Talk:Time Cube

In the month of July, 2005, a request for arbitration was left open concerning this article. Both sides were allowed to express their viewpoints. Afterwards, the arbitrators made the following comments. Please leave this section here for reference; any changes will be removed. Accept Fred Bauder July 7, 2005 22:39 (UTC) Accept ➥the Epopt 23:08, 9 July 2005 (UTC) Accept Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 17:32, 12 July 2005 (UTC) Comment: I'm not sure you need the ArbCom to tell you what to do with an incoherent POV-pushing anon ... - David Gerard 10:05, 21 July 2005 (UTC) Reject. As David, this is not a situation where you need arbitration. Just block as needed -- sannse (talk) 16:39, 22 July 2005 (UTC) Reject - Concur with David, shoot on sight, no arbcom needed. →Raul654 17:26, July 22, 2005 (UTC) Reject, agree with David. James F. (talk) 18:43, 22 July 2005 (UTC) Reject. Feel free to block on sight. You don't need our permission. Neutralitytalk 18:43, July 22, 2005 (UTC) For those who haven't been following the discussion... A mostly anon user, referred to as TimeCubeGuy, frequently reverts pages to some variant of this version. The "unofficial" result of the above ArbCom (the case was rejected on grounds that the user was a simple troll/crank) was to shoot this user's edits on sight: that is, if you see the page resembling the page referenced above, it is considered vandalism and should be reverted.

Projection Link

Is there a particular motivation for the link to Peirce's quincuncial projection? I don't see the point, beyond humorous effect, and suggest its removal. Strangename (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:27, 20 May 2010 (UTC).

Should the spawn of parody websites be covered here? Sites such as this one. --Luisdanielmesa (talk) 08:59, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Not unless reliable sources have noted those specific parodies. We don't need lots of joke sites piggybacking off the article. Thymecube did make me smile but it is only a 1 page site and I can't see it being worth a mention. --DanielRigal (talk) 09:15, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Err, not to state the obvious... timecube is a one page site. --Luisdanielmesa (talk) 09:43, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Not to state the obvious, but timecube is NOT a one-page site. Scroll to the bottom of the first page. There is a link to "NEXT PAGE" and if you click that link you get another huge swath of the same mentally ill and racist twaddle. At the bottom of the second page there are links to MORE pages, including specifically anti-Jewish material. 64.142.90.33 (talk) 05:17, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Solution as a interpretation of Time Zones

The "4 days in a single rotation" has nothing to do with a rotation lasting 4*24 hours, instead he's interpreting four semi-hemispheres as experiencing their own individual "days" which are also simultaneous. However, one could take this idea out further with prisms of higher order, and arrive at something like Time Zones or further until the count of sides approaches infinity and the analysis becomes one of continuous mapping rather than a discreet one. In short, he's being esoteric by exploiting people's popular misunderstanding of the Calculus.

Anyone who thinks he's being "smart" needs to just go learn some Maths and how to think about more interesting things. 70.247.161.166 (talk) 10:30, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Religious material

I feel that Ray's religious beliefs need to be represented in this article. They're so strongly represented on Timecube and its sister sites that there needs to be some material on them. His beliefs are interestingly weird in and of themselves, and I feel their inclusion could be done objectively and without falling into speculation. And the article certainly feels incomplete without them. Fumoses (talk) 15:21, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Subjective POV and Citations needed

First of i need to say- yes, it does appear that gene ray is a crank. The inserted picture from his website made me lol.

BUT - that doesnt mean that this article is acceptable. It reads as very subjective and independant research. We wouldnt tolerate this sort of write up on anyone else- why should we allow this unreferenced sarcastic diatribe?

i started adding {fact} to individual lines, but stopped because there were so many unreferenced claims, so i tagged the whole article as citations missing. i also added the {pov} tag --Brunk500 (talk) 08:10, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Racial theories

I'm not sure, but when I was reading through his websites for some laughs, I found some odd racial opinions of Ray's, maybe they should be mentioned?

"Christianity is subservient to the Jews. The Bible is Jewish, Academia and Government based upon the Jewish Bible are Jewish."

"Racial integration equals "Racial Slop"."

From http://www.abovegod.com/

He seems to have his pages peppered with rather racist statements like this. Pstanton 22:41, 12 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pstanton (talk • contribs)

The charge of "racism" is misplaced, I think. Ray believes there are four races in the world (white, black, yellow, and brown, or something like that), each of which ought to remain in its own corner and avoid mixing. He never says his own race is superior. (I add in passing that as a race-mixe, I myself fall under his condemnations.) As for anti-Semitism, his comments about "Jewish" lies amount to a condemnation of the Bible and its God (for maintaining that each day contains one day).--Bei Dawei —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.165.205.69 (talk) 10:12, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't look very "misplaced" to me:

“

CATASTROPIC WARNING - Obama must resign to save his people from his catastrophe. SUN power will not allow any Black Skin power to rule over its Light Domain. Hell cometh to the dumb, ignorant, educated stupid "Worshippers of ONE"

”

That's basically saying Obama shouldn't be president because he's black. If that's not racist, what is? Dendodge Talk^Contribs 23:52, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Then it's not Ray who is racist, it's the sun! (Sigh) You're right, the text is full of things that would sound racist to most people. However, Ray somewhere (please don't ask me to scroll through and find it!) denies being a racist. While I can't quite fathom what the above quote means, it might simply go along with his idea that the races ought to remain geographically separated. Is that racism? Well, maybe--but it would apply to whites in Africa as well as blacks in America. (Equal-opportunity racism?) It does not sounds as though he wishes any harm to Obama. The "dumb, ignorant" line refers to us! --Bei Dawei

Not sure how any of that absolves him of a charge of racism. He's discriminating based on racial groups; he need not claim that one is superior or inferior to be espousing racist views. Equal opportunity racism is still that: racism. 24.218.204.8 (talk) 20:49, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Regardless of the apparent offensiveness of his comments, speculation about whether he is or isn't racist is not appropriate for Wikipedia. Wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth. If you want to comment on his alleged racist tendencies or comments, then you need to find reliable, third party sources that make these claims. Otherwise they are wholly inappropriate for Wikipedia; Wikipedia reports what other reliable sources say is true; it isn't supposed to make judgements on its own.  Xihr  07:25, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

