Talk:Tomato

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Smith?[edit]

Three times in early history and once under in Britain a Smith or Andrew F Smith is mentioned. Since he is also cited in each case why not just make the statements?--Weetoddid (talk) 09:46, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Production trends: contradictory data and broken ref[edit]

This is my first time commenting or editing here, I apologize if something is incorrect. Under Production Trends, the text says that Mexico is the largest producer, but the graphical chart shows China instead of Mexico. After going to the reference site, I believe the correct data for 2005 would be China as the largest producer. Mexico shows a substantially lower production at 2.24 million tons. I have made the change in the text on the page from Mexico to China. TonyHagale (talk) 17:55, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

The table shown under the above section of the article appears thus:
Top Tomato Producers — 2008
(million tons)
 China 311.6
 United States 111.0
 Turkey 39.7
 Egypt 47.6
 India 87.6
World Total 125
Source:
UN Food & Agriculture Organisation (FAO)
[1]


Maybe I'm missing something, but how can the largest producer, China, produce 311.6 million tons annually, and the total world production be less than half that, at 125 million tons? Unfortunately, the link in the reference in non-functional, so I am unable to verify. Clarification would be appreciated, and fix to the broken link would be great. --Yumegusa (talk) 07:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


This isn't the biggest problem - the cided source, FAOSTAT, doesn't even have the data for 2008. I dug the following table for 2007 up from FAOSTAT and will replace the one in the article, as it is uncited. Let's leave the old table here in case someone wants a quick review. So, this is the 2007 data from FAOSTAT:

Top Tomato Producers — 2007
(in tonnes)
 China 33 645 000
 United States 11 500 000
 Turkey 9 919 673
 India 8 585 800
 Egypt 7 550 000
World Total 126 246 708
Source:
UN Food & Agriculture Organisation (FAO)
[2]


Gasper.azman (talk) 13:56, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Sewage[edit]

I understand that tomato seeds pass undigested though the human gut, and so sewage plants are often surrounded by tomato plants. Anyone confirm? Danceswithzerglings (talk) 03:44, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Have you ever driven by a sewage treatment plant? Most of the "weeds" you see around those places are actually tomato plants.Brothernight (talk) 04:59, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I have actually seen sewage treatment plants and have never seen tomato plants growing anywhere near one. As the soil in such places is very tough (because the sites are carefully chosen), and generally clay, one is not likely to find much of anything growing near one. Certainly, not in California. I find the statement unlikely, as that would mean that sewage from the treatment facility is seeping through the soil to the outside. On top of that, it also supposes that delicate tomato seeds have survived the harsh temperatures, chemical attacks and who knows what else in order to survive. Gingermint (talk) 02:09, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

peeling and seeding the tomato[edit]

yes i am making salsa for the first time and am having trouble finding information on why or why not to seed and/or peel a tomato. any input would be great.Jondatsun (talk) 23:17, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a manual. However you seem to be new, so as a chef: seeds are not chewable, and are bitter. The skin is also difficult to chew and gets stuck in your teeth. For future questions, please see websites like Google or WikiHow, and/or our Reference Desk. → ROUX  23:21, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Proposed merger[edit]

I propose that most of the section "Types" be merged into List of tomato cultivars. --Bensin (talk) 21:56, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I second that. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 14:42, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Paella a tomato dish?[edit]

Since when has paella been known as a tomato dish? Vegetable paella may have it, but it's certainly not a traditional ingredient. Therefore the whole Iranian etymology section seems highly dubious to me, I'd suggest removing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.176.121 (talk) 12:56, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Tomato is the 'Apple of Paradise'[edit]

In a number of European languages (Italian, Hungarian, Serbian, and I think the Austrian dialect) the word for 'tomato' is synonymous with 'paradise'. It would be interesting if the article could explain this unusual etymology.Nmcmurdo (talk) 01:21, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

In Britain[edit]

In existing section:

Tomatoes were not grown in England until the 1590s, according to Smith. One of the earliest cultivators was John Gerard, a barber-surgeon.[6] Gerard's Herbal, published in 1597 and largely plagiarized from continental sources[citation needed],


The citation required for the plagiarism claim is supported by information at the URL: http://www.controverscial.com/John%20Gerard.htm

"There is however a cloud of controversy surrounding the original contents of the Herbal. It is believed that Gerard may have used a translation of Stirpium historiae pemptades sex (1583) by the Flemish botanist Rembertus Dodoens." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonathan.x.jackson (talkcontribs) 14:36, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

The entire section was too long. I reduced it to just pertinent information. Gingermint (talk) 02:11, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Tournefort vs. Miller[edit]

