Talk:Tizen

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samsung nx-300 and nx2000[edit]

use tizen os. why not even any mention? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.247.155.239 (talk) 01:17, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Confirmed : Samsung published firmware code for latest NXs and it's definitely Tizen-based. Added with source in "Market releases" section. Herisson26 (talk) 10:24, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

"Free and Open Source" vs Proprietary SDK[edit]

Is it really justified to call Tizen "free and open source" when the SDK is being distributed under a proprietary license? Hweimer (talk) 15:17, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Link is broken. Can't find anything about a proprietary sdk. Have you got more sources? Thanks. -- Lexischemen (talk) 12:02, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
Yes, as long as the SDK contains only the compilation environment and does not include part of the source code - i.e. it can be ported to other compilation environments/toolchains. If the SDK contains libraries that are under propietary license, those libraries are not free and open source (doh!). Is there any published analysis of the licensing terms? Diego (talk) 10:33, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
I've edited the lead to clarify the SDK license. It only extends to the toolchain and programming environment, so the runtime engine and libraries seem to be free themselves (lacking further evidence of the contrary). Diego (talk) 18:10, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
As much as I like the SDK, and some fixes made by User:Nyssen, the link [1] is not broken. Moreover such a license is presented for acceptance upon the SDK installation. So how about cleaning up (mostly reverting the removal) the information about current status of licensing - non-free SDK tools? There's nowhere a public place to download the source code of SDK. I am not claiming the API is closed - it copies a number of JS-based codes, so to avoid license violation it has to be open. But APIs are not equal the whole SDK. I am claiming that in order to use application-development functionality of the current Tizen SDK, one needs to accept proprietary license, install, and execute one or more closed-source binaries. One needs no analysis of licensing - the tools are not only non-free in FSF terms but so far also closed-source. Whether they are freeware or payware does not matter. --Malagajoe (talk) 19:49, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Is the SDK proprietary? The page says freeware, though that is vague. If the SDK is actually proprietary then the SDK should be considered proprietary. --Trakon (talk) 21:55, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Which open source license[edit]

Under which license is Tizen published? This should be included in this article. Also, the beta just came out today :) -- Lexischemen (talk) 12:02, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't this page mention Bada?[edit]

Shouldn't this page mention Bada, the previous Samsung mobile operating system? How is Tizen related to Bada, did anything get brought from one platform to the other or did they just switch entirely to Meego code? MJaggard (talk) 10:08, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Tizen is not related to Bada but Samsung will probably install the Tizen browser on Bada phones. (Just for the record: Bada HTML5 score = 283 (56%), Tizen score = 485 (97%) atm) Nyssen (talk) 02:48, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Controversy section blanked[edit]

A section titled "controversy" ("weasel-wording" template added in July) was blanked (by a 'red' editor) on Oct. 10, 2012. The section and its citations can be viewed here if anyone wants to fix that up and get it back. (Just a note, do not message me on it. Certainly part of Tizen history that will need re-integration at some point.) Twang (talk) 14:20, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

I've added a complete family tree which shows the infinite complexity of Tizen's history. It's open source and a WIP: https://github.com/kumadasu/tizen-history Nyssen (talk) 02:31, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
According to this nice detailed family tree Tizen is based on SLP, what is IMO correct, as this was also result of my research (many places site involved developers, e.g. [2]), and was put in the article before removal. Now the article claims Tizen is based on LiMo -- without any material backing this claim. Moreover the references to MeeGo are clear and direct, unlike to LiMo. Tizen IVI is largely based on MeeGo IVI. Also the family tree correctly references to MeeGo. So this part could be better rephrased "Samsung's collaboration with the Enlightenment project and especially Carsten Haitzler was known as LiMo for years. When Intel joined the project in September 2011 after its MeeGo failure, it was renamed Tizen." - because the "it" here is MeeGo not LiMo. Tizen and MeeGo are Linux Foundation projects which owns both names. And the transition (if not rename) was from MeeGo, not from LiMo (which was never largely and open platform but a product of a consortium based workforce). See the announcement by LF itself [3]. --Malagajoe (talk) 20:05, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
SLP (Samsung Linux Platform, internal name) = LiMo (external name). Someone should write an article about the history of Linux on mobile, a perfect subject for endless and useless discussions. Nyssen (talk) 10:16, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
LiMo is a name of the industrial consortium, SLP is the reference platform provided by Samsung (as the major force) for LiMo. Tizen is an effort to open it up (i.e. it's open compared to what LiMo had - membership was paid and you have to be a heavyweight). Tizen's source code is the SLP's source code - the git repositories are managed by Samsung engineers, what is mentioned on mailing lists, in contact (email @samsung.com, not limofoundation.org or so). More history is still accessible at [4]. The author of the family tree was already corrected at [5]. So could please we show the fact - the origins of Tizen is SLP (and a bit of MeeGo)? --Malagajoe (talk) 20:17, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

