyway..lack of consistency is preventing this article from being great. Leonr 16:16, 27 November 2005 (UTC+1)

Yes the song is messed up. Let us hope that is can be properly sequenced.

I fixed up the sequencing, and took out a verse which wasn't in the version I learned or ever heard (I tried to preserve it to put here on the talk page, but something ate it meanwhile. Oh well, it's in the history.) Is this version known to be the original as written, because there are quite a few minor differences to the way I learned it, e.g. "Sten'ki Razina chelny' rather than "ostrogrudnye chelny" (for some reason I can't type in Cyrillic right now).
I also agree that the so-called 'English version' leaves something to be desired. I've never really seen the point of trying to rewrite songs rather than translate them carefully. Most people are either not going to sing it at all, or they'll sing the original even if they don't speak the language. But if they read the English, presumably it's so they can find out what the song actually says! Katzenjammer 23:22, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


I wrote the french article for Stenka Razine, which is (i think) more complete. Do you want that I translate it?

Shouldn't the song have a separate page? (Msrasnw (talk) 22:45, 13 May 2008 (UTC))

"To his piercing jet black eyes" - I don't believe I see any black eyes mentioned in the Russian original. --194.72.81.141 (talk) 10:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

"not a song that is extraordinarily popular or well-known in Russia"? Mikkalai, you must be joking. It is in tons of folk music compilations and many films. It's very well known. Or at least was until recently (I can't speak for the present situation as I don't live there).

In reply to all the complaints about the "artistic license" of the English translation, perhaps it would make sense to also add a completely literal, non-rhyming English translation or each line? Esn (talk) 02:25, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I sang the English version of this song at my primary school in the seventies. I found this article by typing in the first stanza, the only one I could remember in full. So, at least for me, the song (and I suppose its translation too) was important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.222.184.132 (talk) 09:09, 14 February 2011 (UTC)


I would like to know if there is a scientific reference to the song's origin, where it stems from etc. The German robber song parody "Butter Räuber von Halberstadt" is sung to the same melody and you find it e.g. in a 1863 collection. The moritat genre is quite generic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arebenti (talkcontribs) 21:18, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Flowery language[edit]

Some of the passages here seem a bit flowery. Now, personally, I don't mind that, and I'm not a fan of the seeming tendency to declare anything that is not bland and matter-of-fact as "unencyclopaedic". However, there is one line that goes too far, to the point of being difficult to parse: "Stenka Razin, as he was generally called, had now become a potentate with whom princes did not disdain to treat". I presume that what the double negatives and old-fashioned language are saying is simply "... he had become powerful and influential enough that princes were prepared to negotiate with him", but it took a couple of re-readings to get that, so it should probably be rewritten. Wardog (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:09, 17 August 2011 (UTC).

Why Styenka (Stenka)[edit]

Styenka (Stenka) in Russian means wall. It's symbolic. Something on the lines of "Stonewall" Jackson. A reference to this in the main body might be relevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SBader (talkcontribs) 04:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC)