Talk:Thubten Zopa Rinpoche

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Moving Page[edit]

Just to let you guys know...I'm moving "Thubten Zopa Rinpoche" to "Lama Thubten Zopa Rinpoche," just to make it easier and more understandable in order to clarify position. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prowikipedians (talkcontribs) 11:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a bad move, as we are supposed to drop the titles of people in Wikipedia. To include it as if it is his name as title of the page is against Wikipedia rules I think.rudy (talk) 12:34, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Rudy is correct. The page should not be moved. Kafziel Complaint Department 15:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I still don't understand. Why? Moving this page is to pay respect to the person. Otherwise, you are regarding this person as an "ordinary monk." He has to be highly respected. Is there another alternative? Prowikipedians (talk) 07:48, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

We're not here to "pay respect" to people. This is an encyclopedia. Kafziel Complaint Department 07:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the editors should reconsider changing this entry to "Lama Thubten Zopa Rinpoche." Lama Zopa most frequently goes by that name. If we were going to be super honorific we would be pushing "Kyabje Lama Thubten Zopa Rinpoche." Check the searches for Lama Zopa in the wikipedia logs (vs. Thubten Zopa) and see how frequently people are re-directed from their search for Lama Zopa to the page that lists all the Rinpoches. Lama Zopa really does go by the name Lama Zopa, hence that is what his web page is called. Just a thought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lurlie (talkcontribs) 22:13, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

PAGE SHOULD BE MOVED[edit]

Hello. I've rechecked and rethought about the issue of moving this article to 'Lama Thubten Zopa Rinpoche'.

  • One This does not violate the naming conditions, since the term 'lama' is not an "honorific term"
  • Two The term 'lama' cannot be applied to any monk. It has to be earned for such a title.

Prowikipedians (talk) 06:19, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

The fact that it's earned doesn't mean anything. Lots of honorifics can be earned. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:22, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
I started the page here, on the principle that "lama" is not part of his actual name, but an honorary title. "Rinpoche" I left in, however--and I admit to being unsure of where to draw the line, especially as there seems to have been some controversy over Zopa's recognition. (Persian "Mirza" presents a roughly parallel problem.)
In most cases the title "lama" is not so much "earned" as informally ascribed. I am aware of exceptions among Western Nyingmapa practitioners, where the title is explicitly awarded by a spiritual teacher to his students, often after they have done a three-year retreat, but that would not apply here. The fact is that in the beginning, neither Yeshe nor Zopa had a following among the Tibetans. They got called "lama" in part because many Westerners assumed that *all* Tibetan monks were called that, and partly because they took on the role of lama with respect to these Westerners.
By the way, I also highlighted the short form "Lama Zopa." If someone does a search for "Lama Zopa" it leads here (despite their being many other lamas named Zopa). This on the principle that this phrasing is often used in print, and apparently the Ven. T. Zopa will even answer the phone this way to avoid confusion. ("Hello, this is Lama Zopa...") --Dawud —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.167.171.161 (talk) 06:21, 20 August 2008 (UTC)