"The article should mention my favorite OS, browser, toolkit"[edit]

I've mentioned the main OSs which are related to Tizen:

  • LiMo (aka SLP or Samsung Linux Platform) and MeeGo, for historical reasons;
  • Firefox OS: same concept as Tizen, uses Gecko (Tizen: WebKit);
  • WebOS: the Tizen/Firefox precursor;

I've also added a link to the HTML5 test: OSs or browsers with a score > 400 (= 80%) can be considered as part of the ecosystem: http://html5test.com/results/mobile.html

  • Tizen: 485
  • Blackberry 10: 484
  • Dolphin: 469
  • Opera Mobile: 406

and on the desktop http://html5test.com/results/desktop.html

  • Maxthon: 457
  • Chrome: 448

are part of the family, which will grow every month on every platform (TVs, tablets, vehicles, appliances). Sorry but we can't mention every OS, browser or toolkit in this article. Nyssen (talk) 02:13, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

How Tizen is "the culmination of a long process of Linux adoption by manufacturers" ?[edit]

According to the family tree[6] it is at most a culmination along with Mer (operating system). How about fixing this pompous wording? --Malagajoe (talk) 19:34, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Agreed: the wording has been changed. Nyssen (talk) 04:21, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

References to EFL (Enlightenment)[edit]

There are at least four references to EFL (Enlightenment). I propose to reduce this to zero otherwise my favourite GTK3 has to be there too since it's present within the packages [7] too. I perceive all the mentions of EFL as unrelated details if not something that confuses the reader. "November 5, 2012: First EFL Developer Day at LinuxCon Europe in Barcelona." What's that?
Nowhere within the tizen.org 2.0 documentation sites and in the FAQs support for EFL is even mentioned or suggested or considered: 1. The architecture diagram clearly indicates Web framework as the only application layer [8]. 2. The FAQ says "Tizen provides a standards-based software platform for multiple device categories, which supports Web applications."; even if tizen.org's content is outdated (I do not believe to be honest) EFL is by no means a web framework if I understand correctly. 3. Attached application samples only refer to the web framework [9]. 4. The Developer Guide linked at the central https://developer.tizen.org is called Web App Guide, not EFL App Guide. --Malagajoe (talk) 20:30, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

EFL is a major component of Tizen. The fact that it's not mentioned on tizen.org doesn't really matter. I've deleted 2 references to EFL: EFL Developer Day + link in External links section. Nyssen (talk) 05:09, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
The fact is that nobody in the team officially confirms the claim EFL is a major component of Tizen, not just within tizen.org. Tizen can work without EFL (e.g. can be replaced by GTK or WebKit/GTK or Qt as Tizen IVI users do) but cannot remove the Linux Kernel. No the kernel with GNU libraries the main (constant) component.
Please note, the wikipedia article has to refer to the current state, declaration by the interested parties (actual developers). There can be history (exposition of EFL fits there) and the plans mentioned (if there are plans related to EFL), all backed by evidence - links. If you open the SDK app, there's no trace of EFL APIs for application development so I see no point in advertising for example EasyUI which for current Tizen is not the officially supported technology. The article to be actually useful, it covers technologies, concepts and parts of the architecture, not semi-products or implementation details. Otherwise we could have to mention e.g. pango library without which you won't display any text on Tizen devices. Actually after looking at the list of EFL components, not many of them are used: graphics is based on HTML5 canvas and/or jquery (higher layers), not EFL's elementary, business logic of the apps is based on javascript, javascript implementation itself come from WebKit/V8 not from an EFL library. EFL lacks mobile device integration, it is instead added to the WebKit layer and can be used e.g. by phonegap. If you look at https://sites.google.com/site/slvnjung/, in the process of transition from SLP to Tizen, EFL and GTK was removed from the public part of the architecture: [10]. See also Unlike other device platforms, the primary development application development environment for Tizen is focused exclusively on HTML5. So how about removing claims that EFL (EasyUI) is the public API for Tizen appliactions, it is default user interface, and ? Because it's the web, not EFL. I think I've provided enough of evidence. Regards! --Malagajoe (talk) 21:00, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
https://events.linuxfoundation.org/images/stories/pdf/lceu2012_haitzler.pdf (see pages 38-42). EasyUI is in the Related Projects section btw. Nyssen (talk) 16:40, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
This link does not back your individual opinion - this article is on Tizen (1 and 2) and as such needs to be based on evidence, not on a private opinion. If you try to install and use the SDK, read the documentation, web pages and ask on the forum, it will be easier for you to understand the shape and scope of Tizen. Even the presentation you link backs the neutral view presented by the official web site - see p. 26. On other pages EFL is covered by WebKit, what is typical application of WebKit also in case of GTK+ or Qt or Mac libs - it is still WebKit, enabler of web technologies that's actually used for writing apps for Tizen. I'd like to remind that this Wikipedia article is not a place for lobbying or advertising other options - feel free to contact the Association in order to do so, then the Article shall be updated. --Malagajoe (talk) 20:14, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
The Tizen GUI(s) + ALL native apps = EFL. This discussion is just a waste of time. Thanks. Nyssen (talk) 03:24, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

