Talk:The End of All Things to Come

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Chilled Ghost of Atonement?[edit]

The "Chilled Ghost of Atonement" anagram paragraph seemed to serve no purpose whatsoever, so I have removed it. If anyone can make a good case for why it should remain there, please do so, or else I believe it should stay removed. --Muugokszhiion 05:49, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Track Eleven[edit]

Isn't there any information on the eleventh track? --Deathdoor 00:22, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I found some interesting stuff on the number combo. I can't figure out how to simplify it to 11:11, but a number of sources said it. -ExNoctem 19:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Beginningofallthingstocome.jpg[edit]

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Image:Beginningofallthingstocome.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 02:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:LostAndFound.JPG[edit]

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Image:LostAndFound.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:40, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Controversy[edit]

One cite in the article claims it was one of the most acclaimed metal relesaes of the year, but metacritic gives it a 48/100. So which is it? Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:24, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Genre[edit]

I don't necessarily disagree with the genres being added, but you need sources for the genres being added. Everything needs a citation. That's how wikipedia works. Please read WP:RS and find this information. I'll refer to Jimbo's quote here:

I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. This is true of all information...

Jimmy Wales [1]

  1. ^ Jimmy Wales (2006-05-16). ""Zero information is preferred to misleading or false information"". WikiEN-l electronic mailing list archive. Retrieved 2006-06-11. 

Please find sources for genres and everything else. Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:38, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

"you need sources for the genres being added" there's no policy saying this, that's you're personal opinion, which you're enforcing on this article. See Template:Infobox musical artist

"The genre or genres of music performed by the act. Aim for generality (e.g. Hip hop rather than East Coast hip hop). Genres should be separated with a comma delimiter. Genres should be wikilinked. Use piped links where needed, for example: Pop, rock. Note: most genres are not proper nouns and should not be capitalized. However, the first word in a list of multiple genres should be capitalized."

Nowhere does it say genres have to be sourced. I call the big one bitey (talk) 12:45, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

It also doesn't say to just "put whatever you think!" either. You still have to follow the general rules of WP:RS and WP:OR. Placing so many sub-genres of metal as you did as well goes against what the infobox says (i.e: Hip hop music rather than East coast hip hop). Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:47, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

But Mudvayne are listed as all of those genres on their page and all of them are sourced so it's not original research. There are tons of good articles and featured articles which have no sources for the genres. I call the big one bitey (talk) 12:51, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Just because it's listed like that on one page, doesn't mean it's okay for others and you can't base your research on other Wikipedia articles per Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. There might be FA or GA articles without sources on genres, but honestly, genre is one of the most edited and removed things on music articles. I wish we did not have the genre section in the infobox to avoid this kind of vandalism. What's even more troubling with genre (which I've read a few books about) is that many critics find that one when one critic or expert refers to one genre, they might mean something else when another sources discusses the genre. It's tricky! Either way, I'm trying to encouraging people to try and find sources for genres for albums and singles and such to try and avoid vandalism. As long as there is sources, then it's a lot easier to avoid the vandals. Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:58, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Genres for albums should of course be sourced. While a band may generally play one style or set of styles, any particular album may include other styles, or may not include some styles that the band normally plays. Saying that "the artist has sourced genres, therefore it's ok to use those genres here" is not true. Any information presented in any specific article should be sourced within that article, and especially any controversial information (such as genres). While it is true that Template:Infobox musical artist does not say that genres need sources, this is because it is assumed that editors have read WP:V. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 18:41, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Reception Section[edit]

The Reception section currently appears to be rather biased and not neutral.

The first sentence claims "The End of All Things to Come received positive reviews when it was released in 2002.", and is cited to a Boston Herald article. However, the link provided does not say this. I'm not sure if that link is intended to represent a full article that isn't available online, or if the link is the entire article. Can someone explain whether there is a longer version which explicitly states that the album "received positive reviews when it was released in 2002"? If not, this should be removed, as it appears to contradict other parts of the article.

While the information in the second sentence is an accurate quote (if rather short), and I'm willing to accept that the third sentence is also an accurate quote (I'm not interested in paying to find out), the section is very short, and seems constructed solely to support the first sentence. As noted in another talk section above, Metacritic only averages 48/100 from reviews. In addition, the rest of the reviews are 3/5, 2/5, 2/5, and 3/10. These are not positive scores, these are mixed or negative scores. Reading the reviews that are available confirms this; of the reviewers cited on this article, most did not like the album or had mixed feelings on it. There's also no text from any of these mixed/negative reviews included in the Reception section.

So I think the section should be expanded to include text from all of the reviews cited, and I really question claiming "The End of All Things to Come received positive reviews when it was released in 2002.", and think that it instead should read "The End of All Things to Come received mostly negative to mixed reviews.". MrMoustacheMM (talk) 07:12, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Read the cited source which says that the album received positive reviews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.42.92.110 (talk) 21:07, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Maybe if the link actually worked, we'd be able to. SonOfPlisskin (talk) 01:14, 9 May 2014 (UTC)