I thought Philip Miller provided the scientific name? He however used the Tournefort classifications at first, but later used the binomial nomenclature of Carolus Linnaeus. 95.209.84.250 (talk) 09:59, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Proposed refactoring[edit]

It strikes me that this article has been growing somewhat 'organically' for some time—people sticking little additions in here and there. The result is somewhat incoherent. As such, I'd like to go through and 'refactor' it, just tidying things up and generally making it flow better. I can't say precisely what I intend to do yet (although as Bensin suggests above, the redundant 'Types' section will probably go), but if you object, speak now (or forever hold your peace). If no-one objects in about a week, I'll go for it. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 13:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, No-one's objected, so I'm going to go for it. I'll add the inuse template. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 15:19, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Error[edit]

When it is talking about "now Mexico city" it has an error. There is one missing comma that makes it sound odd. How do I correct it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.139.204.88 (talk) 03:59, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

I've corrected it for you. Most Wikipedia articles you could just click "Edit" at the top and change them. This one has been protected (it was an obvious target for people messing around), so you can only edit if you've had an account for a little while. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 16:09, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Different person, those appear to be limes in the picture of the Indian Dish while the caption says lemons. Just a small thing I noticed. 67.243.20.72 (talk) 11:28, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Hard to tell, but looking at it closely, at least the one in the centre looks like it has a yellow rind. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 13:54, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Cultural use of the tomato![edit]

A British lecturer at Unisa, Sally Hutchings, was deported after throwing a tomato at State President P W Botha to protest against curbs on the universities.

http://sites.google.com/site/tomatosaclub/home/itomatopw —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.246.55.22 (talk) 08:08, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

While this might be true, I don't think it's important enough to include in an article about tomatoes. See also WP:trivia. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 19:22, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Interesting. It does seem that in the popular imagination (at least in North America), the most desirable item to throw at a prisoner in the stocks - or by extension a corrupt politician or other unpopular public figure - was the rotten tomato. Is this some kind of Puritan inversion of the "golden apple"/"apple of Paradise" image? Heavenlyblue (talk) 20:25, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Plant safety[edit]

There is a contradiction in this section. First, the author says, "...green unripe fruit of the tomato plant...contain the poison solanine, which is toxic to humans and animals." But at the end of the paragraph, the author says, "The fresh fruit is, however, harmless." The problem in the wording is that green unripe fruit can also be considered fresh (assuming, of course, that it's not cooked, dried, or frozen), yet it cannot be both toxic and harmless. Perhaps the author meant to say that the RED RIPE fruit is harmless. I am suggesting that the words "fresh fruit" be changed to "ripe" or "red ripe." 188.248.255.253 (talk) 00:59, 26 March 2010 (UTC)Rick Glaser, March 26, 2010.

When I was checking the background on this, I found that in fact that section was rather out of date. Tomatoes are now known to contain tomatine, which is not as toxic as solanine. I've rewritten the section, with a couple more references. Hopefully it's clearer now. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 12:09, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Actually, there is a variety of tomato that stays green after it ripens. This variety is used to make "fried green tomatoes", not unripe tomatoes. According to Cornell University's Department of Animal Science, "Production of solanum-type glycoalkaloids is favored by the same conditions that promote the development of chlorophyll. Therefore, the concentration of these glycoalkaloids is highest in potato sprouts and green potato skins, and tomato vines and green tomatoes. Care should be taken to prevent the exposure of potatoes to sunlight. These alkaloids are not destroyed by cooking or drying at high temperatures. New potato varieties can not be introduced unless they contain less than 20 mg glycoalkaloids/100 g." Here is the URL to the cited warning posted by Cornell University: http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/steroid.html Brothernight (talk) 05:02, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

There certainly are varieties that stay green—see the Varieties section of the article. Searching for fried green tomatoes, however, the recipes that give any detail beyond 'green' do suggest that unripe tomatoes are used: [1], [2], [3], as does the Wikipedia article. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 09:40, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation?[edit]

The article as written claims that speakers in the Southeastern US pronounce "tomato" with the "ah" sound - as in the UK - and that other American speakers pronounce the word with the "ay" sound. I've lived in the Southeast my entire life and have never, ever heard another Southerner use the "ah" pronunciation (at least not ironically). The usual pronunciations you get around here are: "Tuh-MAY-tah," "MAY-ter," and "Tuh-MAY-ter," in roughly descending order of popularity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.210.71.103 (talk) 00:15, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

The edit summary for this edit by User:Dream Focus said "everyone down South says to-ma-to, as is proper, not just older generations". Prior to the edit, the article had only said that "older generations among" the South used that pronunciation. Over-generalisation, perhaps? I've never been in the south US, so please discuss it between yourselves. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 13:42, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
I've heard that someone looking at the lyrics of a song found it didn't make any sense: " 'I say tomato and you say tomato'... What the hell does this mean?" Myles325a (talk) 05:13, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I am also from the Southern United States and have never heard the 'ah' pronunciation, whether the speaker was older or otherwise.

