Talk:Superman

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Merger proposal[edit]

Do we really need to have two separate pages, one for Clark Kent and the other for Superman? Not much into comic books personally, but Bruce Wayne redirects to Batman, among other examples. Outside of comics, Anakin Skywalker redirects to Darth Vader. (They were once two separate pages.) I know there's been several different characters playing Robin, and it should stay that way. But there is one Superman. Jgera5 (talk) 03:29, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

If there is enough well-referenced and cited content in the Clark Kent article, there is no reason for a merge. They can be discussed as two related but independent subjects. || Tako (bother me) || 14:03, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
Look at the size of the Superman article and the Clark Kent article... if you merge them, it will be a huge article... I'm agree with Tako. Arussom (talk) 15:16, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
The two pages, arguably, deal with the same subject. A merger would mean that repeated information could be cut over all content would not be as huge as it currently is. Taking a look at sizes we see that, at 113,367 bytes, Superman ranks at 5813 in terms of Wikipedia article length but it is still amongst the longest superhero articles. Batman, inclusive of Bruce Wayne, has 117,151 bytes. At the moment the clearest indication on the Superman page that there even is a Clark Kent page is in the merge proposal box. If this were removed then people conducting general research into superheros might easily miss all the external Clark Kent information. Different aspects of subject information could be discussed in independent but related sections on the same page in a similar way as is done for other superheros on Wikipedia. Gregkaye (talk) 08:32, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
As a very longtime comic book fan, I have no problem with Superman and Clark Kent having separate articles. Clark Kent has a much richer and more detailed background than any other superhero's alter ego, with the arguable exception of Peter Parker. In addition, he is the only one to have had his own long-running series. "The Private Life of Clark Kent," which featured stories involving Clark in which he never changed into his Superman identity, ran as a recurring backup feature from 1972 to 1982. An attempt to create a similar feature for Bruce Wayne in the late 1970s lasted a mere two issues. Not to mention that Clark is significant enough to have his own logo. WaxTadpole (talk) 19:43, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Possible format for a merger

At the moment the table of contents for the Superman article reads:

1 Publication history ... 2 Fictional character biography 2.1 Age and birthday 2.2 Personality 2.3 Other versions 3 Powers and abilities 4 Supporting cast 4.1 Enemies 5 Cultural impact ...

This might be adapted as follows:

1 Publication history ... 2 Character Origins and Identities 2.1 Age and birthday 2.2 Kal-El 2.3 Clark Kent (early years) 2.4 Superman 3 Fictional character biography 3.1 Personality 3.2 Other versions 4 Powers and abilities 5 Weaknesses 6 Clark Kent (dual identity) ... 7 Clark Kent in other media ... 8 Supporting cast ... 9 Cultural impact ...

The wording of titles may be up for debate but additions might work as follows:

2.3 Clark Kent (early years) <would mainly come from Clark Kent, 1 Overview>

5 Weaknesses <would come from Superman, the last paragraph of Powers and abilities>

6 Clark Kent (dual identity) <would come from Clark Kent, 2 Secret Identity and would include the following subsections:>

6.1 Security of identity 6.2 Identity change 6.3 Debate over true identity

7 Clark Kent in other media <would all come from Clark Kent, 3 In other media with the following subsections:>

7.1 The Adventures of Superman radio series (1940-1951) 7.2 Kirk Alyn film serials (1948-1950) 7.3 Adventures of Superman TV series (1952-1958) 7.4 Christopher Reeve films (1978-1987) and Superman Returns (2006) 7.5 Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman (1993-1997) 7.6 Smallville TV series (2001-2011) 7.7 Animated series 7.8 Man of Steel (2013)

We can also note that the name Superman appears 185 times in the Clark Kent article, the name Clark Kent appears 25 times in the Superman article and perhaps suprisingly the birth name of the character, "Kal-El", appears just 16 times in the Clark Kent article and a mere 5 times in the Superman article <and more on that below>.

Sure, any merger that was to happen should be into a "Superman" article but perhaps it would be helpful to envisage this as a merger of the two alter-egos of Kal-el.

Gregkaye (talk) 10:13, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

  • The question should be, is Clark Kent a separate topic from Superman. Years ago there was a discussion over whether the aphorism, "There is a sucker born every minute", with proponents of deletion asserting that "everyone knew" this phrase was coined by PT Barnum. In fact Barnum experts don't believe Barnum coined the phrase, he merely didn't challenge it being credited to him. During this debate I spent a couple of hours, and I studied how the phrase was used.

    I found close to half of the instances of articles that used the phrase, never referenced Barnum, at all. I argued that since the phrase had an independent life from Barnum it would be a grave disservice to redirect it to Barnum, just because some lazy writers incorrectly believed Barnum coined the phrase.

