Talk:They Don't Care About Us
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The controversy always strikes me as peculiar - as in a very clearly articulated section, Jackson sings that Roosevelt would not have allowed it (paraphrase) - FDR was backed and supported by a sizeable enough proportion of the jewish community that it is historically acknowledged - viz FDR's Wikipedia entry: 'Roosevelt was backed by a coalition of voters which included traditional Democrats across the country, small farmers, the "Solid South," Catholics, big city machines, labor unions, northern African Americans, Jews, intellectuals and political liberals. This coalition, frequently referred to as the New Deal coalition, remained largely intact for the Democratic Party until the 1960s' (Leuchtenburg (1963) pp 183–196.). No-one seems to mention that. Jackson cites FDR and Martin Luther King as heroes against melodic and uplifting segment of instrumentation. Open to discussion on this, but query the proposition that MJ was expressing anti-semitic views or propaganda via these lyrics. I'd need more explanation of exactly how the lyric is anti-semitic. MatiusLi (talk) 14:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Where are the sources for all this information? I'm writing a research paper and would really like proof that MTV took the video off the air, etc etc.--22.214.171.124 18:52, 28 January 2007 (UTC)kickasskat
I have traveled to both Rio de Janeiro and Salvador da Bahia. Talk to any brazilian and they will tell you that the video was definitely shot in Pelourinho (downtown) Salvador da Bahia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 01:12, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
- 1 American music video
- 2 Huh?
- 3 Links to use
- 4 Genre
- 5 AEG Video
- 6 Credits
- 7 Rerecord?
- 8 Hidden Lyrics
- 9 Sure about the videoclips?
- 10 True reference for "They" and "us"
American music video
Didn't the American version of the music video depict Michael Jackson as walking in a military parade, reminiscent of a Nazi parade? -- Anon. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 18:58, August 22, 2007 (UTC)
No that was the "teaser video" for the same album, a promotional video for the anticipated album, it was accused by some of being reminisant of communism, but I think Jackson just wanted people to no he was the king. It was amazing to see and the reason I bought the album. Realist2 10:19, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
The firestorm ignited over the "Jew" and "kyke" lyrics overshadowed another line containing a potentially-offensive lyric that was never censored in any version. The line "hick me, kick me" is present in all versions of "They Don't Care About Us". Separating the music from the vocals yields irrefutable proof that Jackson clearly says "hick me, kick me" in the song.
How is "hick me" offensive?
Links to use
- http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/courant/access/22893883.html?dids=22893883:22893883&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Jun+18%2C+1995&author=ROGER+CATLIN%3B+Courant+Rock+Critic&pub=Hartford+Courant&desc=ONCE+THE+INDISPUTABLE+KING+OF+POP%2C+JACKSON+BADLY+NEEDS+A+HIT+TO+REVIVE+HIS+CAREER+IS+MICHAEL+HISTORY%3F&pqatl=google - little info about intro 'enough is enough of this garbage'. (DONE)
- http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE4DF113DF936A25755C0A963958260&scp=11&sq=Michael%20Jackson%20-%20HIStory&st=cse - June 15, The New York Times brings up issue of lyrics & describes them. Reporter raises question of anti semitism. Jackson responds issuing a statement to The New York Times, he gives his version on what the song is about. He also went on ABC news and denied anti semitism. Close employees of Jackson are Jewish. Jackson's lawyer and Epic records defend lyrics. (DONE)
- http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE3D7153EF935A25755C0A963958260 June 16, Jewish people offended, said lyrics not suitable for youngsters. Accept that Jackson not racist, said song had good intent but too ambiguous. ADL really angry about lyrics. Chorus to song mentioned. (DONE)
- http://www.biography.com/search/article.do?id=38211&page=4 Personal friend Steven Spealberg criticizes use of lyrics. (DONE)
- http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=MWSB&p_theme=mwsb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EB828E8A18AB778&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM - June 16, Jackson say's he takes on role of victim in song. (NOT NEEDED)
- http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-5989118.html - Jackson says he could never be a racist (NOT NEEDED)
- http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CEFD71239F934A25755C0A963958260&scp=19&sq=Michael%20Jackson%20-%20HIStory&st=cse - June 17, Jackson apologizes to anyone offended by lyrics, new copies of HIStory that have not yet been shipped to include a written apology from Jackson. Said song was misinterpreted, has a history of preaching tolerance. A leading Rabbi says Jackson is not racist. 2 million copies had already been shipped, before the inserted apology messages. (DONE)