The above point is total bull. You don't need third party sources to say something is racist when the website itself is racist. Cls14 (talk) 18:42, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to break it to you, but that's just not how Wikipedia works. See WP:NOR, WP:V.  Xihr  07:12, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure people here actually understand what the word "racist" means. We're not arguing about whether or not Gene Ray is a mean person, or whether or not he thinks nasty thoughts about black people. Ray believes in a system in which certain ethnic groups have certain properties which other ethnic groups lack, and vice versa, and that these properties should determine power relations between ethnic groups (who gets to be president, who gets to marry whom, etc.) This is, in fact, the definition of racism ("a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others" [[1]]). It would be inappropriate for an encyclopedic article to condemn Ray for his beliefs or to otherwise cast moral judgment on him, but characterizing his theories as "racist" is simply being accurate. At any rate, Ray's racial theories are certainly notable in any article about him and his work on Time Cube, and should be on this page - in fact, their deliberate omission here is kind of questionable, given the amount of time Ray spends decrying things like racial integration and intermarriage. Fumoses (talk) 15:06, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

No reference to racism?

It seems odd that the article doesn't seem to have any reference to racism, reading the site (especially the recent parts) it seems like there is quite a lot of racist material there. 152.78.174.6 (talk) 15:10, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I am surprised that the article doesn't mention this. In fact, I do not understand why a lot of the information from this older version is not included. I understand that one user made a big effort to make the page look just the way he wanted, etc., and that isn't a good thing. However, a lot of the information mentioned there seems to be quite relevant. (When I first read the arbitration discussion at the top of this page, I expected that link to take me to a page that clearly tried to extol the virtues of Time Cube theory, or something of the sort, but that doesn't seem to be the case at all.) I feel that I am missing something. :\ Nihixul (talk) 20:43, 11 February 2009 (UTC)#

The racist stuff is fairly new and is totally unrelated to his original writings. Or, if related, he originally veiled his racism so thickly that it was not readily discernible. The racist stuff deserves as much mention as anything else, and currently has none. 24.218.204.8 (talk) 20:47, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I personally think Sarah Palin is an idiot. Should I demand that her WikiPedia entry state that she's idiotic? Frankly, I have a lot more proof (and citations from other sources) that Sarah Palin is an idiot than you have that Time Cube is racist. I guess I just don't get why there's this "Destroy the Timecube Entry" movement among some of you. Seems like you could live your entire lives without even acknowledging that the Time Cube site (or this entry on it) exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.33.202.98 (talk) 22:23, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

New material

Ok, this guy is obviously a crank - but I have added a short section to the article relating to the claims he makes which are not so nutty, and conform more to conventional thinking. They may be a little "truth before verifiability" and possible OR, but I'm sure a little re-writing could make them more acceptable. Please don't delete them immediately - I think they're worth having to provide a little balance! Caseykcole (talk) 03:21, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

$10,000 or $1000

The article say that the prize for disproving Time Cube dropped from $10,000 to $1,000 - but the timecube.com site is still offering $10,000 specifically to Wikipedians for disproving the theory. So I guess that $1,000 number is wrong.

But there is a problem here. It bothers me that the Time Cube site is reacting to what we say here - and what we say here relates to what that website says. Are we now creating the facts that we're supposed to be documenting? We're supposed to strive to avoid self-reference. SteveBaker (talk) 15:51, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Ohh no! the time-space continuum is gonna rip!!! Lol. I see an infinity mirror coming. He's a nut-job who's probably never traveled and doesn't know about timezones or even that a cube has 6 sides not 4. Sorry, had to let it out after reading so much non-sense. I propose the whole article be deleted because it contains original research not verifiable by any third party. He's talking about us talking about him, ad infinitum. Luisdanielmesa (talk) 08:32, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Relax everyone. The way round this is to try to write about the subject based on what other reliable sources say about it and avoid overcoverage of this minor subject. We don't need to delete it, just keep it in perspective.

As for the notional prize, if he says he offers $10,000 then that is what we report. We don't need to mention Wikipedia specifically. Anybody can be a Wikipedian so the higher prize is notionally available to anybody (although it remains unwinnable because Time Cube is not a meaningful theory that has anybody can prove or disprove). It is natural that he is excited by Wikipedia's coverage. It is the second search hit on "time cube" and we are the closest thing to mainstream academia that has shown any long term interest in him. We do not have to be excited about his interest in us.

Regarding his talk of a cube having 4 sides, my understanding is that he regards the top and bottom as not constituting "sides". Of course, we all know that a cube has 6 identical faces irrespective of orientation but his understanding seems to be rooted in the vernacular where a square room has 4 walls, a floor and a ceiling. In his case all 6 of these may well be padded.

--DanielRigal (talk) 08:49, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

The Time Cube's 4 corners are Abitrary. Why stop at 4? Why not 360 degrees?

I wanted to put this in the article but I can't figure out how to articulate it. Basically, people get at what he's saying with the four corners thing. At first it's like "Wha?" but then everybody sees what he's getting at. The thing he doesn't realize is that time and measurement in general is just something the human race agreed upon. If we decided to count four corners as individual days we'd have done that by now. By why stop at four? Why not 8 or 16 or 360–one for each degree? It's just like how we decided that a day was 24 hours. If this was a perfect measurement there would be no need for daylight saying time or leap year or leap days.

It's all stuff we made up, just like he made up his stuff BASED ON ALREADY MADE UP STUFF! It's made up stuff we agree on but I digress.

