Talk:Titanic (1997 film)

References to use

Please add to the list references that can be used for the film article.

• Barker, Martin; Austin, Thomas (2000). "Titanic: A Knight to Remember". From Antz To Titanic: Reinventing Film Analysis. Pluto Press. pp. 87–104. ISBN 0745315844. 
• Palmer, William J. (2009). "The New Historicist Films". The Films of the Nineties: The Decade of Spin. Palgrave Macmillan. pp. 24–37. ISBN 0230613446. 
• Zizek, Slavoj (2001). "The Thing from Inner Space: Titanic and Deep Impact". In Gabbard, Glen O. Psychoanalysis and Film. International Journal of Psychoanalysis Key Paper Series. Karnac Books. ISBN 1855752751. 

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Erik (talk • contribs) 19:44, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

The Cast list

An editor keeps adding cast members that are non integral to the plot (see [1]). This is supposed to be a GA article, and yet the editor is adding cast members in a manner that doesn't comply with WP:CASTLIST i.e. no sources, no background content on their casting, and in non-essential parts. I've removed these cast additions several times and asked the editor to consult the Film style guidelines but it seems to no avail. I'm getting tired of it now, so are we going to permit these cast additions or should I take it to ANI? We need a consensus either way, so what are other people's views on it? Betty Logan (talk) 08:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Hey Betty, long time no type at. Unless something drastic has changes with the project since I've been around regularly, I 100% agree with your reversions and the rationale behind them. I'm still rather light wiki so I doubt I can help much with keeping it cleaned up. If the editor has been warned sufficiently to look at the relevant guidelines, I'd go to ANI. The edits are disruptive and non-constructive, though it looks like the editor means well, at a glance. Millahnna (talk) 16:54, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

I don't think this is problem editing. For one thing, the bar is too high to say that someone can't be listed unless there is background on their casting. That would lead to many anomalies, especially with older films. Perhaps anyone with a speaking role can be included for a film of this prominence...? Then maybe another editor sees a name for which some background exists and is prompted to include it. But maybe I don't understand the purpose of restricting the list instead of trying to be punctilious that it is complete. Am I missing something? --Ring Cinema (talk) 01:21, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I can understand the logic in listing actors who played real life counterparts, and as a 'bar' everyone who is mentioned in the plot summary should probably be also covered, along with any other casting that is noteworthy, but if you list every single person in the film then you effectively turn the article into one giant cast list. The bottom line is that it isn't consistent with WP:CASTLIST, so if the guideline is no longer relevant then we should actively ditch it or revise it; while it stands it should probably be adhered to since it presumably represents the consensus of the film project. Betty Logan (talk) 10:20, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, you are right, Titanic has special problems, and maybe the cast deserves its own article. (It's a little strange that the link is named castlist when a cast list is supposedly not so good.) Isn't there an issue of completeness here or do you think the rest of the internet covers it? Where to set the bar is not simple, but there are several ways to do it (every character mentioned in the plot summary, everyone who speaks, everyone who has a name, everyone who appears, everyone who is spoken to, everyone in the credits). To me it's odd that on one hand IMDb is considered unreliable yet the rationale for leaving the cast list incomplete has to be that they cover it for us. I believe that IMDb was labeled unreliable for critical reception and somehow that bled on its rather complete coverage of the movies. And my view is that only including the cast in the plot section is a mashup. --Ring Cinema (talk) 15:39, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

With the exception of characters like Fabrizio, I agree with removing characters who are unimportant or very minor to the plot. We don't list "Woman who made [so and so] comment," for example. That's just not how cast/character lists are supposed to be on Wikipedia, or else such lists would be filled with things like "Boy #1," and so on. Ring Cinema, there used to be a characters list for this topic, but it was redirected here after being deemed unneeded and too difficult to manage (the rampant original research and vandalism that plagued the article). In fact, that list must have been deleted because List of characters in Titanic (1997) and Characters of Titanic (1997), which are redirects, don't show the edit histories or talk page discussions I saw back then. Flyer22 (talk) 16:24, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Protection?

Is it really necessary to protect this page? Its a movie. Its not an article like Politics, Grass, etc. Ruler of Coasters  Talk  19:31, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Articles don't get protected for jollies. If it has been protected there is obviously a reason for it. Betty Logan (talk) 19:47, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Its a movie! Why don't we go protect the Hugo article, then? If were going to partly block a article on a movie, then Wikipedia should only be able to be edited by users, then. Ruler of Coasters  Talk  19:36, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand the distinction you are making. If there are problems on a page, a block sometimes helps. It's normal. --Ring Cinema (talk) 19:48, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

New user account, created in the last couple of weeks. My guess is that Kata89 is either very unfamiliar with the practices of Wikipedia, or very familiar with them. Betty Logan (talk) 19:51, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Here is my problem...Were locking a page about a movie. Pages like WWII, Politics, or the original Titanic page makes sense. I don't get why we are protecting a page about a movie. Ruler of Coasters  Talk  13:52, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