- http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1995/06/17/1995-06-17_sorry_about_song__sez__hurt_.html June 17, Jackson shocked at reaction, "His only intention, he said, was "to say 'no' to racism, anti-Semitism and stereotyping. . . . I strongly feel that I represent the voices of the oppressed and the attacked. That was my only purpose". Apologies. Learning experience for Jackson, happy he took action. (NOT NEEDED)
- http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=PG&p_theme=pg&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EADF6DD64DDAF00&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM - My intention was for this song to say 'no' to racism, anti-Semitism and stereotyping. (NOT NEEDED)
- http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19950619&slug=2127154 - "The song is about the pain of prejudice and hate and is a way to draw attention to social and political problems. I am the voice of the accused and the attacked. I am the voice of everyone. I am the skinhead. I am the Jew. I am the black man, I am the white man. I am not the one who was attacking. It is about the injustices to young people and how the system can wrongfully accuse them." (NOT NEEDED)
- http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access/21529572.html?dids=21529572:21529572&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Jun+23%2C+1995&author=CHRIS+RIEMENSCHNEIDER&pub=Los+Angeles+Times+(pre-1997+Fulltext)&desc=Jackson+Will+Re-Record+%60Care'+Lyrics+Pop+music%3A+Michael+Jackson+apologizes+and+says+he+plans+to+change+the+words+in+%60They+Don't+Care+About+Us'+that+some+considered+to+be+racial+slurs.&pqatl=google - By June 23 Jackson had said he would rerecord the song without the controversial lyrics for new presses of HIStory.
- http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE1DB1E3AF930A15755C0A963958260 - June 23, Further details on lyrical change. (DONE)
Commentary on reaction
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=neaB76iFhCEC&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html Page 151-152, Spike Lee says there is a double Standard, OK to say Nigger but not Kike. (DONE)
Commentary outside of lyrical controversy
- http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=BG&p_theme=bg&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EADE15C380B393A&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM - Described as hip-hop. (DONE)
- http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/entertainment/1995/06/19/1995-06-19_michael_s__his_-sy_fit__sing.html (DONE)
- http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE0DD123DF93BA25755C0A963958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=3 (DONE)
- https://music.msn.com/music/album-review/michael-jackson/they-don't-care-about-us.2/ Release date, genres and critical anaylsis (DONE)
- http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0015822 F major, Guitar and piano (DONE)
Commentary on shanti town music vid
Commentary on prison version
- http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-18145914.html - Confirms there are two videos. (DONE)
http://www.mjvisionary.com/mjvisionary.html - Top 30 in US, reached #4 in UK and spent 3 months on chart. (DONE)
This is a hard song to categorize in a genre. Usually the songs on wikipedia are sloppily labeled as just "Pop" which is careless. But how is this raggae?
- Per the sourcing in the article. Just read the article, it's all sourced. :) — R2 12:49, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
I believe that this is the song featured in the 2-minute video clip of Michael Jackson rehersal for "This is it." Singalitle 04:15, 02 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk)
The article indicates Jackson re-recorded and replaced the offensive lyrics with other lyrics, but the versions of the song I keep hearing actually have a censoring sound effect over the words. No mention of this in the article? TheHYPO (talk) 15:04, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
- I'm more than sure it's just a collection of random adlibs. Unless you can provide some reliable sources, then it cannot go in the article. Pyrrhus16 16:48, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Sure about the videoclips?
You guys sure the Brazilian version was the first music video filmed for the song, as stated in the article? A lot of sources claim otherwise, the cover of the CD-single depicts Michael in his prison-uniform, and the Brazilian version has a loud drum sound over the "jew"-part of "jew me, sue me". You sure nobody messed up and turned around the two different versions? Mr.Samba-boy (talk) 23:59, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
True reference for "They" and "us"
I couldn't find any direct references in this article to which "They" and "us" are referring which are the first and last word in the actual title of the article. I found only some indirect mentions and a direct mention by another musician (Tupac Shakur) which is somewhat unrelated and also paraphrased. I have seen many articles and videos where Michael Jackson himself states exactly what "They" and "us" are referring to. I also notice there are no mentions of the artwork used in the video clip of the music, particularly referring to the symbolism depicted as graffiti. For example, here is a link to a video which mentions some of the references, also with Michael Jackson among many other speakers: YouTube video — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 14:24, 3 May 2014 (UTC)