    I suggest the same holds true of Clark Kent. As this google book search illustrates, people discuss the "Clark Kent" personality type independently of Superman. Similarly a google search on "Clark Kent glasses" or a google book search demonstrates that the character of Clark Kent has enough independent notability that many works of fiction refer to the glasses characters wear as "Clark Kent glasses" -- without any references to Superman, at all.

    Therefore I am strongly opposed to merging Clark Kent with Superman. Geo Swan (talk) 23:10, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Possibly wrong first appearance date in Summary[edit]

In the section "Publication information" it says that Action Comics #1 was released in 1938. The same date is mentioned in the Action Comics #1 article itself. The summary says the Publish date was 1939. 80.238.199.41 (talk) 10:52, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that. DonQuixote (talk) 11:13, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

"superhuman intelligence"? bullshit![edit]

The superman I know, has about average-human intelligence, and for comparison, can in no way can match up to the intelligence of his friend Batman !! which supposedly possesses "Genius-level intellect" (although i could argue that Batman has superhuman intelligence himself ;p ) - Unless someone can provide some good references claiming that Superman posesses Superhuman intelligence, i'll remove it.. Divinity76 (talk) 09:19, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

In the Silver Age, Superman regularly invented fantastic machines, including the robots that serve him in the Fortress of Solitude. Remember, these powers are for all incarnations, not just the most recent. Euchrid (talk) 09:29, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
His brain must at least be able to process information at super-human speed given the speed of his reactions. Whereas it would take a typical postgrad about 4 years to knock out a Phd Superman could probably read all the relevant literature and knock out one in a few hours. Given that he attends lots of emergency situations I would be surprised if he hadn't boned up on the medical field and had the advanced medical knowledge of at least a junior doctor. He could speak Russian in Superman 4 too, so it makes sense he would learn most of the languages on the planet given his vocation. Betty Logan (talk) 09:42, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
Sounds more like superhuman knowledge than superhuman intelligence, though to Divinity's question, Superman isn't a detective as he just tends to bash things, so his intelligence would be different to Batman's anyway. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 09:47, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
If superpowers have to be from all time periods, as said by Euchrid, then it's not enough if those powers were used in the Silver Age, they should still be used in the modern day. If authors stopped using them decades ago, then they should not be listed. Cambalachero (talk) 19:00, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
That would contravene WP:RECENTISM. We wouldn't exclude a power on the basis it isn't used any more for the same reason we wouldn't exclude a power that has been only introduced only recently i.e. it would prevent encyclopedic coverage of the topic. Betty Logan (talk) 20:48, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps I wasn't clear - we list the powers from all time periods. Not all powers have to be in every time period. We need a full coverage of the topic, not just the most recent version. Imagine if the Sherlock Holmes article only talked about the Benedict Cumberbatch version, for example, or the whole Doctor Who article was wiped every time he regenerated? Euchrid (talk) 21:28, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

As opposed to which other Superman?[edit]

Superman is the superhero persona of a fictional character that appears in comic books published by DC Comics, and is considered an American cultural icon.[1][2][3][4] The Superman character described on this page was created by writer Jerry Siegel and artist Joe Shuster, high school students living in Cleveland, Ohio, in 1933; the character was sold to Detective Comics, Inc. (later DC Comics) in 1938.[5][6] Superman first appeared in Action Comics #1 (June 1938) and subsequently appeared in various radio serials, television programs, films, newspaper strips, and video games. With the success of his adventures, Superman helped to create the superhero genre and establish its primacy within the American comic book.[1]

Within the context, the bold phrase seems either unnecessary or requiring greater explanation. 86.128.5.177 (talk) 21:01, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the catch. It'll be corrected. DonQuixote (talk) 21:18, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
As opposed to the Ubermensch.Semeion (talk) 14:51, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Strange[edit]

Perhaps one of the oddest issues of Superman comics is number 19 (Nov-Dec 1941). In the first story he fights newspaper comic characters. In the second there is a dream sequence (revealed after the dream) where Lois discovers his secret identity and he goes into another dimension and accidentally kills Lois. The reason for the dream is not explained other than that some rocks fell on him, and that never bothered Superman before. The last story has Clark taking Lois to see a Superman cartoon where he has to stop her seeing Clark on screen changing into Superman, though obviously everyone else in the movie theatre saw it. The first story in the next issue 20 (Jan-Feb 1942) has Lois print a joke copy of a newspaper revealing Clark is Superman but through a mix up it goes into national circulation and everybody knows Clark is Superman. In that issue, Hitler starts appearing, but no Japanese villains. Although America was in the war in December 1941, comics were printed 3-6 months early to give retailers a chance to sell them by their cover date so they were not at war when #20 was printed.(84.236.152.71 (talk) 20:09, 7 November 2014 (UTC))

Hi, it's unclear if/what you are proposing. Article talk pages are for discussing improvements to the article, not for general discussion about the subject. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:36, 7 November 2014 (UTC)