Talk:Connie Dungs

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Rape Conviction[edit]

I found an anonymous editor had reverted major additions to this page under the guise of a "fixed typo". In particular, the section disclosing the conviction for rape and sexual abuse of a minor under the age of 12 by founding member and key songwriter Brandon Tussey was removed. Given the nature of the ghost/ninja edit, it is clear this was an ill-natured revision. Further, it begs the question whether Tussey himself or another band member may be editing the page, which is of course a violation of the Wikipedia terms of use.

I have reverted the edit, improved the former copy, and updated the page with some more recent news on the band. The events leading to the exit of a founding member and key songwriter are extremely relevant to a band's history, and this is not unlike any other band's page, which contains controversial historical information, whether the member is still affiliated with said band or not (see Metallica, Motley Crue, Black Flag, Red Hot Chili Peppers, or any band with a colored history). I will now be keeping a closer watch on this page. If the editor who made the ninja edit were a real user, I would invite a discussion with them, but they aren't so this comes close to falling under vandalism. Brakoholic —Preceding undated comment added 20:16, 8 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like an anonymous editor blanked out the rape conviction section again last month -- just reverted it. References there do probably need updating though, the one linked no longer works. Also looks like he has committed more violence and abuse since then, unfortunately. Putting some links here to come back to:
Certainstars (talk) 05:34, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the revert. And YIKES! regarding new crimes and charges. I'll have a look at the page and see if they warrant inclusion. He's been out of the band for so long, I'm on the fence as to whether it is pertinent, although it certainly supports the need to keep the crimes that got him booted from the band in the article.Brakoholic (talk) 06:06, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Certainstars: Given the removal of the original citation I provided for the 2014 conviction, I used the links you provided in support of his sex offender registry page to boost the validity of the information included in this section. Since the reports of the latest crimes included details of the original conviction, I found them relevant, even if he isn't in the band any longer.Brakoholic (talk) 06:37, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Calling @Certainstars: and any other editors of this page who have helped me defend previous ghost/ninja edits to controversial content relating to the band.

Below I have copied an exchange that was left on my user talk page. That was, in my estimation, an intentional misplacement to prevent outside attention from being drawn to the matter. Some who seek to remove this content from this page have finally done so without anonymity or dishonest guise of "typos", etc., and are attempting to remove this relevant, important public information about the band and its principal songwriter. I have replied to their comments with further source information proving the accuracy of this information and have shown evidence that this information is relevant to the band's history. As is evidenced by previous comments I have made below, I am a fan of this band. I do not seek to include this information lightly. It belongs here.