Before timezones everyone had it's own time... trains started being late (and crashing with each other) as soon as those rails were set in place. It's close to what Vvvhellovvv said below; everyone had it's time. A city 400km away from another would have a difference in the wall-clock time. We managed to agree to "MAKE UP STUFF" to help our communication systems work. On the 360 degree note, we could also use various other angle measurement alternative units., but we would still need some degree of daylight saving. Daylight saving is a way to overcome the effect of the tilt of the earth as it moves around the sun, which makes days (and nights) not of equal duration (day length) throughout the year (except on two occasions, each called equinox). You could have "perfect measurement" of time, but you would still be stuck with the varying daylight amounts. Cheers.--Luisdanielmesa (talk) 09:38, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

So yeah, I wanted to put something like that in the criticism section. But understand I don't think he's necessarily a crackpot (at least not for the 4 day thing) I simply think all he's doing is re-inventing the wheel with this. We already decided how we want to measure an earth rotation. An in fact, the time cube would mean having two watches, one for time cube time (six hour intervals) and one for earth time(24 hours). But again, I don't mean criticism like he's crazy or even dumb, just really really really misguided.Utils (talk) 15:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is based on reliable sources, not speculation. We don't, and shouldn't be, deciding on anything. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:^simple/_complex 17:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I think what you meant to say was "Wikipedia is supposed to be based on reliable sources, not speculation". The more I edit on Wikipedia, the more I realize how much of it is crap. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:58, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a forum for discussing Wikipedia's flaws or otherwise. Talk pages are for discussing issues with this page specifically. General discussions about wikipedia can be addressed to the village pump or Wikipedia Review. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:^simple/_complex 18:58, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

You are quite right. My appologies. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:00, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually about the 4 corners and why not 360 degrees, ray seems to have something with the number 4. I read in this interview (http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1084027) that he thinks 16 isn't even real, since it's just four fours... and he says everything has 4 corners and four sides and you don't count the top or bottom since you can't lean on the ceiling or floor... Sounds like flawed logic to me. SebDaMuffin (talk) 07:21, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

The only approach is just to document what he says and what reliable sources say about him. If we have a good source showing that he denies that 16 is real then that is probably worth including but it is best not to think too hard about what, if anything, it might actually mean. Quite apart from it being Original Research to use any such speculations in the article, it is probably not healthy to try to analyse this stuff. It's not like Wikipedia can afford to fund treatment if any editors have a mental breakdown. ;-) --DanielRigal (talk) 11:48, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

The 4 corners thing is completely arbitrary; you could easily argue that there are 7 days in 1 "evil Greenwich" day using Ray's "logic". Just put 7 people equidistant on the equator, and each of them will experience one day in a full rotation. According to Ray, that makes 7 days. But really, there must be a day for each person on earth, so there are actually billions of days everyday. Vvvhellovvv (talk) 07:05, 23 March 2010 (UTC)vvvhellovvv

You're totally right. There are indeed billions of days. Everybody lives in their own universe. :) Utils (talk) 07:02, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Article by Bei Dawei

I removed this as it does not appear to be a reliable source according to WP:RS. It is up to anyone adding a source to show that it matches our criteria. I can find very little mention of this journal, let alone evidence it's a reliable source. The AfD suggests it was by a student - WP:Articles for deletion/Time Cube (Umpteenth nomination), although he is now an associate professor at the university. Presuming this is Bei Dawei, at [2] he says "it is technically "peer-reviewed", but not necessarily by experts on that subject (whatever this one would be, I don't know--popular culture I guess). Also, the revised versions don't get re-reviewed. I do recall one reviewer saying that it should be set apart somehow from the other articles in the journal, to show that it was done a bit tongue-in-cheek, but that suggestion wasn't followed." and "I have to say I was feeling a bit cynical about the whole academic thing when I wrote it. (My university wants me to write articles, but doesn't much care what they're about.) The poster who accuses me of not perceiving irony should realize that I was smiling the whole time I wrote it. ". I can't find any other articles by him. So how does this qualify as a source? Dougweller (talk) 12:40, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Point of personal privilege...? I assure you that the article is "reliable" in the sense that everything in it that is presented as fact (for example, quotes and so on) really is factual, to the best of my knowledge and ability. This isn't a fake article like "The Onion." I have done my best to fairly summarize Dr. Ray's views, notwithstanding my admittedly dubious motivation in taking up the project, and attitude while writing it. If anything, it is my interpretation of Ray's significance which takes the most liberties. Yes, there are serious problems with Taiwan's system of journal refereeing, including at my university, but that should not affect the issue of whether this is a reliable source. On the other hand, much of it is out of date by now (for example, there are many more commentarial sites), and I would not object if editors here think the Wikipedia article would be better without it. --Bei Dawei—Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.165.204.107 (talk • contribs) 07:08, 13 August 2009

WP:BLP concerns

This has been bugging me for a while. This article calls Gene Ray a "crank" and cites a tabloid newspaper as its source. I cannot find the article online but according to the footnote on our article, the article states "YES, the guy's mad - but at least he's not boring. Check out the Time Cube rants". WP:BLP concerns aside, the source doesn't appear to support the statement "Though he is often dismissed as a crank". Based on the footnote, we could say "The Daily Mirror referred to Gene Ray as mad". But given WP:BLP, I'm wondering if the phrase "Though he is often dismissed as a crank" should be removed entirely. The rest of the sentence still works without this phrase. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 00:20, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd agree with you if wikipedia didn't already have this article describing him very well. Ban Bridges (talk) 05:12, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

-1*-1 = -1

In his defense, there are consistent mathematical systems that use -1*-1 = -1 as a postulate instead of -1*-1 = 1. The modern convention took about three hundred years (mid 1500s to mid 1800's, see "Negative Math" by Alberto A. Martínez pg 18 ) to establish and historically was a persistent point of confusion. Although I doubt if he's aware of these formal systems. Pulu (talk) 22:54, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Only in the sense that pretty much any trivial equation involving a product can be redefined as such. Given some ring with identity, define n as per convention by n = 1+1+1...+1 n times (or -1 -1 -1 -1... -1 (-n) times if n is written negatively). Of course, this is not the default meaning and it's NOT what he's referring to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.145.33.183 (talk) 22:55, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Notable?