The only disinction we make between articles is those about living people and those that aren't. If a film article is more subsceptible to disruptive editing than the WW2 article, then there is a stronger case for protecting it. Betty Logan (talk) 14:07, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Kata89, even articles about movies fall victim to vandalism or other such disruptive editing and need semi-protection. The semi-protection usually does not last too long for film articles, though (a couple of weeks or a month at most), and will eventually be unprotected. In some cases, long protection is issued. This article's protection-rationale, for example, states that it will be unprotected on September 5, 2012. If editors agree to unprotect it before then, unprotection can be done. Sometimes it is done by an administrator who happens upon the article and feels that unprotection should be given another try. But I want to be very clear that this article has endured a lot of vandalism and other disruptive editing. The same goes for the Avatar (2009 film) article. That is why these two articles are locked. Yes, we can simply revert disruption, but that is tiresome when it is consistent. And since we can somewhat stop/avoid such disruption by semi-protecting, semi-protecting makes a lot more sense. Flyer22 (talk) 16:24, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Oh, that makes a lot more sense. I just thought since it was a classic film, were protecting it so anonymous contributes can't edit it. Ruler of Coasters  Talk  20:26, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 22 February 2012

Bernard Fox as Colonel Archibald Gracie IV: The film depicts Gracie making a comment to Cal that "women and machinery don't mix", and congratulating Jack for saving Rose from falling off the ship, though he is unaware that it was a suicide attempt. While the film depicts Gracie with a British accent, he was in fact American. Archibald Gracie survived the sinking on the overturned Collapsible B. Fox also portrayed lookout Frederick Fleet in the 1958 film A Night to Remember.

Bernard Fox as Colonel Archibald Gracie IV: The film depicts Gracie making a comment to Cal that "women and machinery don't mix", and Congratulating Jack for saving Rose from falling off the ship, though he is unaware that it was a suicide attempt. Born in Port Talbot, Glamorgan, Wales, U.K., which accounts for his British ascent, Archibald Gracie survived the sinking on the overturned Collapsible B. Fox also portrayed lookout Frederick Fleet in the 1958 film A Night to Remember.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Fox_%28actor%29 Wfpenn (talk) 06:44, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Archibald Gracie IV was American. This is a summary of the historical person, not the actor. Betty Logan (talk) 06:59, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 22 February 2012

Bernard Fox as Colonel Archibald Gracie IV: The film depicts Gracie making a comment to Cal that "women and machinery don't mix", and congratulating Jack for saving Rose from falling off the ship, though he is unaware that it was a suicide attempt. While the film depicts Gracie with a British accent, he was in fact American. Archibald Gracie survived the sinking on the overturned Collapsible B. Fox also portrayed lookout Frederick Fleet in the 1958 film A Night to Remember.

Bernard Fox as Colonel Archibald Gracie IV: The film depicts Gracie making a comment to Cal that "women and machinery don't mix", and Congratulating Jack for saving Rose from falling off the ship, though he is unaware that it was a suicide attempt. Born in Port Talbot, Glamorgan, Wales, U.K., which accounts for his British ascent, Archibald Gracie survived the sinking on the overturned Collapsible B. Fox also portrayed lookout Frederick Fleet in the 1958 film A Night to Remember.

Wfpenn (talk) 06:50, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

See above. Betty Logan (talk) 07:01, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 22 February 2012

Please change paragraph 1 to paragraph 2

Bernard Fox as Colonel Archibald Gracie IV: The film depicts Gracie making a comment to Cal that "women and machinery don't mix", and congratulating Jack for saving Rose from falling off the ship, though he is unaware that it was a suicide attempt. While the film depicts Gracie with a British accent, he was in fact American. Archibald Gracie survived the sinking on the overturned Collapsible B. Fox also portrayed lookout Frederick Fleet in the 1958 film A Night to Remember.

Bernard Fox as Colonel Archibald Gracie IV: The film depicts Gracie making a comment to Cal that "women and machinery don't mix", and Congratulating Jack for saving Rose from falling off the ship, though he is unaware that it was a suicide attempt. Born in Port Talbot, Glamorgan, Wales, U.K., which accounts for his British ascent, Archibald Gracie survived the sinking on the overturned Collapsible B. Fox also portrayed lookout Frederick Fleet in the 1958 film A Night to Remember.

Wfpenn (talk) 07:01, 22 February 2012 (UTC)william

Request denied. Fox was Welsh, NOT Gracie. This is a summary of the character, not the actor. If you are dissatisified with my decision, then re-set the template answer to 'no' and someone else can review your request, but please stop spamming the talk page with edit requests. Betty Logan (talk) 07:08, 22 February 2012 (UTC)