It's important the article should mention that the Blitz happened because the RAF was bombing civilian areas in Germany from 31st March 1940. (MrFalala (talk) 14:15, 29 April 2013 (UTC))
- It would need some references from reliable sources for that. At the moment the body text, which is well-referenced, does not seem to support this view, so it would be odd and unreferenced to just put it in the lead in isolation. For the moment, please discuss it here and do not just revert to your preferred version - see WP:BRD. On BRD: you (or someone) were Bold, I Reverted, and now we are Discussing it. That's how it is meant to go, and leads to civilized collegiate editing: I very much hope that we will hear from other editors on this topic. To revert it again would not help the discussion and might start edging close to edit-warring, which would not be a great idea. :) Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 15:36, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- The Blitz happened because the Germans wanted to defeat Britain & thought this was the way to do it. It's not like Germany had bombed no cities before.... TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 04:37, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
- The RAF bombed Emden on 31st March 1940, and began bombing civilian homes in the Ruhr on 15th May 1940. It's important that the article should note the UK, which started the war in the first place, was bombing Germany long before the Blitz started. (MrFalala (talk) 11:17, 30 April 2013 (UTC))
- When you have reliable sources for that, why don't you bring them here to discuss? At the moment these just feel like assertions - surely there is some sourcing for them? All you've done so far is to repeat your previous assertion, and add that that the UK started the war. You can surely see that these are contentious and would need discussion here, and proper sources, to be included in the article. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 18:12, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
- "the UK, which started the war in the first place" Really? What part of Poland did the British invade 1 Sept '39? (And were there Jewish conspirators involved?) Are you genuinely so ill-informed? (Do you also believe FDR arranged Pearl Harbor?) If this is the best you've got, stop now. TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 22:29, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
- While the idea that the UK is the instigator of the war is delightfully odd, the OP does have a point - the article briefly alludes to the existence of earlier bombing (first para, "Change of strategy") but never explicitly mentions it. However, the official history does explicitly connect the August raids to the start of the Blitz, even if they weren't the sole reason:
- It would, of course, be too much to see in these raids on Berlin the whole cause of Hitler's next move; but they unquestionably added to his anger at the activities of Bomber Command. it would not be long now before D-day. What better policy, then, for this final phase, than to enjoy a swift and sweet revenge by hurling the Luftwaffe in force against London. For if the British capital could be reduced to chaos, the task of the invading armies would be enormously simplified (...) 'The British', he screeched, 'drop their bombs indiscriminately and without plan on civilian residential quarters and farms and villages. For three months I did not reply because I believed that they would stop, but in this Mr. Churchill saw a sign of our weakness. The British will know that we are now giving our answer night after night. We shall stop the handiwork of these night pilots.' Three days later, on 7th September, the Luftwaffe abandoned its offensive against the sector stations and began the assault on London. From the point of view of winning the battle, Dowding himself could not have made a more satisfactory decision. (pp. 182-183)
- Omitting to mention the British bombing through August, and the theories of a "revenge for Berlin" motive, seems a bit strange. Andrew Gray (talk) 22:47, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
- ♠I'm by no means suggesting it should be omitted, let alone actively redacted.
- ♠As I understand it, the issue isn't as simple as that. It appears it all started with a German bombing of the London docks which went astray. This led the Brits to attack Berlin & Hitler to retaliate.
- ♠So, who actually started it? TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 00:11, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
It wasn't just Germany that invaded Poland in September 1939. However, the fact is the RAF bombed Germany first, which is why the Blitz was ordered in retaliation. The introduction to this article is misleading. (MrFalala (talk) 14:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC))
- I restored your comment so that it can be countered, and the issue of it addressed. As has already been explained, at this point the war is between the UK and Germany. The USSR did invade Poland, but since the UK (and others) did not declare a state of war with the Soviets that is not a relevant argument, and German did invade Poland. The linkage between British bombing activities and the Blitz needs to be referenced to reliable sources. Finally just adding the same statement again and again is not-constructive, as you are not engaging in the discussion with reference to policy of sources. Further repeats can be removed as non-constructive. GraemeLeggett (talk) 17:23, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
- I just reverted the addition of text in the lead which blandly attributed the Blitz to being a response to British bombing. It doesn't reflect what the main article says which WP:LEAD would require, and doesn't have a source either. (Hohum @) 17:45, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
The UK chose the start World War II by only declaring war on Germany. The UK bombed Germany first, and Hitler ordered the Blitz because the RAF was bombing civilian areas in Germany beginning with Emden on 31st March 1940. (MrFalala (talk) 18:10, 1 May 2013 (UTC)) The Blitz was because Goering could not defeat the RAF in the Battle of Britain. It was intended to break the spirit of the British, so the populace would demand the goverment would sue for peace. 'The UK chose the start World War II by only declaring war on Germany' sounds very much like the propaganda Goebbels told the Polish. The British and French did all they could to avoid the war look at what happened with the Rhineland, Austria and Czechoslovakia. Bevo74 (talk) 18:46, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
- If I may be so bold, the origins of the war are undisputed and summarised thusly "Yes you did, you invaded Poland!". GraemeLeggett (talk) 18:50, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
The Blitz was in retaliation for the RAF bombing German civilians. The UK had no right to object to Germany and the Soviet Union invading Poland. The German government was not objecting to the British military presence in Palestine, Egypt, Malta, India, Hong Kong, Gibraltar, the Sudan etc. (MrFalala (talk) 18:52, 1 May 2013 (UTC))
- ♠"Hitler ordered the Blitz because the RAF was bombing civilian areas in Germany beginning with Emden" As I recall, Hitler didn't order the bombing of London (i.e., "the Blitz") until after the RAF bombed Berlin, which was after the docks bombing in error, so this is factually wrong.
- ♠"The UK chose the start World War II by only declaring war on Germany." The UK came to the defense of Poland after a German invasion. (That the UK didn't also declare war on the SU was a policy decision not germane here. I happen to think HMG should have declared war on the SU, too, but...)
- ♠"The UK had no right to object to Germany and the Soviet Union invading Poland." Really? The UK had a treaty of defense with Poland, a sovereign country.
- ♠"The German government was not objecting to the British military presence" Notice: all those places were part of the British Commonwealth, not sovereign countries that had been invaded. (Leave off how Britain invaded them decades before, won't you? And how the natives objected? I seriously doubt the Nazis had deep sympathy for Indians & Africans.)
- ♠This has the smell of trying to blame the British & exonerate the Germans. TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 19:20, 1 May 2013 (UTC)