How is this page even notable enough to warrant a separate article? 83.25.99.186 (talk) 18:04, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

IMHO it is notable enough. If for no other reason than to distinguish the english wikipedia from the german wikipedia. What's worth more? The savings on some disk space, even it it was on the order of some GB, or the freedom of knowledge, even if it was for some crackpot opinions? 93.132.179.189 (talk) 16:32, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

I stated my concern because this may become a silly precedent. I dont think wikipedia should be index of everything internet has to offer - there are millions of tiny silly pages out there with no meaningful content. Should we make articles about each and every one of these? Only some? Which? 83.25.63.193 (talk) 20:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

To help editors with those types of questions, Wikipedia has a series of notability guidelines. The generic notability guideline is at WP:N, and the website/web-content guideline is at WP:WEB. Of course, all articles must also conform with our policy on verifiability using reliable sources. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:47, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

He's one of the most notable of the Internet crackpots. If Hampster Dance can have an article, then Time Cube can... AnonMoos (talk) 17:49, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

The notability of the subject of one wiki page cannot be used to justify the notabily of the subject of another wiki page. In my opinion, this one is non-notable. Mental illness with an idee fixee is hardly notable. 64.142.90.33 (talk) 05:12, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Time Cube has been on WikiPedia for almost as long as WikiPedia has existed, and it hasn't resulted in the end of the Universe yet. Just calm down already. Time Cube is listed because it's amusing, and it's been around forever. It's taking up maybe 50k of hard drive space. The Internet will survive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.33.202.98 (talk) 22:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Cancer?

I went to Timecube and searched for the cancer reference. The only instance of the word "cancer" on the first two pages was in the sentence "YOU CAN"T KILL ME, FOR I AM 82 + CANCER." I then googled "timecube cancer", and found an interview here: [3] , where Gene Ray says that Cancer is his star sign. Timecube doesn't generally go for astrological symbolism, as far as I can recall, but with the general level of incoherence, who knows? I'm rewriting the sentence to reflect the ambiguous nature of the information. 75.80.154.67 (talk) 21:03, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

This was obvious original research and I have removed it. In any event, the article is about the site, not the writer. GDallimore (Talk) 09:12, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Psychology

Hasn't anyone studied Ray and his writings from a psychiatric perspective? --129.33.1.37 (talk) 20:22, 13 January 2010 (UTC) user:Tysto can't be bothered to log in

Psychiatrically there is not much to study. Outside of his odd philosophy, he is a very normal old man. 38.112.4.154 (talk) 14:35, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Insanity manifests in less extreme ways than insisting on being Napoleon Bonaparte. Apparently many insane patients have a perfectly internally consistent system of logic/morality/w/e that is merely unfit to functioning in the society. He's got one and he's screaming it out at the top of his metaphorical lungs. Okay, not so much "less extreme" here.

Fanatical adherence to a completely bizzarre philosophy he made up from the whole cloth not proven or backed by any genuine branch of science or mathematics. Insistence on being the target of conspiracies. Apparent delusions of self-importance. Right now I'm regretting I posted this response to start with, so let's just say that I think his own theories are proof enough about the author. Mind, I don't believe in a uniform definition of "sanity", only different degrees of madness. :) --The Fifth Horseman (talk) 23:51, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Journey connection

I wonder if there is a connection between Time Cube and Time 3, an album by Journey whose title is pronounced as "Time Cubed". Since Time 3 was released several years before Ray created his website, it would have to be Ray naming his website after the album, not Journey naming their album after Ray's website. Maybe Gene Ray is a Journey fan, or perhaps the album inspired him to create his theory? I haven't read the entire website; did Gene Ray ever refer to Journey in his rantings, by any chance? Stonemason89 (talk) 20:18, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

No idea. But you can always ask him. His e-mail address is listed on his web site. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:05, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Who cares? This is not a chat site.  Xihr  00:26, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Is TimeCube pseudoscience?

I don't think I agree with this edit here.[4] If TimeCube isn't pseudoscience, then what is? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 22:42, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Crackpot ramblings with no relevance to science, pseudo or otherwise. Simple solution is to find a reliable source that makes the characterisation. GDallimore (Talk) 22:45, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

But WP:FRINGE specifically states that we don't need a reliable source to classify something as pseudoscience. In fact, it even mentions Time Cube by name: "Obvious pseudoscience: Theories which, while purporting to be scientific, are obviously bogus, such as Time Cube, may be so labeled and categorized as such without more." I'm very puzzled by the removal of these categories from the article. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 22:57, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

I've taken it up at fringe. Rubbish like this does not deserve such a categorisation. Amazingly, it gives it more credence than it deservces. GDallimore (Talk) 23:37, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Given that no consensus has been reached at WP:FRINGE to change the guideline, I'm restoring the pseudoscience tags. I really don't care too much one way or another, but we should at least be consistent with WP:FRINGE and right now it says to put the pseudoscience tag on TimeCube. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 03:04, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have removed the pseudoscience category as the arbcom decision that called this pseudoscience has been amended to remove that reference. The other two categories were clearly inappropriate for the reasons given in my edit summaries.

I would be happy to add back the pseudoscience cat if someone can find a source suggesting that there is any science in time cube. The website itself does not say it's science, it just says all science is wrong, which is not the same thing. GDallimore (Talk) 15:26, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't Bei Dawei's article suggest there's science in Time Cube? As for what's on the website, there are in fact claims of Time Cube being a scientific theory. For instance, Gene Ray states that "Wikipedia claim that the Time Cube is non-science constitutes a Grave error by the half-brain bastard who can't think opposite of the lies he was taught." and that "You educated stupid word animals can't fathom this greatest social and scientific math of creation." Woseph (talk) 17:11, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

That's circular. Wikipedia says it's not science, so time cube objects, giving wikipedia an excuse to confirm that it's pseudoscience? No thank you. Besides, what's "scientific math of creation"? It's gibberish, not science or pseudoscience. GDallimore (Talk) 12:30, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

It is not circular reasoning, the quotations disprove (in my opinion) your statement that "The website itself does not say it's science". Not too important though, I think, as we don't allow subjects to classify themselves. Woseph (talk) 18:15, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

And what article are you talking about? GDallimore (Talk) 12:37, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

"Proving Human Stupidity": Time Cube, Gnosis, and the Challenge of Radical Cosmology by Bei Dawei [5], published in Hsuan Chuang Humanities Journal. It's been discussed a lot before, and was also mentioned in our article (before a deletionist went crazy on it again). Woseph (talk) 18:15, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Nice little article. I'm assuming it was removed as a source for being self-published? Shame. However, a search for "scie" within the text provides only 8 hits, most of which are quotes from ray saying science is a lie or scientists are stupid, which doesn't help here.