Rotel&beans (talk) 21:42, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

According to Kenyon and Knott Pronouncing Dictionary of American English, there are three pronuncations of the word 'tomato': "tuh-may-to"; "tuh-mah-toh"; and "tuh-matt-oh". I have heard the Canadian journalist Valerie Pringle use the third pronunciation. All three pronunciations are heard worldwide - the first is the most common one heard in the United States and Canada; the second is most common one heard in Britain, Ireland, and most Commonwealth countries (except Canada). The third pronunciation is the rarest but most frequently occurs in continental North America, especially Ontario and New York. 71.198.146.98 (talk) 19:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Suggesting a new first section, or 'lede' section[edit]

In my opinion, many readers who seek the tomato article will desire information about nutrition. Currently, nutrition information is in a sub-sub-section about mid-way through the article. First, we read about taxonyms, history and cultivation. I propose moving the nutrition info box to just below the plant/species info box. The first paragaphs would continue to inform about tomato in the sense "plant" while immediately after, moved and new paragraphs would inform on tomato in the sense "food." While I assume more people search for tomato-food than tomato-plant, I think the style of wikipedia is better followed by listing the taxonomy/ontogeny information right up front, then the information on utility immediately after. Heathhunnicutt (talk) 16:32, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that the first two sections do mostly cover it as a food (history, then cultivation and use), although perhaps the botanical language in the introduction could be trimmed a bit. As to nutrition specifically, I think it's better to keep the nutrition box with the nutrition section in the text. It could be reorganised to put that higher up, but starting with the history makes sense, at least to me. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 21:30, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Broken link[edit]

The link to Selecting, Storing, and Serving Ohio tomatoes is broken it should be http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/pdf/5532.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.207.206.178 (talk) 14:59, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, done. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 15:17, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Fruit, vegetable, or berry internationally[edit]

Should there be added that there is a certain confusion internationally, as in some countries fruits and vegetables are purely culinary terms? Having a separate word for the fruit for must of them the tomato, and many others are berries?Ivan2007 (talk) 22:12, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

A vegetable is a plant, part of a plant, or the edible portion of a plant. A fruit is the developed ovary of a plant or the edible developed ovary of a plant. Fruits are a subset of plants. Berries are a subset of both fruits and vegetables. So when someone says a tomato is a fruit not a vegetable it's like saying Lake Superior is not a body of water it's a lake. So a tomato is a vegetable and a fruit and a berry. People's insistence on it being a fruit not a vegetable is because it does not need to be pressure processed for home canning. As for other definitions of fruit or vegetable such as culinary there are no standard definitions. This controversy does not appear to have been applied to other fruits commonly referred to as vegetables (green beans, squash, cucumbers, eggplant, peppers, okra, corn, peas, etc).Weetoddid (talk) 23:35, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

It's odd that a heading would have a question mark: Fruit or Vegetable? The question defines the context- culinary. Therefore the answer is simple, it's a vegetable. Fruit has both a botanical and culinary usage whereas vegetable has only a culinary usage.Lashes1776 (talk) 16:08, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 188.220.72.27, 1 July 2010[edit]

{{editsemiprotected}}

I believe the scientific name of the tomato is wrong. It should be Lycopersciom esculantum. please verify it. Thanks 188.220.72.27 (talk) 17:06, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done Your name gives 0 Google results, while the current one gives 1.1 million results CTJF83 chat 18:46, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
I guess the IP user meant Lycopersicon esculentum, which was a widely used name. However, Solanum lycopersicon is now the accepted name. Please see the botanical classification section. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 22:51, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

The Tomato. Fruit Or Vegetable ?[edit]

Hello there is many concepts and arguments that the tomato is a fruit or if it is a vegetable. Some say That the tomato is a fruit because it has seeds. Other's say that the tomato is a vegteable because it isn't sweet and the majority of fruits are sweet.