If you are an editor or frequent visitor of this page, please be aware of continued attempts to censor and sully the authenticity of this page. Brakoholic (talk) 00:35, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Copied entries and replies from my talk page:
BLP concerns for Connie Dungs
1. The footnote for this line does NOT document this very specific assertion: "Founding member and principal songwriter Michael Brandon Tussey was convicted in Boyd County, Kentucky of rape in the first degree and sexual abuse in the first degree for crimes committed on March 5, 2012, and January 30, 2014. The victim of the 2014 crime was a minor under the age of 12. Tussey was sentenced to a seven-year sentence, but was released on probation after one year."
It is my understanding that there was no trial and thus no "conviction" in a case alleging statutory rape; nor was the victim "under the age of 12." Nor was Tussey "sentenced to a seven-year sentence" (sic.) but rather was released on probation after time served after sitting for one year awaiting trial by pleading guilty. This needs to be either documented properly (if there was a trial there should be a reliable source documenting these assertions) or removed.
2. This sentence "In 2018, Tussey was again indicted for raping a young woman in June 2015, less than a year after his release on probation for the 2014 crime. This time the charges included kidnapping, sodomy, rape and persistent felony offender.[8]" This sentence implies guilt "for raping." The facts are that he was indicted for these charges but as yet, after sitting in county jail for over three years waiting for trial (!!!), he has never been tried and convicted. This lack of trial and conviction needs to be noted.
I have a COI with the subject and am pinging Cullen328 to make sure these concerns are addressed. Thanks. Carrite (talk) 19:21, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
I have removed the section because the crimes and accusations all took place quite a few years after Tussey left the band. This content is therefore not relevant to the article about the band. Cullen328 (talk) 19:39, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
This was an inappropriate removal and my talk page is an inappropriate place to document such removal. Any large scale change like this should be documented on the article's talk page, where you will find a handful of users including myself have been combating the inappropriate constant removal of this information from the band entry for years. I will be reverting your removal. This was the lead singer and principal if not lone songwriter of the band. These rape convictions are therefore of obvious concern and importance to an encyclopedic page about the band. These arrests, convictions and incidents took place around the time of reunions the band was planning that were slated to involve Tussey. Tussey did not leave the band, he was ejected because these crimes came to light. It is extremely relevant to the bio of the band. Other band pages that directly mention improper conduct, criminal activity and convictions of founding and former members include: New Found Glory, Motley Crue, Metallica, Pantera, Brand New, Marilyn Manson, Crystal Castles - I could go on. I cannot say unequivocally what happened to sources myself or others may have cited, but one can simply visit this page to see the conviction information: https://web.archive.org/web/20190313233507/kool.corrections.ky.gov/KOOL/Details/361463. He is a convicted rapist, no hiding it. Here is his sex offender registry page: http://kspsor.state.ky.us/Home/PrintFlyer/51112. Registered sex offender for sexual assault of an 11 year old. No hiding it. Actually, I'm just going to tag you and let you look at this evidence. I will give you a chance to revert your own removal before taking further action to repair the page. User:Cullen328 I will be copying the entirety of this conversation to the Connie Dungs talk page under the rape convictions section. Once I have heard back from you or Carrite, I will be deleting this from my user talk page as it does not belong here. Good day. Brakoholic (talk) 00:14, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
End of copied material. Brakoholic (talk) 00:35, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Brakoholic: Thanks for the heads up -- will keep an eye on this. Certainstars (talk) 01:36, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I removed this section for several reasons. The crimes that Tussey pled guilty to occurred 12 to 14 years after the band dissolved, and the band only lasted six years. The reliable independent sources that describe Tussey's crimes and the current charges against him do not mention his role in this band. I see no coverage in reliable sources that say that Tussey was excluded from the brief reunion of the band because of his conviction. That sounds plausible but unless covered by reliable sources, it is original research that should not influence this article. Brakoholic mentions several other band articles that mention criminal convictions by former band members. My question to that editor is this: in any of those cases, is there a lack of coverage by reliable sources that make the connection between the band and the crime(s)? For Wikipedia editors to make a connection that reliable sources do not make is synthesis, which is contrary to policy. Cullen328 (talk) 02:07, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
On another matter, I also corrected a copyright violation. The band's own self-description as reported by a reliable source covering their reunion was added to the article word for word in Wikipedia's voice. I rewrote that and added quotation marks, making clear the source of the description. Cullen328 (talk) 02:15, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It is an inaccurate misrepresentation to say the crimes occurred 12 to 14 years after the band dissolved when they were performing with Tussey as late as 2011, planning a new album for 2012 (the year the first crime occurred. surprise, no album ever materialized). Here's a link proving he was still with the band in 2011 (and that they intended to do a new album in 2012): https://theconniedungs.tumblr.com/post/9413427802/insub-2011-total-blast
It's also inaccurate to describe the reunion as brief, as the band has reunited numerous times over the past several decades. I'll continue to look for a reliable source on a link between his dismissal and the crimes, but given that the time difference is nowhere near what you exaggerate it to be, I would say your point is not particularly valid, because the incidents were timely related to the band's most recent performances and reunions with Tussey. One does not need to draw a connection between the crimes and Tussey's departure to make a factual entry. It could easily say something like "Tussey was performing with the Connie Dungs for reunion shows as recently as 2011. Shortly thereafter, he was involved in yadda yadda yadda... and has not been included in any reunion performances or plans since." Accurate, factual statement.
Is this or is this not an online encyclopedia whose prime objective is to give all people the world over "free access to the sum of all human knowledge"?? The quote is Jimmy Wales, just in case you don't immediately recognize it. And given that you took this action at the behest of the owner of the band's record label, I find the entire ordeal to be a highly questionable misuse of power to silence negative information about the group.Brakoholic (talk) 11:55, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Power"? What are you talking about? I made a bold edit, which any editor can do. "At the behest of"? An editor with an admitted conflict of interest openly asked me to take a look, and I made a completely independent decision. "Silence"? All the information remains in the edit history and here on this talk page. There is nothing at all improper here, so please drop the insinuations. I have zero conflict of interest since I had never heard of this band until I was pinged. Cullen328 (talk) 16:51, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Update[edit]

This page had no actual sources and was written rather poorly so I cleaned it up and added some citations where I could. It could still stand to be improved, and there are certain passages, like references to Guitar School that cite an issue, but provide no actual reference, that I will remove if they are not properly cited.Brakoholic (talk) 02:42, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Brakoholic - I think it is reasonable and fair the way it is written as of this date. Thanks for your work on it. COI note: I ran the label that put out 5 CDs, one SRCD, and 2 7"ers by the band, Mutant Pop Records. Carrite (talk) 02:27, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Carrite - Hope you've been well over the years, Tim. At this point I have written or rewritten most of the content here, and the page is on my permanent watchlist. I still have all those CDs and both of the 7"s, and even have old copies of the Mutant Pop Mail Order Catalog as well. I was just looking through a box of them today, so coincidental that you would drop a note the same day. We've actually exchanged a few comms before, back in the SRCD days. I feel like it might've had something to do with the Automatics, but it's been so long, who can say? Brakoholic (talk) 00:15, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Flagship band[edit]

The Connie Dungs were the flagship band of the American underground label Mutant Pop Records in the mid to late 1990s. This is a period of time acknowledged as THE peak of American Underground Pop Punk. The Connie Dungs, therefore, represent an underground music movement, not unlike early Green Day for the Gilman scene in the early 1990s.CDaniel 19:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have added this assertion to the page and thus the page no longer meets this criteria for speedy deletion.CDaniel 19:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I object to the deletion of this page because, as stated in the article, The Connie Dungs are representative of a particular genre and music scene, namely, American underground or independent pop punk of the mid to late 1990s.CDaniel 19:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just because you object doesn't mean you can remove the AfD notice. BJK 14:02, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What does this part of the AfD notice mean? "You may remove this message if you improve the article, or if you otherwise object to deletion of the article for any reason." Also: "To avoid confusion, it helps to explain why you object to the deletion, either in the edit summary or on the talk page. If this template is removed, it should not be replaced."CDaniel 19:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well I objected to it's removal so I put it back. BJK 17:33, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"If this template is removed, it should not be replaced."CDaniel 19:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note: I retroactively signed all my statements after I became aware of this convention and how to do so. CDaniel 19:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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