The closest to purporting to be science are a few paragraphs which begin with the statement that ray's words are "seemingly scientific" and go on to say that Ray says his conclusions are scientific. That almost does it for me, but if you read the article between those quotes, the article actually supports my position that Ray's ideas are more a form of twisted philosophy which Ray holds to be objectively true. I understand this to mean that Ray thinks his ideas are compatible with science, without being scientific themselves. This would be true of a number of liberal, non-literal readings of the bible, but these wouldn't be called pseudoscience; only creation science which perverts science to its own ends obtains that label.

All in all, I think this article supports my position that Time Cube is more about philosophy (in its message) and sociology (in the social-network Internet response) than it is about science and I'm now looking into suitable social categories that might be used along those lines. GDallimore (Talk) 18:48, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea why it was deleted. The Time Cube article was really good at one time, but now almost nothing remains of it. I don't think Dawei's article was self-published; someone claiming to be Bei Dawei posted here, saying it was peer-reviewed, see archive 12. This [6] might be submission information (from [7]), but I have no idea what it says. As for (psuedo-) science or not, how do you interpret (in context): "Who is to say what art, what literature, what science deserves our attention and respect? Given that publishing, education, and scientific research have become industries with their own interests distinct from those of ordinary people, let alone some idealized purpose; and given that ours is an age of decentralization of authority and the deconstruction of canons, should we not widen our gaze to include these formerly unnoticed intellectual forms?"? Woseph (talk) 22:23, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

According to http://eng.hcu.edu.tw/front/bin/ptdetail.phtml?Part=fll01 Bei Dawei is an Associate Professor at Hsuan Chuang University, specializing in a number of fields, but leading with Philosophy. Now, while we'll probably agree Time Cube doesn't really fit neatly into any specific field, I'd argue strongly that it is at least a Philosophy. And while I'm not quite sure what Associate Professor means in Taiwan, in the US, it seems to mean A mid-level, usually tenured, professor. So all things considered, this seems to be a reasonable expert writing in his area of specialty, and he's not making any particularly controversial claims, he's mainly doing a reading of Time Cube and responses to it. I think http://www.lib.hcu.edu.tw/journal/files/CAS/CAS0206.pdf is a perfectly fine paper for purposes of this article. --GRuban (talk) 07:07, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

who says this "illustrates a recurring theme"

The Maine Campus article does in its third paragraph.[8] Again, perhaps it needs a rewrite, but it is supported by the source. I don't feel like wasting my time on this silly article but it is discouraging to see these inappropriate tags slapped on here, perhaps in an attempt to make some kind of point. Dlabtot (talk) 19:36, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Opinions need attributions, not just a citation. The casual reader needs to know whose opinion he's been given. The "someone is saying" approach is weasel and a breach of the manual of style.--Scott Mac 19:51, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

That's why I said it should be rewritten to match what the source says instead of having an inappropriate tag put on it. Dlabtot (talk) 20:00, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

So be bold and fix it. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:53, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I can't be bothered.--Scott Mac 19:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

If you can't be bothered to work to improve the article, please stop vandalizing it with inaccurate, disruptive tags. Dlabtot (talk) 20:15, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Pointing out issues isn't disruptive, particularly on a BLP. I won't stop that, no. If it annoys you then leave it for someone else to fix.--Scott Mac 20:26, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Scott Mac is correct. Identifying an issue and tagging it does not confer an obligation to fix the issue. ++Lar: t/c 01:02, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Somewhere is a policy or guideline (or perhaps an essay?) that says something about not to tag and run. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Which Scott Mac didn't do. He stuck around to explain what the issue is, through several posts. He's just not signing up to fix it himself, nor should he (or anyone in particular) have to. ++Lar: t/c 05:54, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

BRD - Claims of website containing racist ideologies

This citation is a weak claim to attribute racism to a project that is attributed to a living person. .. which includes some racist ideology. http://mainecampus.com/2004/09/24/timecubecom-where-reality-as-we-know-it-is-a-lie. This issue was brought up at the BLPN here and I agree. I removed it with this edit summary - removing racist claim, weak citation aand was reverted by User:GDallimore with the edit summary - revert bold removal of sourced material without good explanation. Off2riorob (talk) 15:45, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

BLP is not relevant here. It doesn't accuse Ray of being racist personally, it says the website has some racist content. GDallimore (Talk) 15:48, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Its a poor citation for any such claim and it does reflect on the living person. It add nothing of value, is the magazine a racist publication or known as a racist magazine , if not it should be removed, Is there another stronger citation that supports the claim? At the very least if it is not removed(which it should be) it should be attributed, as, (whoever it is), a college writer in a college magazine (or whatever it is ) opined that he thought the Cube included some racist ideology. Off2riorob (talk) 15:52, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't see any of that opinionated, badly proof-read edit you made being required by the BLP guideline. It had an inline citation to a source that appears to be reliable. If you're actually talking about NPOV, maybe we can have a sensible discussion, but your edits and motivations do not appear to be remotely based on the BLP guidelines. GDallimore (Talk) 18:49, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

The reviewer goes further than the "subtle little racist ideologies" phrase Off2riorob quotes - the full paragraph is that "If you continue to scroll down the endless page, you’ll notice subtle little racist ideologies. It builds and builds, until finally he explodes with “Integration is a racial slop, destroying all of the races.”"