The Tomato. Fruit Or Vegetable ?[edit]

Hello there is many concepts and arguments that the tomato is a fruit or if it is a vegetable. Some say That the tomato is a fruit because it has seeds. Other's say that the tomato is a vegteable because it isn't sweet and the majority of fruits are sweet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.190.174.250 (talk) 18:34, 17 October 2010 (UTC) Fruit —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.152.202.162 (talk) 00:22, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

See Tomato#Fruit or vegetable?. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 11:03, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Shortages[edit]

Tomato shortages have occurred at different times for ~100 years and should probably be mentioned in this article. (It looks to me as if there is enough for a standalong tomato shortage article). Smartse (talk) 11:34, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Tomatoes are sweet[edit]

The first line of the article is incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.135.38.201 (talk) 17:33, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

They're savoury compared to other fruit like apples and bananas, and you generally eat them with savoury courses, not sweet ones. Thomas Kluyver (talk) 11:31, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

This is the only thing I can find regarding how they taste. Still it's better than no reference at all (at least I don't see any references in the first paragraph). http://www.bostonfoodandwhine.com/2008/06/26/what-does-a-tomato-taste-like/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.133.39.18 (talk) 14:52, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Google the phrase "tomatoes are savory" and you get 2 pages: "Page 2 of 20 results (0.05 seconds)" (changing the spelling to savoury adds another 17 results). Google the phrase "tomatoes are sweet": Page 55 of about 22,600 results (0.14 seconds). It's a little bit embarrassing that Wikipedia has something like this wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.132.185.108 (talk) 15:21, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

It's embarrasing that you rely on the number of Google results of a search without quotation marks to find out what certain fruits taste like. F. F. Fjodor (talk) 16:11, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

The quotation marks are right there. I just thought the Google search results would help to illustrate my point (I mean the ratio is 1:1000). I guess it's possible that all 22000 of those people are wrong. Leave the arbitrary, unreferenced, inexpert opinion there if that's what this site is about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.132.185.108 (talk) 15:49, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

The simple fact that there is a restaurant chain named "sweet tomatoes" shows the flaws in the logic of using Google hits as any sort of indicator. Ridernyc (talk) 22:14, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Don't want people eating tomato leaves[edit]

"as well as the plant (Solanum lycopersicum) which bears it." might be better phrased along the lines of "which can also refer to the plant" etc. Saying "X ... is an edible fruit as well as the plant" might lead some to think the plant is edible--assuming they don't read all the way through. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.134.152.238 (talk) 03:12, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it's a problem. The phrasing doesn't really suggest that the rest of the plant is edible, and it's very well known what part of a tomato plant you usually eat. If someone wants to try eating random plants, it's up to them to check, and it's easy to find warnings about toxicity both here and on the internet in general. (Out of interest, apparently a small amount of tomato leaves is not particularly dangerous. See [4]) Thomas Kluyver (talk) 11:23, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from DblazekNGB, 4 March 2011[edit]

{{edit semi-protected}} I am the Executive Director of the National Garden Bureau. We have selected 2011 as the Year of the Tomato. I'd like to supply a link to our website under the listing "tomato" on Wikipedia. http://www.ngb.org/year_of/index.cfm?YOID=16

DblazekNGB (talk) 18:19, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Not done: Absolutely not! Please read WikiPedia's policies on spam and conflict of interest. Reaper Eternal (talk) 01:26, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
I must contradict! That page doesn't look like spam at all. It looks like a very good page. Please only cite wikipedia policies when they really apply which isn't the case here! --Krawunsel (talk) 10:25, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
I agree, too - this does not look like a site that is promoting any particular brand or product, but a more general promotion of the cultivation of produce. It would even be a "reliable source" if referenced for certain topics. I don't see it as violating either policy. HammerFilmFan (talk) 15:54, 21 June 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan
Agreed - the site seems to provide encyclopedia-quality information not present in the current article, nor likely to be there if the article were to reach FA status. de Bivort 16:25, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
I have no problem with you sourcing to this site. (It appears reliable enough for general information, but I would recommend something better, like a horticulture book, for specific details.) I declined the request because it was just a request to add a link to a website for no apparent reason other than to drive traffic to it. Additionally, I don't see how 2011 being declared "Year of the tomato" by a non-notable organization merits a link to the organization's website. Reaper Eternal (talk) 20:45, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
They're pretty notable-http://www.ngb.org/about/index.cfm-the 'year' stuff might go under popular culture, or some such. HammerFilmFan (talk) 03:24, 22 June 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan
What they say about themselves does not indicate notability in any way. The notability criteria for organizations states that "No organization is considered notable except to the extent that independent sources demonstrate that it has been noticed by people outside of the organization." The explicit criteria are that the organization must have in-depth coverage from multiple independent reliable sources. If notability can be established for this organization, then it probably should be mentioned in the article. I'm no fan on "in popular culture" sections, but I'm not involved in editing this article, so I'm not going to complain too much. Reaper Eternal (talk) 13:02, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Disagree the information that some group has chosen the Tomato for some sort of tittle will add no useful information about tomatos to an already long article. It might not be spam but it also adds nothing of value to the article. Ridernyc (talk) 10:51, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Numbers don't add up[edit]

