Talk:Total Football

• Some self-promoting user remarks available in the history of this discussion page

There ought to be some mention of Jock Stein's Celtic in the late 60's which led to a UEFA championship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonrreira (talk • contribs) 21:06, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

"Michels was appointed for the 1974 FIFA World Cup campaign by the KNVB. Most of the 1974 team were made up of players from Ajax and Feyenoord. However, Rob Rensenbrink was an outsider, having played for clubs in neighboring Belgium, and was unfamiliar with Total Football, although he was selected and adapted well. During the tournament, the Netherlands coasted through their first and second round matches, defeating Argentina (4-0), East Germany(2-0) and Brazil (2-0) to setup a meeting with hosts West Germany.[3]

The 1974 Finals, which was often touted as Total Football versus Total Discipline. Cruyff kicked off and the ball was passed around the Oranje thirteen times before returning to Cruyff, who then went on a rush that eluded Berti Vogts and ended when he was fouled by Uli Hoeness inside the box. Teammate Johan Neeskens scored from the spot kick to give the Netherlands a 1-0 lead with 80 seconds of play elapsed, and the Germans had not even touched the ball. Cruyff's playmaking influence was stifled in the second half of the match by the effective marking of Berti Vogts, while Franz Beckenbauer, Uli Hoeness and Wolfgang Overath dominated midfield, enabling West Germany to win 2-1.[4]"

This whole passage is surplus to requirements.

Just some thoughts.

Although Holland brought back the concept of total football, the German national team of the 70s could also be said to use the total football concept.

Regarding Total Football in England:

The Everton team of the 1920's were noted to play football of the 'highest scientific order', whilst at that time it probably couldn't be concidered pure Total Football it was a forerunner. In the late 60's Everton's manager Harry Catterick brought skillfull football to the Englsih game, Spurs were another club that were doing the same. At Everton this skillfull football was to develop and by the championship winning side of 1969/70 it could be said that Everton were playing Total Football, the phrase hadn't been coined then.

Whislt the Dutch national side brought Total Football to a worldwide audience, it had bee implemented and developed in other places as well as Ajax and the Dutch National team.

A misunderstanding of Total Football?

The article does not seem to highlight that Total Football is not just an attacking system but a defensive one. In a Total Football system, players constantly close down the ball while those around them shift into different positions in order to limit the space behind them.

For this reason, Arsenal and Barcelona cannot be considered as teams who play Total Football, despite them playing a pass and move game. Both teams sit back when not in possession (Arsenal played a pressing game during the 07-08 season, but at this time didn't play pass and move as they went for or a more direct approach).

On the other hand, the European Cup winning A.C. Milan sides of '89 and '90 (managed by Arrigo Sacchi) played "Total Football".

This article needs to be cleaned of irrelevant information and state more clearly the correct definition of Total Football. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.139.127 (talk) 16:28, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

By watching Barcelona play you clearly see that they do press at all times when they do not have the ball. It might not be obvious because they hold the ball on an average of 60-65% of the time. La Fuzion (talk) 21:23, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Origin of the term, Barcelona and drugs

In 'Inverting the Pyramid' Jonathan Wilson makes the following points:

Total football was based around a fluid 4-3-3 formation with the sweeper often pushing up to make a 3-4-3 and players exchanging position. When Michels moved on to Barcelona he carried total football on there. Denying the opposition space was a key part of total football, playing a high line and pressing. He quotes Hulshoff and Muller, the club masseur, describing the use of drugs such as amphetamines to allow them to press for much of the game.

"The term totalvoetbal appeared only in response to performances of the national side in the 1974 world cup."

--David.castell (talk) 08:56, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

POV

Without sources, the list of clubs that utilise "total football" (Barcelona, Arsenal etc) is pure POV King of the North East 11:34, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

First sentence

Sorry, but is the goalkeeper an outfield player? I don't think so.KD Tries Again (talk) 01:02, 7 June 2010 (UTC)KD Tries Again

Lobanovskiy's Dynamo sides of the early 70s

What about Lobanovskiy's teams of 1970s and 1980s where the same principle of all players defending and all playing attacking were used? In fact, we can, possibly, credit Lobanovskiy with independent introduction of Total Football at Dynamo Kyiv as early as 1973. Goliath74 (talk) 18:44, 2 August 2011 (UTC)