|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the The Osmonds article.|
|A fact from The Osmonds appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 15 August 2004. The text of the entry was as follows: "Did you know Wikipedia:Recent additions/2004/August.||
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|WikiProject Biography / Musicians||(Rated Start-class)|
|WikiProject Pop music|
- 1 Edits by Ckessler
- 2 Old comments
- 3 2ndG visit to UK Feb 2006
- 4 Removed from Career
- 5 Proposed merge
- 6 Merge? No! Scrap the Article, and Start Again
- 7 Unsourced statements
- 8 Weasel words?
- 9 "Like the Osmonds waste water!"
- 10 POV/tone issues and WP:SELFPUB
- 11 Osmonds covering the Jackson Five
- 12 "teen music idols"
- 13 The album: The Proud One 1975
- 14 Having a party
- 15 There should be a SEPARATE page for "Donny & Marie Osmond"
- 16 1958-present?
Edits by Ckessler
Ckessler removed, without specific explanation, large chunks of text: 1. Popular assumptions that the Osmonds copied the Jackson Five. 2. Popular assumptions that Donny was the lead singer for the Osmonds. 3. Reasons "The Plan" album was only modestly successful.
I have put those chunks of text back in and edited them to improve them and remove obvious opinions.
There are a lot of red links- can the person who made this page make one for all of the individuals? im assuming you have some knowledge about them, or i hope you do, because i have none. :P --Tothebarricades.tk 07:09, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- I've removed most of the red links because the individuals do not merit articles of their own. --Auximines 14:21, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)
2ndG visit to UK Feb 2006
Removed from Career
I removed this phrase , and are particularly strong on 'family values'. What does it mean? Are their songs preachy? Do they not play in bars? Ashmoo 02:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Why remove "family values"? They don't have to preach it, they live by it. That's what it meant...obviously. Unless maybe you have a problem with the term "family values" in general.184.108.40.206 (talk) 11:08, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
Personally, when I hear the words "family values" it sounds like it comes from a political ad or a bumper sticker. Furthermore, it doesn't really mean anything. It can basically mean anything that anyone wants to say "should" be valued by a family. Also, saying they're "particularly strong" is ambiguous. Does it mean they act out those values, or that they really, really, really believe they're important? Why not something like "they are known for professing and thought to act out values consistent with modern conservatism, and their LDS faith"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirpaulfan (talk • contribs) 21:45, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Why would you propose that? Do you propose to merge all people with their families? Or just Marie? And if so why just Marie? I mean no-one's proposing that we merge Michael Jackson with the Jacksons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 05:40, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- I agree with the proposal to merge Olive Osmond into the Osmond's article. Wjhonson (talk) 08:19, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Merge? No! Scrap the Article, and Start Again
This article is an unstructured mess. It is little more that fan scribblings and random trivia. Perfect for Wikiality, useless in a real encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 17:53, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
I have moved these paragraphs here if/until they can be sourced.
- bore an uncanny similarity to the so-called "bubblegum soul" sound of their contemporaries, The Jackson 5, and was seen by many at the time as another example of a white pop group "covering" the successful sound or style of a black group since the Osmonds had adopted that sound only after the Jackson 5 had already had several hits. Previously, when performing on the Andy Williams Show, they had specialized in a pop "barbershop quartet style of singing. 
- In spite of their squeaky-clean image, the Osmonds had a soulful, sometimes raucous sound which was a precursor of the power pop of later years. (For a time in the mid-1970s, they were the one of the few rock acts on TV, since the entire Osmond family appeared on a variety show which was mostly devoted to Donny and Marie, but where the Brothers were given a segment or two each week to rock out.)
The album, however, was a real testament to the brothers' ability to write and play (they played all the instruments on the album) and featured some serious songwriting, singing and playing chops.
Totally agree. This article sickens me: "Many mistakenly assume that the Osmonds' success resulted only because they were a safe, white copy of the African-American Jackson 5, another brother group. That idea sells the Osmonds short." Why does it sell them short? Because wikipedia says so! ugh.