Not sure what to do, trying to fix a error on the page. Under cultivationit says China is the world leader in the production of tomato's and produces 25% of the worlds crop... The US tonage is 1/3 of China's but somehow Califorina grows 35% of the worlds crop? The math doesn't add up... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greglobe (talkcontribs) 01:16, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

'Tomatic acid'?[edit]

Why are tomatoes more acidic than many other foods, such as cucumbers, cabbage and probably beets and meat, or even milk? I know they contain vitamin C, but so do alkaline cucumbers. I know apples and citrus fruit are more acidic, but they contain malic and citric acids respectively. I even know of what makes grapes acidic. Why is tomato pH not much more than 3? Is it lycopene? Do they contain pyruvic acid? Has anyone studied the chemistry in question? 24.184.234.24 (talk) 00:39, 28 April 2011 (UTC)LeucineZipper

It is mainly acetic, ascorbic and malic acids in tomatoes. Contents vary between ripeness and variety. Lycopene is neutral. Tomatoes also contain high amounts of glutamic acid (MSG), which also contributes to the low pH. But again, concentrations depend very much between varieties and ripeness. See for example http://www.ars-grin.gov/duke/.Knorrepoes (talk) 11:00, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Glutamic acid can reach up to 50.000 ppm, or 5 % of the tomato.Knorrepoes (talk) 11:04, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Now I know why tomatoes taste more like vinegar than most fruit; it is acetic acid. 24.184.234.24 (talk) 19:55, 30 April 2011 (UTC)LeucineZipper

Edit request from Unflappableoptimist, 15 July 2011[edit]

The entry on tomato states that the Council of the European Union gave a directive that tomatoes should be considered fruits. This occurs in the "Fruit or vegetable?" section of the entry. A source is listed, but after reading the source material, it is evident that the entry's wording is incorrect and the entire line should be deleted. The directive that is used as a source states that carrots should be considered fruits for the sake of the directive. This is obviously meant to be a way to clarify their uses for objective of the directive and not a way to reclassify tomatoes and carrots as fruits.

Unflappableoptimist (talk) 21:46, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Done Verified in source that it was specifically for the directive. Jnorton7558 (talk) 04:14, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

typically red?[edit]

Seems rather unfounded to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.250.233.45 (talk) 21:29, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Tomato - considered poisonous[edit]

The article makes suggests that the tomato was considered poisonous in North America, without explaining why. The tomato may have been a catalyst to lead poisoning, by leaching lead from pewter plates and utensils. http://historymedren.about.com/od/dailylifesociety/a/bod_tomatoes.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimschott (talkcontribs) 03:36, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Tomatoes were considered poisonous due to their membership in the nightshade family, and resemblance to nightshade. At the time tomatoes were first making their way from the New World, lead poisoning was not a concern; women were using white lead as makeup. → ROUX  19:17, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

If lead poisoning were a concern, women would not have used white lead as makeup. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimschott (talkcontribs) 03:51, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

New Picture[edit]

Hi,

Look at that Picture. That can be the new picture in the box. On that picture there is the plant, too. Sorry for my bad english...

A tomato plant

Gab997 (talk) 13:53, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Asterids[edit]

The entries on eggplant and potato indicate that tomatoes are in the same genus; both the eggplant and potato "scientific classification" sidebar indicates that they are also "(unranked): Asterids". Shouldn't this be included in the tomato scientific classification sidebar as well?

I'm not a biologist, so something subtle may have escaped me. Will someone knowledgeable please take care of this? Bill Jefferys (talk) 00:28, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I have looked at the Asterids article and it is clear that it is appropriate to include this in the sidebar. Accordingly, I have made the change. Bill Jefferys (talk) 22:07, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit requested[edit]

In the first line ("Tomato may refer to both the plant (Solanum lycopersicum) and the edible, typically red, fruit which it bears.") The word "tomato" needs to be in italics or quotes, because of the use–mention distinction (it is mentioned, not used). That is clunky, though, so I suggest that the sentence be otherwise recast. 68.54.4.162 (talk) 03:26, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I've attempted to make this change, but not reworded it substantially. Hope this suffices. sonia♫ 10:09, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 28 December 2011[edit]

Under the section "Companion plants", there is a missing close-parentheses in the paragraph starting "Other plants with strong scents,". The list "(basil, oregano, spearmint" should be "(basil, oregano, spearmint)".