JavaScript is NOT part of HTML5, HTML5 is not language for imperative programming, but JavaScript is[edit]

From HTML5: "HTML5 on its own cannot be used for animation and interactivity - it must be supplemented with CSS3 or Javascript."

"In addition to specifying markup, HTML5 specifies scripting application programming interfaces (APIs) that can be used with JavaScript."

So HTML5 exposes bits of the model to JavaScript but it does NOT contain JavaScript. --Malagajoe (talk) 19:57, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

HTML5 is the latest evolution of the standard that defines HTML. The term represents two different concepts: 1) A new version of the language HTML, with new elements, attributes, and behaviors 2) A larger set of technologies that allows more diverse and powerful Web sites and applications: this set is called HTML5 & friends and is often shortened to just HTML5. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/HTML/HTML5 Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a dev manual. Nyssen (talk) 03:21, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Not sure I agree with this trend to water down the term "HTML5" to something vague and less precise. No, the Wikipedia is not a dev manual, but then again, I don't agree that it's in anybody's best interests to re-use technical terms in broader contexts they were never meant to be used in.  —CobraA1 17:43, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Proposed merge with LiMo Platform[edit]

same topic - platform has been renamed so best merge to new name in historical section, a stub unlikely to grow Widefox; talk 14:38, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

In which case that distinction should be fixed in LiMo Platform. Even as a former parent topic, it can still be merged into a history section. Widefox; talk 21:33, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
  • No, LiMo is mentioned in the Tizen article.Nyssen (talk) 14:06, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
  • I'm agree with answer No.. LiMo and Tizen are significantly different projects. --Kirik-ch (talk) 16:43, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
  • My answer's No.. Significant difference. --Amarantine84 (talk) 10:17, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Tizen UI[edit]