The relevant sentence of the article is already saying that "The site has been criticised for...", it'd be redundant to add extra "this is the view of a critic" context around the racism at the end of the sentence. --McGeddon (talk) 19:48, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

The previous criticism is from another citation altogether and written by someone who has a degree of notability to his comment John C. Dvorak and I notice he does not mention racism at all. Are there any notable perople or citations that suggest this site has racist issues or is a racist site? I strongly suspect there are not. My rejection of this not notable persons opinion is in regards to the BLP concerns that his single opinion in so not notable and we should not put his allegations in the article without some stronger support from other much more reliable and notable sources. Yes the BLP concerns as to the way we are alleging through this not notable student writers opinion that there are racist aspects to the web site when the web site is directly attributed to a single person, and as I said the simple fact that this persons opinions are not in themselves notable in any way at all. Off2riorob (talk) 20:02, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Then quote the relevant part of the guideline. GDallimore (Talk) 22:14, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't need a quote, its undue opinion from a not notable person that is not supported with any mainstream citations or opinions from mainstream locations than his own single not notable opinion. Please comment as to why you think this persons opinion is worthy of perpetuating through this wikipedia? Perhaps you know he is an expect on racism or qualified in something related, or his opinions on similar issues have been reported in other wiki reliable locations, or his opinion is supported in some way by anyone else at all? Off2riorob (talk) 22:30, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

The unknown Jonny briggs wrote in a student paper that he thinks the website has got racist ideologies, no one else commented and no one else reported the same opinion. Off2riorob (talk) 22:32, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Don't be sarcastic. The Maine Campus paper thought it worthwhile printing his opinion. Unless you have some evidence that this is an unreliable publication, everything else you have to say is irrelevant. And if you're going to say that BLP supports your edits, of course you have to quote the relevant part of the guideline. The fact is, BLP doesn't support your edits, so stop hiding behind it to further to personal agenda. GDallimore (Talk) 22:47, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

You also appear not to know the guidelines on verifiability. Notability, which you keep referring to, is not remotely relevant. Reliability is. GDallimore (Talk) 22:50, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Please don't personally attack me. The comment above is meant to expose to you what you are attempting to support. So if he is an expect on racism or qualified in something related, or his opinions on similar issues have been reported in other wiki reliable locations, or his opinion is supported in some way by anyone else at all? Off2riorob (talk) 22:52, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

What I'm saying is that the authorship doesn't matter - its the publication that matters, a point which you are continually overlooking. And there is not a single saying saying the site ISN'T racist, so the clear majority of sources supports the idea that it contains racist ideologies. GDallimore (Talk) 22:58, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

1-0 is not a "clear majority" in this context. Find other, more reliable, sources and use those. Or present the information in a way that lets the reader judge reliability for themselves, by wording it using an inline description of what was said, who said it, and where it was said. For impeccably reliable sources, footnoted references are fine, but for marginal ones like this the detail should be given. ++Lar: t/c 01:00, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict)And finally, let's get to the point of verifiability. Is this an opinion which anyone would challenge? Does anyone challenge or are they likely to challenge that the statement "White people are not obligated to nurture the black race - when actually dark and light should exist on opposite corners of Earth as depicted by midday and midnight. The white race is actually stupid to give welfare and integrate with the Black Race, who in time will slaughter them" contains racist ideologies? GDallimore (Talk) 22:56, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Student newspapers print a lot of things. That doesn't mean we're forced to take note of them. That it can be sourced to something doesn't mean that it automatically deserves inclusion. If any random student's op-ed from any random school's paper has to be included...we're in for some interesting times ahead on multiple articles. I'd be surprised if the opinion couldn't be found elsewhere, but if this kid is the only one to comment on it, I don't see why we should care. --Onorem♠Dil 23:01, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea, just because you think this not notable persons comments in a student newspaper are correct does not make them worthy of propagation here. Authorship does matter, especially if that one racist claim is unsupported anywhere else, as such, it is a single controversial claim of a not notable person in a student newspaper and we should as such not allow his personal unsupported opinion be propagated through the wikipedia. Off2riorob (talk) 23:02, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

You still haven't answered the relevant question. What is there to suggest that The Maine Campus is unreliable? Unless you have evidence that it is unreliable, then it meets the criteria for inclusion. GDallimore (Talk) 23:07, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Again, that it can be sourced to something doesn't mean that it automatically deserves inclusion...whether the source is generally reliable or not. I'm not making a BLP argument on this, more a consensus one. Should we head to the beard article and add that "Having a beard is pretty sweet," or to the The University of Maine article to make note of it being a "stonerschool?" --Onorem♠Dil 23:38, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Off2riorob and others are correct. A lifestyle column in a student newspaper is not a reliable source. The entry cannot remain worded the way it was worded at the time of the AfD. An alternate wording that makes clear the source might just be acceptable, but the way it was... that was a BLP violation. The whole article is very poorly sourced. ++Lar: t/c 00:39, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

How can it be a BLP violation when the BLP guideline says none of this? GDallimore (Talk) 13:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

For starters all material must be reliably sourced. (second para of WP:BLP Be very firm about the use of high quality sources.) College newspapers, and especially columns in college newspapers, just are not reliable sources. As long as the wording indicates that this is the view of the writer of a lifestyle article in a college newspaper, the BLP concern of reliable sourcing is addressed (the way it was worded at the start of the AfD was unacceptable. The way it is worded as of the last time I checked is OK on that score). But that then raises an undue weight problem, absent more sources, this view isn't really worthy of inclusion (even if true, we go by verifiability and by preponderance, not truth, per WP:NPOV... find more sources rather than arguing the material contains the assertions). Also, you seem to be arguing against the apparent consensus here. When arguing for removal of something negative, that's a tenable position, as BLP trumps local consensus and supports removal of questionable material until the matter is resolved. But when arguing for inclusion of something negative, it does not. Hope that helps. Note also that the burden of evidence is on you, the restorer of material, not on the removers. ++Lar: t/c 13:47, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Right, finally someone who isn't just mouthing off their opinions so some sort of sensible discussion can be held. OK, why isn't a college paper reliable? It appears to have editorial overview and has a wide distribution not just among the students, but also faculty and other staff. Where is there any indication that they do not have a reputation for fact checking? This gives every indication of a quality publication irrespective of the fact that it is produced by students.