Kennyyounger (talk) 15:29, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done, thank you for pointing this out--Jac16888 Talk 15:39, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Tomato Records[edit]

This web site lists tomato records and provides the grower the lineage for tomatoes that grow large or giant tomatoes. http://tomato.vegetabletoplant.com Pomingo (talk) 02:44, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

ITC external link to trade data[edit]

Hello everyone, I am working for the International Trade Centre (ITC). I would like to propose the addition of an external link that could lead directly to the specific product trade data held by ITC. I would like you to consider this link under the WP:ELYES #3 prescriptions. Moreover, the reliability and the pertinence of this link can be supported by the following facts 1) ITC is part of the United Nations 2) No registration is required 3) Trade data (imports/exports) are regularly updated 4) The link gives direct access to the trade database referring to the specific product 5) The addition of a link to reliable trade data could provide an appropriate contribution to the article related Thank you in advance for your attention.Divoc (talk) 19:12, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Can you please paste it in here so we can consider it? Thanks. Yopienso (talk) 04:50, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Article semi-protection[edit]

Anybody know why this article is semi-protected and seems to have been for a long time? 79.79.248.99 (talk) 13:35, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

The US city of Reynoldsburg, Ohio calls itself "The Birthplace of the Tomato"[edit]

This seems a very unlikely claim, given that the tomato originated in the Americas in prehistoric times and arrived in Europe in the 16th century. --Ef80 (talk) 01:23, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, some people do seem to make that claim. Poor writing abounds on the planet. "Birthplace of selective tomato breeding on a commercial scale in North America" is apparently close to the truth, however. this historical article says "Alexander Livingston was the first person who succeeded in upgrading the wild tomato, developing different breeds and stabilizing the plants.", "Livingston's first breed of tomato, the Paragon, was introduced in 1870." and "In the 1937 yearbook of the Federal Department of Agriculture, it was declared that "half of the major varieties were a result of the abilities of the Livingstons to evaluate and perpetuate superior material in the tomato". Livingston's first breed of tomato, the Paragon, was introduced in 1870."
It is absurd to call tomatoes "wild" that were extensively cultivated in Europe well before that time, and were a crop of the Incas and Aztecs well before that. Various sources say that they were introduced to Europe in 1522 (and to England in 1596). Anyone who grows a crop in the traditional ways practices selective plant breeding ... Nadiatalent (talk) 13:53, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Tomatoes not considered poisonous[edit]

Pioneer America, Volumes 11, Pioneer America Society, 1979, p. 112-113 argues that the the idea that people thought tomatoes were poisonous was a myth. The Encyclopedia America (the origin of the myth) did not list its sources, and earlier documents simply do not mention it.

Per Andrew Smith's "The Tomato In America," p. 40, 2001, "...while some Americans obviously did believe that tomatoes were poisonous, this phenomenon has been blown out of proportion by well-intentioned popular historians. Research has located only three references to the tomato's purported poisonous qualities published in America prior to 1860. One was from a reprinted British medical work, reflecing outmoded beliefs in Britain rather than in America. The second was a facetious comment published in a newspaper." The third, like twenty five possible references to a poisonous nature, were attempts "to explain the discrpancy between the tomato's lack of previous usage juxtaposed to its then current general consumption." Tomatos were not eaten because farmers did not know how to grow them, cooks did not have any recipes for them, and consumers were not so ready to consume unfamiliar foods; not because people thought they were poisonous.

Wikipedia does not mention the cherry tree incident in George Washington's biography, nor does it insist that Christopher Columbus sailed to prove the world was round, so it should not maintain other myths either. 74.236.132.45 (talk) 21:18, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Tomato leaves and stems not toxic to humans...[edit]

Does anyone have any proof whatsoever to reference that A) the tomato plant itself contains solanine and B) they are toxic to humans in any amount? In the first case, clicking on the Wikipedia article for solanine leads to the dispute that tomato plants even contain solanine, rather they contain only tomatine. In the second case, the only citation given for tomato leaves' toxicity in humans appears to be a dead link. In any case, the toxicity example is still only one case, if it's even true.

Further, this very article links to the New York Times article about cooking with tomato leaves, which has a lot more information than simply "a small amount of leaves is probably not going to hurt you", as seems to be the implication. If the information is accurate, tomato leaves aren't going to be toxic to humans at all, no matter how much you eat, because the tomatine is bound with cholesterol in the gut and is not only passed through the digestive system, but takes the cholesterol with it, giving a health benefit as well. I've eaten tomato leaves, in fact I do regularly, and it does nothing. I realize that doesn't qualify as a verifiable reference, however it does lead me to be inclined to agree with the New York Times article, so there must me more out there on this.