I edited the "serious songwriting, singing and playing chops" section to what I feel is a more NPOV wording. If anyone can improve it, feel free. If someone wants the "serious..chops" statement to return, they need to find a serious reviewer stating that opinion.GBrady (talk) 16:25, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Incorrect/outdated info in Discography
I removed the following to here for 2 reasons:
1)Two spellings for the bootleg label "Meistro" or "Maestro"?
2)This link seems to indicate the fact these albums have never been released legitimately is no longer true.
Unless someone can show Amazon has "bad" label information, I feel it is best to remove this information as it is no longer important to the article. Plenty of noteworthy musical acts have had long stretches where their catalogues were out-of-print for legal or other reasons, The_Osmonds are no exceptions in this.
"The Osmonds 60s and 70s albums have never been released on CD legitimately in any country. Several 2 for 1 bootleg collections have been released on all of the original catalogue. Most notibly the first and original 4 album sets released on the Meistro label. Maestro released the albums as an original master series with hard to find bonus tracks tracks in top quality sound. Each set contained 4 albums on 2 CDs with all of the original album cover and MGM label art work intact. Many copies of these bootlegs have fallowed but the original Maestro label releases cannot be beat. These circulated through the internet on sites like Ebay for about 10 years and are now highly collectable." GBrady (talk) 16:37, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
I've done some editing and in my opinion the weasel words/POV stuff is gone now. Would that banner be able to be removed? I do think some cleanup is still needed in terms of citations...I'm not sure that a DVD from the band is acceptable for the section on Marie's eating disorder for instance..but I'll defer to others there. GBrady (talk) 16:44, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
"Like the Osmonds waste water!"
POV/tone issues and WP:SELFPUB
Some of the phrasing seems POV:
- Record producer Mike Curb saw the Osmonds (no longer called "The Osmond Brothers") perform as a band and recognized that they combined a rare mix of polished performing style, instrumental skill, and vocal talent - here the phrase a rare mix of polished performing style, instrumental skill, and vocal talent reads as POV, not to mention WP:OPED. Perhaps mentioning that he saw them and took them on in less flowery language.
- Under Hall's guidance, the Osmonds exploded onto the pop-music scene, hitting #1 on the Billboard pop chart with "One Bad Apple" in 1971 - here the Osmonds exploded onto the pop-music scene reads as POV, more like advertising copy. Perhaps the Osmonds became popular would be better phrasing.
- With their clean-cut image, their talent, and their energetic pop-rock sound, the Osmonds' popularity in the early 1970s was nearly unmatched - here the part after the last comma uses very subjective language, perhaps the Osmonds became very popular would be better. Better still, list the details of how popular their recordings were - less subjective and more verifiable.
- Some observers coined a new word, "Osmondmania," to describe the phenomenon - reads a bit like advertising copy. If it stays, it should have an independent source - see comment about self-published sources below.
- the Osmonds poured themselves into a new venture - again sounds like advertising copy - perhaps the Osmonds began a new venture would be better: more idiomatic and shorter, but saying much the same.
One sentence, namely: But changes and challenges soon arrived - doesn't really add much - the rest of the paragraph says more and in detail - it conveys the difficulties facing the Osmonds.
Osmonds covering the Jackson Five
OK, folks, so did the Osmonds change their style from Barbershop to whatever you want to call it before or after the Jackson Five had their first hits? The Osmonds' first hit, "One Bad Apple," with Donny singing the hooks, is similar to the early Jackson Five hits with Michael singing the lead. It shouldn't be difficult to work out the time lines and see how they fit.
I realize that is "original research" and can't go into the entry, but the first time I heard the Osmonds in 1971 my immediate reaction was "These white boys are out to cover the sound and style of the Jackson Five -- just like all those white pop groups did to the black artists in the '50s."
