Talk:Sutton Hoo

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Former good article nominee Sutton Hoo was a History good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Two images[edit]

Agreed that both images can be used, and walking around Sutton Hoo last January was both atmospheric and uninformative, so I think the new image works. See similar images here and here to use if if think they are better. --Amitchell125 (talk) 15:50, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

No, the one used seems best. Johnbod (talk) 16:21, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Proposal to split the article[edit]

Support. The Sutton Hoo treasures need to be discussed more fully (much has been written by experts that is not yet included in the article), and the article as it currently stands would become very large if a deal more discussion was added. If the treasures were described in a more summarised form, the balance of the whole article would be improved, especially if other aspects of Sutton Hoo were expanded (for instance, the history of the Kingdom of the East Angles during this period, or a more detailed discussion of the candidates for the person buried/commemorated under Mound 1). --Amitchell125 (talk) 17:28, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Oppose You should make a specific proposal, but what you are arguing for above is more detailed subsidiary articles on the "treasures", retaining the existing depth of coverage here. This is not a split, & obviously is fine. If anything is too detailed here, & should be split, it is the dig history, imo. Nor would I support more history here. Johnbod (talk) 13:48, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
  • Support. Good idea. The current article is too large for a general encyclopaedia, so any attempt to reduce the content by splitting off into sub-articles is well worth considering. I also agree that the treasures could be written about in more detail, and that possibility is not provided for in this article. Articles on individual items could be considered further down the line if any section in Sutton Hoo treasures grew large enough, though having a detailed and expansive over view of the treasures would always be of value. SilkTork ✔Tea time 20:53, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
  • Support Mound 1 should, at the very least, have its own article. All the best, Rich Farmbrough, 00:01, 26 March 2014 (UTC).

Beowulf[edit]

"The ship-burial has from the time of its discovery prompted comparisons with the world described in the heroic Old English poem Beowulf, which is set in southern Sweden. It is in that region, especially at Vendel, that close archaeological parallels to the ship-burial are found, both in its general form and in details of the military equipment that the burial contains." etc pp - This seems to be false, afaik Beowulf is set in Denmark. --95.118.90.187 (talk) 10:35, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

But Beowulf is one of Geats, from Sweden, and much of the original Danish territory is now in Sweden. Maybe we should say that, or fudge the issue, but I'd wait for an expert to do it. Johnbod (talk) 15:21, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
"heroic Old English poem Beowulf, which is set in southern Sweden. It is in that region, especially at Vendel, that close archaeological parallels to the ship-burial are found, both in its general form and in details of the military equipment that the burial contains." It is worth noting that Beowulf is set in Geatland, but Vendel lies in the Svealand region which is the region around lake Mälaren in Sweden. It seems as if most ship-burials similar to the Sutton Hoo site were discovered in the historical province of Uppland in the Svealand region, not in Geatland. Burial sites include Vendel, Valsgärde, Tuna near Alsike, and Ultuna near Uppsala. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.150.249.171 (talk) 18:01, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Intro[edit]

The intro is too long. Ben Finn (talk) 17:39, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Cenotaph or tomb?[edit]

We are far too categorical about the nature of Mound 1. While it is certainly true that phosphate deposits were found, and that Chapter 8 of Bruce-Mitford's mammoth 3 volume work came to the conclusion that these were the human remains of the "subject" of the mound, a review of the book, in Anglo Saxon England concluded that "there is no evidence to support the contention that a human body was ever buried in this ship."

A 2004 review in Physics Methods in Archaeometry comes closer to the burial hypotheses calling the phosphate found near the spear-tip "strong evidence" for a grave.

We have to recall, of course, that even relatively lowly burials could included substantial amounts of meat, and animals - as in mound 17, and indeed the other patch of phosphate in Mound 1 is put down to decayed bone artifacts. The absence of horses or dogs, and the lack of intimate items associated with any buried corpse (personal jewellery, clasps, buckles etc.) and in particular shroud rings, are cited among other reasons to doubt the grave theory.