I've looked it up as thoroughly as I can and have found nothing but old wives' tales about people "learning when they were growing up" not to eat the leaves, but NOTHING of scientific value. There's also at least one book, "Cooking in the Moment: A Year of Seasonal Recipes" by Andrea Reusing that has a recipe that calls for tomato leaves.

So, to make a long story short, this is a call to clean up the section talking about the seemingly non-existent toxicity of the leaves and stems (can't believe it's there in the first place, seeing as there is no source for it), and also a call for more references to the fact. There seems to be an abundance of myth, but I'll remind everyone that this is not the kind of thing that the section of an article here should be based on.184.167.224.119 (talk) 22:31, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Seems to be a mostly unexamined question, "Accused, Yes, but Probably Not a Killer" Probably no more dangerous than green tomatoes, which, as we all know, are fine fried. User:Fred Bauder Talk 22:47, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
If Wikipedia is good at one thing, it's rooting out the truth in "I've always been told" myths. I've personally found it tough because a lot of the info out there on the alleged toxicity of tomato greens, IF they even cite sources, link to articles about solanine, not tomatine. So all this "nausea and vomiting and death!!!111" seems to just lead back to the wrong substance... BUT, my main point is that if there's no info out there supporting the toxicity allegations then why is it in the article?? Bizarre. 184.167.224.119 (talk) 23:09, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Forgot to add one other source I found, touting the benefits of eating tomatine: Google Book link184.167.224.119 (talk) 22:56, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

A compound that "kills bugs" is not likely to be non-toxic. I think in our article we want something like small amounts of leaves may be used for flavoring and green tomatoes are sometimes used in cooking, including the famous dish fried green tomatoes. We need to correctly identify tomatine but warn against tomato leaf tea or use as greens. We need a little better source than a newspaper too if we can find it. User:Fred Bauder Talk 03:07, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
It turns out that potatoes have considerable solanine in them and that the amount varies greatly by variety. Poisoning is possible but rare if large amount of a variety with high solanine is eaten, particularly the peels. Tomatoes don't have much solanine as compared to potatoes and few eat that much of them. Interestingly one source says solanine is concentrated in the sweetest part of the tomato fruit, the ripe fruit. Just isn't enough of it. User:Fred Bauder Talk 03:54, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
But something that's toxic to insects isn't necessarily going to be toxic to humans, and vice versa, so assumptions can't be made... From what I gather, humans have the ability to combine tomatine and cholesterol, but insects and possibly other mammals don't. It sucks that there hasn't been a whole lot written about the subject. However, that doesn't mean that popular opinion can be used to flesh out the article...
I still don't know where the "tomato leaf tea killed someone" thing comes from (the Times article cited says only that it made someone sick). The only case I could personally find of supposed tomato leaf poisoning was a reference to this footnote from an article that unfortunately gives a 404 error now:
"10/26/2010 According to Dr. Anna Dulaney, Clinical Toxicologist and Assistant Director of Education for the Carolinas Poison Center, since their database began in 1997 there has been only one reference to a child having a reaction related to consuming tomato leaves or stems. In that instance, the child made and consumed a "Pie" consisting of cedar wood chips, grass clippings, tomato leaves and various other items. That child vomited, but due to the large number of ingredients in the mixture, it is impossible to attribute the upset stomach to the consumption of tomato leaves. She noted that in their database, the largest number of tomato leaves consumed at one time was 5 or 6 and that there were no ill effects. (This footnote inserted by Dr. Lucy Bradley, NC State Extension Urban Horticulture Specialist 10/26/2010)"
So the child vomited from eating a "pie" with freaking wood chips and all kinds of other junk in it and someone decided it MUST have been the tomato leaves? Eye roll to that. By the way, I've consumed 8 or 10 leaves at a time WITH the stem and...nothing but a tasty dish. So surely there must be similar experiences out there that are documented. I'm just asking for people to keep an eye out for that.
In the meantime, if there isn't consensus that the three or four sources I linked to or mentioned above aren't enough to weight the section in favor of "non toxic", there certainly isn't enough out there to keep the section leaning toward "toxic", at least that I've been able to find. I did get a chuckle from the solanine article, as it sounds almost like we shouldn't eat potatoes or any other fruits or vegetables... Ludicrous, but I suppose we're stuck with what can be cited. Still, if potatoes aren't killing anyone and tomato plants have far less solanine, then it's hard to see where the dangerous human toxicity is. 184.167.224.119 (talk) 04:22, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
It's a matter of amount. Normal potatoes have quite a bit of solanine but even if you eat lots of potatoes with the peels on every day the amount is only a fraction of a dose that would produce symptoms. User:Fred Bauder Talk 04:39, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Aversion to Raw (Uncooked) Tomatoes[edit]