Then we have undue. Undue is about fairly representing significant views. ie, if it were a minority view that racist ideologies are mentioned on the website, then it would not be worth mentioning. But it does not work here because it is not a minority view. No other sources have been found to dispute this source in order to put it into the minority. Multiple sources are a requirement for notability, not for whether a fact is worthy of mentioning in an article. Also, as I've already said, this is not a fact which any reasonable person would dispute so a single source with no other sources which dispute it is perfectly adequate.

And finally npov, as a more generalised version of undue, also does not suggest removal either: views must be represented proportionately and we have one source saying there's racist ideology, none saying there isn't. So, proportionately, the viewpoint is a significant one.

Also, so far, there has been no conensus to remove it, so I am not argung against consensus. A load of people saying "oh, it's rude so it violates BLP" without giving any reasonable arguments (until you weighed in) are not arguments which can form a consensus but merely a force of numbers barrage. There's a huge difference and I will not bow to numbers without sensible arguments to back them up. GDallimore (Talk) 18:57, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh, one more thing. Where in BLP does it say that a messy in-text mention of the source of the opinion is necessary rather than a simple inline citation which achieves exactly the same thing more succintly. Perversely, the way it is currently written with a paragraph devoted to the issue, is increasing the amount of weight given to the issue whereas before it was just one in a list of critcisms of this nutty website which has been criticised by everyone who comments on it. GDallimore (Talk) 19:00, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

In the absence of further discussion, I will at least reword the currently misrepresentative summary of the editorial as describing "subtle little racist ideologies"; it clearly says how these subtleties build towards an "explosive" opposition to racial integration. --McGeddon (talk) 09:54, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Precursor?

Does this section belong here? This is not a biography of Gene Ray, and other than him I see nothing linking these?.--Scott Mac 22:03, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

So in one he's writing about how the important thing about the world/life/time/philosophy is that it's a cube; they're all cubes; something like that. In the other, the important thing is that it needs to be a sphere. I couldn't think of a BLP conforming way to say that the St. Petersburg reference I'm citing strongly implies that this sphere thing had taken Ray beyond the bounds of merely being a charming eccentric, who used to be actually popular when people just thought he liked marbles, but perhaps somewhere wiser than I can, because it certainly does. Surely the similarities to Time Cube are clear? The idea is to indicate the evolution of the philosophy. --GRuban (talk) 00:12, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Since Gene Ray redirects here, and that is how I found this page, there actually *should* be some biographical information on him here. I don't think that at this point he's notable enough to have his own page, except in relation to this. 71.13.147.17 (talk) 18:21, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Marbles

Never had the term "losing ones marbles" been more suitable on both levels for one man! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.178.100.26 (talk) 16:36, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Examples of racism, homophobia, and advocacy of murder

The site is racist through and through. The fact that wikipedia considers this site notable is ridiculous, but then the fact that wikipedians think the site is not racist shows how ignorant wikipedians are. The site is neither clever nor fun. It's the blather of a mentally ill Jew-hating gay-bashing racist.

He claims that Jews "deserved" to be exterminated by the Nazis and claims to know why:

I know now why the Jews deserved their holocaust - worshipping their own adult EGO image

He claims that Jews enslave people through religion (including Christianity) and through academia:

Jew owners of religious/academic christianity -- have enslaved your ass, and you are too stupid to know you are a slave

He links homosexuality to Jewishness:

Mother and father gave me birth, not a queer jew god.

He advocates placing homosexuals in reservations and gives a reason for this:

About time for Queer colony. Queers killed my lil Brother.

He promotes murder of American Christians and Jews:

It's not immoral to kill Americans who IGNORE their OPPOSITE sex parents who Created them, but instead worship a queer jew

And that's just from the first page -- the site goes on for more pages, and there is more of the same. 64.142.90.33 (talk) 05:36, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I think you have a point - our article should say more about the overall tone of the Time Cube web site. I have added a sentence with a quote from TV Tropes about this. As regards notability, the fact that a topic is considered to pass Wikipedia's notability guideline is not a value judgement, and does not signify any sort of approval of the topic or its advocates. Gandalf61 (talk) 08:18, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't think any editors are arguing that the site is "not racist", just that it's difficult to find a reliable source that describes the site as racist. The Maine Campus article seems to have been accepted, though, and Ray's thoughts on racial integration are described in the article.

(I've cut the TV Tropes source, per WP:BLPSPS - it's an open wiki, so shouldn't be used to source information about a living person.) --McGeddon (talk) 08:37, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, I don't see how WP:BLPSPS applies, since the subject of this article is the Time Cube concept and web site, not its author, and the quote is also about the contents of the web site and not about its author. But its your call. Gandalf61 (talk) 08:50, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Fair point, although commenting on the output of a single-author site is nearer to BLP than, say, describing a huge community forum site where racism and homophobia might be endemic. We are saying "this single author here writes racist and homophobic things", it's no different to "this published author wrote a racist book" - we'd need a good source for that.

Stepping back, though, WP:SPS rules out an open wiki as a source for anything. --McGeddon (talk) 09:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the problem here is that the Time Cube site has turned nasty in recent years but its RS coverage pre-dates this. When it started it was wacky without being malicious and people wanted to write about that. These days nobody is taking any notice of it so we don't have any RS source to use to support this stuff, even though we can all see what has happened. --DanielRigal (talk) 10:05, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

First, if you're going to quote the part about the Jews deserving the holocaust, at least present the entire quote -- "I know now why the Jews deserved their holocaust - worshipping their own adult EGO image as a damn god while ignoring and betraying the very children who sacrifice their LIFE so their Moms and Dads could Live." I don't take that so much anti-Jew as anti-Adultism, he merely believes Judaism is inherently Adultist and as a result fell into some pretty hard rhetoric there.

