Talk:Tengrism

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I have doubts that Tengriism is a Shamanism based blief system. As far as I know Tengriism existed in between Turks before Shamanism arrived to Central Asia. Before the mix with Shamanism Tengriism or the old Turkish Religion was like a Monoteistic blief system. Please check: Jean Paul Roux La religion des Turcs et des Mongols, ed. Payot, 1984. (translated into Turkish) Tengriteg

Thats right. I know this book, and some others of Jean Paul Rox. But i've wrote this article before i read his books. The Tengrism articles in german and turkish wikipedia has already the correct version, but i forgat to change this one. "Shamanism based belief" is not correct, i'm changing it jet. ---Erdal 08:51, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Suggested merge with Tengri

I am sorry, since when have we, on Wikipedia, voted about having an article instead of, you know, writing the article? Of course there can be a "Tengriism" article if somebody can write it. So far, nobody has. There is no valid content here apart from what is already at Tengri. Write an article about "Tengriism" as a topic, and nobody is going to merge it anywhere. Just complaining that there "should" be such an article is not helpful. --dab (𒁳) 10:07, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

so, after some research, it turns out that this is a very intersting topic of a kind of Kyrgyz neopaganism which developed since 2005. There have been sources on it since 2006. There were no such sources in 2005.

I find it a bit disheartening that there are about eight people discussing and voting on this article, but apparently not a single one was willing to sit down and do the research necessary to actually write it. This is, of course, a problem endemic to Wikipedia. --dab (𒁳) 12:45, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Can anyone add Turkish and Mongolian spellings...?

Can anyone add Turkish and Mongolian spellings on the religion's name? For example: "Turkish: Tengricilik, Mongolian: ????"

belief of Hungarians?

Hungarians (Magyars) are not Turks nor are they descended from them or the theorized Turko-Mongol orbit, so I'm removing reference to them as adherents of Tengriism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.0.209.200 (talk) 17:45, 19 March 2011 (UTC) Bulgarians are not turks as well, and there is no prove Musala and Perperikon were holy places or etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.97.138.142 (talk) 16:01, 11 September 2011 (UTC) Are you saying that Hungarians or Bulgarians were not Tengrists because they were not Turks? What is the relation between being a Turk and being a Tengrist? Race and religion are completely different things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.175.16.30 (talk) 17:35, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Flag of Turkey is a symbol of Tengriism?

The Flag of Turkey most likely is a symbol of Islam considering the caliphate which preceded it had the same flag.

96.55.183.132 (talk) 22:04, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

um, what caliphate? Have you considered reading Flag of Turkey? --dab (𒁳) 10:15, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

References

ok, so while Tengri is the article about the historical deity, apparently "Tengriism" has some relevance to modern ethnic (Pan-Turkic) nationalism in Central Asia. So this article could well, in principle, be about this topic. But somebody will need to write it. Sheesh. At present, the "references" people have come up with to support this topic look as follows:

^ http://books.google.com/books?id=I-RTt0Q6AcYC&pg=PA151&dq=hungarians+tengrism&hl=tr&ei=5dfbTfyDNsSUswbrr43wDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
^ http://books.google.com/books?id=I-RTt0Q6AcYC&pg=PA151&dq=huns+tengrism&hl=tr&ei=orPfTfP0FI33sgakhKXjBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=huns%20tengrism&f=false
^ Balkanlar'dan Uluğ Türkistan'a Türk halk inançları Cilt 1, Yaşar Kalafat, Berikan, 2007
^ http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=31177

this is a joke. Kindly focus on fixing this article based on quotable references, sticking to the narrow topic of "Tengriism", and refrain from making it a general florilegium about Turkic mythology, religion culture and nationalism. --dab (𒁳) 10:15, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Compare the above mess to the references as they look now after I have fixed this article (permanent link). You are welcome to expand the article futher, as long as you make sure that

• it stays strictly on topic, and does not devolve into an essay about shamanism or Turkic ethnic religion in general
• it remains based on quotable sources, and the sources are identified properly

--dab (𒁳) 12:42, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Unreferenced additions

User:Tirgil34 is apparently trying to add material to this article. Is it really too much to ask that you present your own references, properly formatted? Or do you naturally expect other people to do your work for you?

Your unreferenced additions do not require any discussion. Just cite your sources.

Concerning the points which you did attribute to some reference:

• http://books.google.com/books?id=j6lx-20TKMsC&pg=PA351&dq=tengrianism&hl=en&ei=da-uTYXtE8b5sgbct5zYDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=tengrianism&f=false
  • this is a valid reference, and I will do your job of formatting it properly and giving a summary of what it is saying. Please try to do this on your own next time. The reference you found is valid, but it needs proper citation, and then proper discussion. Your reference isn't a naked url, it is this: Шаманизм монгольского мира как выражение тенгрианской эзотерической традиции Центральной Азии ("Shamanism in the Mongolian world as an expression of the Tengrianist Esoteric Traditions of Central Asia"), Центрально-азиатский шаманизм: философские, исторические, религиозные аспекты. Материалы международного симпозиума, 20-26 июня 1996 г., Ulan-Ude (1996); English language discussion in Andrei A. Znamenski, Shamanism in Siberia: Russian records of indigenous spirituality, Springer, 2003, ISBN 9781402017407, 350-352. It was 20 minutes of work to figure this out properly. This would have been your work. You have no business revert-warring when instead you should just be pulling your own weight. See this diff for an example of how you could have handled your reference.
• also called Nestorianism by Christian devices" A.S. Amanjolov, History of ancient Türkic Script, Almaty 2003, p.305
  • what does this even mean? It is not comprehensible. What is a "Christian device", and why would it use "Nestorianism" for "Tengriism"? You seem to use "Tengriism" in a very wide meaning of "Asian shamanism". This is not what this article is about. If you want to discuss Mongolian shamanism, please go to Mongolian shamanism. If you want to insist on the "Christian devices", please explain what it means, and what exactly is being said on p. 305 of the book you are citing.
    • actually, please don't bother to go into the Amanjolov thing any futher. This is just a cranky website that keeps being brought up by Turkish nationalists. It doesn't have any value as a WP:RS.

--dab (𒁳) 08:58, 27 February 2012 (UTC)