A small minority of the population (including me), has a very potent visceral reaction to the taste and smell of the raw tomato. The reaction I have is an instant gag reflex, and the taste is an overwhelming bitter flavor that masks the flavor of most anything else I eat. It is not the difference between a truly ripened tomato versus commercially artificially ripened tomato, but an inherent chemical receptor reaction, not unlike cilantro. In my experience, the compound seems to be concentrated in the juice around the seeds. The flesh and ribs are tolerable. It is not a reaction to texture of the seeds, or the jelly-like juice around the seeds. Most of those adverse to raw tomatoes do consume and often enjoy well-cooked tomatoes, i.e. tomato paste, pasta sauces, oven-baked 'sun-dried' tomatoes. Heat for a long duration (in excess of 1 hour cooking) and/or removal of the seeds seem to eliminate the offending compound. Also, combining with a fatty compound seems to lessen the bitter flavor of raw tomato (i.e. guacamole with raw tomato added), but does not completely eliminate it.

I've looked for hard science behind my experiences, yet it eludes me. I've come across a few blogs which refer to the same conclusions I have.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cocktail-party-physics/2012/05/29/tasters-choice-why-i-hate-raw-tomatoes-and-you-dont/ http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/i-admit-it-i-hate-tomatoes?xg_source=activity http://whippedtheblog.com/2011/07/11/tackling-raw-tomatoes-one-bite-at-a-time/

IcepickD (talk) 06:25, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

It can happen, I guess. I feel sorry that you cannot enjoy a BLT or freshly cut tomatoes in a salad, as 90+ of the rest of us can. But if cooked sauces and so forth are tasty to you, that's great. Thanks for the link. HammerFilmFan (talk) 23:06, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Looking for someone to nominate this article for GA status[edit]

Does anyone else think this article is up to GA status?--Bigpoliticsfan (talk) 00:49, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Question of origin[edit]

In the first paragraph of the article it is stated WITHOUT REFERENCE that tomatoes originated in Mexico. This is not encyclopedic at all. There are indications that tomatoes originated in South America, in the Andean valleys of what is today Peru, Bolivia and Ecuador. Scholars are not sure whether tomatoes were cultivated first by the Aztec, by the Incas, or by previous civilizations or people in the American continent.

The introduction in this article therefore NEEDS TO be changed. I have nit been able to edit it as someone decided to make the article "semi-protected".

Here are some general references backing my claims:

http://www.britishtomatoes.co.uk/history

http://homecooking.about.com/od/foodhistory/a/tomatohistory.htm

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02859492#page-1

90.244.6.71 (talk) 21:36, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

I agree with you that the statement in the introduction is incorrect. Sources do not say the species originated in Mexico, just the cultivated form of it. However,
The first source, britishtomatoes.co.uk, is unreliable because it is basically a blog and never says where any of the info on the page came from, certainly nothing about "scholars".
The second source, homecooking.about.com, is also unreliable since it says nothing about the source of its info, again nothing about "scholars". It also says tomatoes were domesticated by Aztecs in Mexico.
The third and most scholarly source, states definitively that the ancestor of the domesticated tomato originated in the Andes but the domesticated tomato was developed in Mexico by the Aztecs.
So the statement that the cultivated tomato originated in Mexico appears to be correct but the statement about origin of the species is incorrect. Thanks for pointing out this error. I will fix it.
Jojalozzo 23:30, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

es.wikipedia.org: Solanum lycopersicum[edit]

Spanish wikipedia's Solanum lycopersicum (tomato) is a source of scholarly sources Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 17:31, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Etymology Section Plagiarized[edit]

The third paragraph is taken word-for-word from the third paragraph of the about.com source cited at the end: http://homecooking.about.com/od/foodhistory/a/tomatohistory.htm

Also, I'm not sure how trustworthy about.com is as a source is the first place. Jumper4677 (talk) 15:17, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 June 2014[edit]

Please remove "(although the leaves are)", since there is no evidence that leaves are toxic. They contain tomatine, not solanine, which is not known to cause any harm to humans. Marc.sevigny (talk) 17:53, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be changed in any article, particularly to remove a statement that something may be harmful. - Arjayay (talk) 18:09, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
That, and plenty of sources state that tomato leaves are hazardous to human consumption, too.--Mr Fink (talk) 19:29, 23 June 2014 (UTC)