  • Each Tizen Association member will have many devices/UIs. Tizen doesn't have a UI. Your reference to the UX Guide is completely off-topic. Tizen.org is about APPLICATION DEVELOPMENT not about DEVICE UIs. Device UIs are written by manufacturers/operators with EFL. The Samsung dev device UI is a zero-cost copy of Symbian but it doesn't matter. The main point is: Tizen doesn't have and will never have a UI. Nyssen (talk) 08:45, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
  • The cite from this tizen.org page: "Before you get started, please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the fundamental aspects of the Tizen user interface". The same words are addressed to you. Please do not edit Tizen article before a deeper familiarization with Tizen IU. You can ask questions and make suggestions. I will try to comment on them as Tizen Community Manager. --Kirik-ch (talk) 08:48, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
  • The Intel Tizen PC was my idea btw: its UI will be Gnome-based, an excellent topic for new endless debates.Nyssen (talk) 08:52, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
  • It's cool, really nice to meet you here. I explored Tizen PC at TDC2013 and know some things about its UI. My suggestion is to add a screenshot Tizen PC when the builds will be available, but for the moment to leave what is in the official documentation (maybe with a different capture), this is what we are telling about at Tizen events. Why you don't like this screenshot so much? :) BTW, please contact me with Twitter, Skype or other personal message. I have questions about Tizen PC. --Kirik-ch (talk) 09:26, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Dear Nyssen. Let me explain why you're incorrect. Do you know Ubuntu, kubuntu, Mint? I'm sure you do. You can install and use any UI you want: Gnome, KDE, Mate etc. on any of these systems. But noone doubts that default UIs of Mint are Cinnamon and Mate? Or default UI of kubuntu is KDE? Of course, you can use on Tizen anything you want - no one doubts it either. But the current default UI is that picture you don't want to be published. If you read Tizen UX Guide or go to http://download.tizen.org/ and download and install firmware, you'll get this screen. We really appreciate you for you contributions. We'd better unite our forces in getting Tizen popular. But right now you're not quite right.--Amarantine84 (talk) 09:34, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
  • It's absurd to publish a (zero-cost) developer device UI on Wikipedia. The public will NEVER see this old-school UI. Post it on the Tizen wiki if you want. People must understand that contrary to Android for instance, Tizen is a decentralized project, so it doesn't have a real default UI. Nyssen (talk) 14:56, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Nyssen, it is only your own point of view. There are arguments to post it. For example, in my mind the best way to show the independence of Tizen UI is to show different interfaces screenshots. It will be really cool to show significantly different views. And of course the statement of "zero-cost" looks very strange: it is totally real screenshot of existing device. And Tizen homescreen looks similar for more than a year. In other words it is a significant fact, and wikipedia consists of facts. Isn't it? --Kirik-ch (talk) 19:47, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
  • "And Tizen homescreen looks similar for more than a year": a very interesting remark, indeed ! The public will NEVER see the dev device UI, so it will NEVER change of course. Android is a centralized project with a default UI, Tizen is a decentralized project without a real default UI. This "Tizen UI" is a misconception: it can't be published on wikipedia. Nyssen (talk) 01:53, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Nyssen is the only one against that screenshot. The majority (incl. me) is in favor of it. If the removal of that image continues, one might be inclined to report him for edir warring… --KAMiKAZOW (talk) 19:11, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
  • "The majority incl. me" is probably the most stupid argument I've ever heard. Nyssen (talk) 04:11, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
  • There is no copyright on a picture of a phone. Nyssen (talk) 16:10, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
    • Yes, there is. If you were right, one could freely distribute cam recorded videos of movie screenings. --KAMiKAZOW (talk) 22:11, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
      • Great to have a Russian Mr Hollywood here but rest assured, this is not a copyright violation. Nyssen (talk) 02:02, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
        • No vendor-specific UI is wanted here by anybody except you as this section already makes very, very clear. You also claim to own the copyright which is an outright lie. The copyright is with Samsung and assurances are not enough at Wikipedia. You have to prove it. Accept that the default FOSS UI is the consensus here. --KAMiKAZOW (talk) 03:40, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
        • The newest photo Nyssen is trying to push onto Wikipedia is a stolen photo from http://tizenindonesia.blogspot.nl/2013/09/penampakan-tizen-30-ui-di-samsung.html – claiming to show a leaked Tizen device (=just a rumor!). Any further attempt to add copyrighted material again to this article by you WILL be reported! As stated in Wikipedia:BLOCK#Protection: persistent copyright violations is a reason for blocking. --KAMiKAZOW (talk) 11:06, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

River Trail[edit]

Related projects mentions River Trail. It doesn't mention how River Trail is related to Tizen, and they don't seem related at all, except that Intel contributed to both. Should the River Trail mention stay? 5.12.165.133 (talk) 09:22, 28 July 2013 (UTC)


"Without a Browser"[edit]

The article says:

     HTML5 applications run on Tizen, Android, Firefox OS, Ubuntu Touch, Windows Phone,
     and webOS without a browser.

Does "without a browser" apply to webOS only, or to the entire list? If the latter, the following would be clearer:

     HTML5 applications run without a browser on Tizen, Android, Firefox OS, Ubuntu Touch, Windows Phone,
     and webOS.

If "without a browser" applies to webOS only, the sentence should likewise be rewritten to make that clear.

Toddcs (talk) 12:16, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

 [edit]