Also, he isn't linking homosexuality to Judaism there. He is saying that the Abrahamic God, being male without a primary female counterpart, is inherently homosexual and non-creative -- that's as opposed to (in his own words from conversations we've had) the ideal Gods which would be a mother, father, daughter and son creating the universe together. 38.112.4.154 (talk) 14:27, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Multiple applications to remove

I think the fact that there is so much discussion on this topic shows that it is worth keeping. This site has stuck in my mind for being one of the wierdest on the internet since I came across it 10 years ago. Also, just because some of you find it offensive, doesn't mean Wikipedia should remove all reference to it. If it bothers you that much, take Gene Ray to court. leopheard (talk) 22:36, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the article should be kept for the entertaining talk page! The site in itself is incredibly boring, but anything that can create this much discussion just must be notable. And for the rest: we editors need to have some fun betwixt all typo corrections and other cleanups. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 19:37, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Extlinks

Please can people give their opinions on the merits of including the two following links. User:Theseus1776 has added them multiple times and I have removed them multiple times. Clearly we need to break the deadlock.

• http://thebookofthelaw.com/2011/02/04/cubic-clock-official-clock-of-the-church-of-time-cube/ Cubic Clock
• http://thebookofthelaw.com/2011/02/04/the-liturgy-of-the-cube-by-xix-time-cube-com Liturgy of the Cube and the Smashing of the Spherical/Non-Cubic Shaped Fruit

All comments, pro and anti, are welcome but please try to explain why you feel the links are appropriate or inappropriate. --DanielRigal (talk) 22:12, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Am I missing something or is this just a blog making fun of Time Cube by pretending to establish a religion around it? 28bytes (talk) 22:20, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I am not sure if it is serious, semi-serious or a joke. It might be serious. It is hard to tell as even genuine Time Cube has been assumed to be a joke by some people and some other people take some very strange stuff very seriously indeed. --DanielRigal (talk) 22:30, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

It is serious. I emailed the blog and found that it is a religious group that teaches Time Cube. Perhaps there should be a sub-section to discuss the religious aspects of Time Cube and "Cubicism."Theseus1776 (talk) 02:02, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

• "'Support inclusion'". Regardless of whether or not Gene Ray authored or authorized these texts is irrelevant. What is relevant is that there are practitioners who follow his teachings as a religion per se. They do expand on Time Cube and show the development of his theory into a religious following. Ray has also authored esoteric texts such as the "Code of the Pyramid" and the "Bucket of Gems." Theseus1776 (talk) 02:02, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose inclusion. I see the links as irrelevant and inauthentic. They are just anonymous articles on an anonymous blog. There is no demonstrated link to genuine Time Cube. The article does not mention a Time Cube related church, religion, liturgy or "cubic clock" and the ideas presented in the articles bear little resemblance to the genuine Time Cube. It seems to be fan writing and fails to illuminate the topic in hand, which is genuine Time Cube as expounded by Gene Ray (and anybody else who can be demonstrated to actually be in league with him in this undertaking).
  I believe that the inclusion of these links is contrary to the policy Wikipedia:External links which says (in part) "Some acceptable links include those that contain further research that is accurate and on-topic" (emphasis mine). This is neither of those things. --DanielRigal (talk) 22:30, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't know how they don't expand on Time Cube or are not accurate or on topic. They are accurate to Ray's teachings and are on topic in that they support Time Cube. Theseus1776 (talk) 02:02, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I simply can't see any authenticity in them. If you can demonstrate some then I would be happy to reconsider but the onus is on you to demonstrate that. As I currently see it, the ideas expressed here are substantially different from Ray's and the authors are probably not directly associated with him. Think about how we would handle this if we were dealing with a more mainstream religion or philosophy. We would never link a random blog of non-mainstream speculations to the articles on Christianity or Buddhism. What makes those links particularly concerning is their (mis)use of the word "official" to suggest that they speak for Time Cube in some sort of an authorised capacity. There is no evidence that they do. I honestly believe that a typical person reading those links would end up with less idea of what Time Cube is about than before. They actually detract from the article. --DanielRigal (talk) 22:57, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose inclusion. As intriguing as the idea of Time Cube fan fiction might be, I have to agree with DanielRigal that WP:EL doesn't support inclusion of these links. 28bytes (talk) 22:59, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

2 cents

In my opinion, this guy is trying to build some sort of cult, with little sucess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.137.64.162 (talk) 13:19, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree, except he might become successful – not by his own effort – but by someone thinking of how to profit from the strange reification fallacies characterizing his thinking. His numerical exercises seems to be similar to those characteristic for Gnosticism, Kabbalism, Numerology etc., and the hate/fear against the surrounding culture could attract some fuzzy-headed paranoid person, trying to find shelter in a strange and hostile world. In my experience cultic thinkers seems to find self-approbation by just finding like-minded with whom to speak the "secret messages" of the cultic ideology, although that won't work for most people. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 08:57, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

I know this isn't a chat room, but let's turn this into a cult and make it similar to the Heaven's Gate cult! 71.177.0.120 (talk) 22:42, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

I've talked to Gene on a couple occasions. He is definitely not trying to start a cult. He is just a little old retired electrician from Georgia with some wacky ideas. 38.112.4.154 (talk) 14:04, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that this page is not a forum? -- Fyrefly (talk) 14:55, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Referance 2

"Metasites that track crackpot sites often say this is the number one nutty site." is sited by reference 2. Would it be better to get a first hand source like the Metasites he refers to or at least include them as corroborating references? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Donhoraldo (talk • contribs) 01:20, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Schizophrenia

The writing on the Time Cube site exhibits characteristics consistent with the author suffering from schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder. For the sake of completeness the article should mention this. Jeremybornstein (talk) 01:38, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Only if it can be reliably sourced.--Taylornate (talk) 04:59, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, which is why I put it here to potentially catch the eye of someone else who has the inclination and time to put up with the official policy here for such things. Jeremybornstein (talk) 18:41, 30 November 2011 (UTC)