Speaking only for myself, and therefore of no use to the entry, I had been hearing the Jackson Five for more than a year before MGM released the first recording by the Osmonds. I think the Billboard charts would substantiate that the Jackson Five was out long before the Osmonds first charted, but that in itself doesn't prove that the Osmonds changed their style only after the Jackson Five's first national hit. (22.214.171.124 (talk) 10:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC))
The story goes that father Joe Jackson had the Jackson kids watch the Osmonds on the Andy Williams show, so they could learn from them. The Osmonds only sang barbershop during the early years. As they got older in the mid to late sixties, they started performing pop songs. They were regulars on the Jerry Lewis Show in 1969 and then rejoined Andy Williams with his new show around the same time. By the time they recorded their first album in 1970, they had been singing pop/rock for some years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 05:10, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
I'll have to look for the sources I had in the 80s, but I remember seeing that some of the recording people involved with them (Mike Curb, maybe?) was very cognizant of the fact that a white group singing like the J5 would earn a lot of fans among kids of people who didn't allow their kids to buy black music. That's where the rumors come from. Whether the Osmonds knew this or made any efforts to sound exactly like the Jacksons was never implied. They were just kids (the singing members 13 to 20 in 1970), so I think probably not. I'll try to hunt the references down; I think that controversy might be a good addition to the article. --Sirpaulfan — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirpaulfan (talk • contribs) 22:03, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
"teen music idols"
Would the Osmunds appreciate being called "teen music idols" if they're devout Mormons? I think "celebrity" might be a better term — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 20:40, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
They appeared to deal with it OK. Their own promotional materials, like Osmond's World, would occasionally have articles about what it was like to be a "teen idol" or even "superstar." They were frequently referred to as such in the magazines of the day, like 16 and Tiger Beat. Regardless, I don't know if it matters what the article subject thinks of a title; the more pertinent question is, is it appropriate and devoid of bias? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirpaulfan (talk • contribs) 22:07, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
The album: The Proud One 1975
Just thought i'd point out that this particular album was re-named "I'm Still Gonna Need You", with a catalogue no. of 2315 342. The track listings and cover stayed the same as "The Proud One", which as stated had a cat. no. of M3G-4993. Both versions were on the MGM Record label. Just thought you might wish to highlight this on the page. Thanks. :) Butdavid (talk) 01:57, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
Having a party
Really??? I think you might have a rare record with an error on it! I had the "The Proud One" album as a kid and read the label religiously (I also had S & G records, so I would have been very impressed if I'd seen their name on my lp or in the liner notes). I don't remember anything like that.--Sirpaulfan 10/20/2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirpaulfan (talk • contribs) 22:14, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
The song "We're Having a Party" was from the "Love Me For A Reason" LP, not "The Proud One". It was written by MASSEY, BOBBY / BARNUM, H. B. / MACKENZIE, LESTER. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 03:59, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
There should be a SEPARATE page for "Donny & Marie Osmond"
There should be a SEPARATE page for "Donny & Marie Osmond" as singers. They released albums and singles and had numerous numerous hits.
Also, Marie Osmond should not be listed on "the Osmonds" page because she was never a member of the group.
Sorry, but yes she was. The Osmonds is different from the Osmond Brothers, because it includes members of the family not in the brothers act, such as Marie and Jimmy (although he is now). Their live in concert and Christmas LP's were listed under The Osmonds, of which Marie was a part of. Same goes for the heading of some TV shows.
Are they really still active now? Did they ever have a hiatus? This article is kind of hard to read.--Krystaleen 16:35, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
- Ah according to MTV they disbanded in 1980, and they had ceased to be active since years before. I have changed the infobox.--Krystaleen 16:44, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
4 of the bros reunited as "The Osmonds" for performances in Branson starting in the 80s...not sure if that counts, since it wasn't the original 5. Sirpaulfan 10/20/2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirpaulfan (talk • contribs) 22:16, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
I believe only Jay took a hiatus to attend college. The article incorrectly states Marie retired in the 80's. She has been active since 1973. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 04:05, 29 August 2013 (UTC)