All the best, Rich Farmbrough, 00:23, 26 March 2014 (UTC).

??!!! The "personal jewellery, clasps, buckles etc." in the burial are the most famous items! Johnbod (talk) 02:41, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
By personal items, or personalia, in this context is meant items from the burial clothes, which should have been found in the body space. I don't have access to a plan of the mound, showing the locations of the phosphate and the various grave goods, but the burial chamber was in the centre, the gold and silver items and regalia were at the aft, the cooking items etc, in the prow. All the best, Rich Farmbrough, 17:48, 29 March 2014 (UTC).
You said "personal jewellery", and the set here are supremely that. Not being on the body might be part of the compromise between pagan and Xtian burial practices, about which it is tricky to say anything. The coverage we have is consistent with that of the RS. Johnbod (talk) 19:08, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
This may be old news, but FWIW etc., A. C. Evans (1986 – see bibliography), p. 102, says:

... although only very small levels of residual phosphates survived a difference did exist between the levels inside and outside the burial chamber, which confirmed that there was a major source of phosphate in the grave; unfortunately it is not possible to tell whether the source was human or animal. ... [C]onfirmation of this phenomenon from other Anglo-Saxon sites and modern Scandinavian excavations suggests that the interpretation of the ship-grave as an inhumation is the most probable.

Nortonius (talk) 19:04, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Saxons are from Saxony. Why don't you go to a german webiste and find your Germanic tribes http://www.sachsen.de/en/276.htm[edit]

Please fix Germania, Germaina Magna it's clearly shown that many Czech towns where part of Germania Magna and please look at the mountain ranges on the maps, Swiss alps, tatra mountains, Sudetes. Even Olomouc over in the North east of the Czech Republic had two different latin names (Iuliomontium,Roman fort (Mons Iulii). Also its a fact the the Blucina Sword from 5th century was found near Brno and from a germanic king. Czech cities located in Germanina Magna taken from Ptolemy's maps 2nd century AD located in present day Czech Republic. Furgisatis u České Budějovice, Meliodunum in the sand, Strevinta for Hříměždic to the West of Sedlčany, Casurgis is Prague, Redintuinum u Loun, Nomisterium in Litoměřice, Hegetmatia in Mladá Boleslav, Budorgis in Cologne, Coridorgis in Jihlava, Eburum u Hrádku is Znojmo, Parienna in Breclav, Eburodunum is Brno, Setuia at Komořan near Vyškov, Felicia is Vyškova, Asanca is Kojetína, Carredunum is Rýmařov I have supplyed many links below to verify.

Atilla the Hun never went through Czech lands. Do your own research he went up the Danube ( Germany, Austria) and the Rhine West Germany, France) and he was killed in France(Gaul) in 454AD. Also its a fact that the Blucina Sword from 5th century was found near Brno(Latin:Eburodunum) and was from a Germanic king. Two gold Germanic swords of the same type have been found in present day central Germany located in Pleidelsheim and Villingendorf. Look at the links above and make your own opinion. And then decide if an Americian writer(Note: Americia was and will always be a former British and English colony)who wrote a 20th century book about European history when he or she has never ever been to Europe. Note Americia did not exist in the middle ages only native Indians lived there before 15th century. Casurgis from Australia is watching 12.07.2014 And yes I am part English. The Mythicial Saxons are from here:http://www.sachsen.de/en/276.htm and:http://www.sachsen-anhalt.de/lang/english/history-politics/history/ . You still believe that there was a mass migration??. All your old documents from 5th century in Britannia where in Latin and you where mostly Christians. Germania Magna where Pagans as even your Danish vikings were:http://denmark.dk/en/society/history/ to the late 10th century. Remember your King Alfre in 8th century went to Rome to be crowned king. Forgive me i was not taught this at school but at least I am capable to still learn and educate myself. Thou knows nothing!. Casurgis out — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.32.240.50 (talk) 02:21, 12 July 2014 (UTC)