Talk:Traditional Chinese star names

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Moons[edit]

I notice claimed "traditional star names" for moons of Neptune, etc.
Huh?
These were only discovered about 20 years ago with spacecraft, so they can hardly have names that are traditional! Will "traditional" chinese names keep appearing for newly discovered satellites? I think these satellites should be removed from the list, or at the very least some comment should be made so that they do not make their part of the list ridiculous. Deuar 13:05, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, they are not "traditional". For example, Titan in Chinese is 土衛六/土卫六, literally Saturn VI. — Yao Ziyuan 03:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Not to mention that they aren't even stars. Pfhreak (talk) 02:43, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Charon[edit]

You list Charon, which is a disambiguation page, not an astronomical object. If you meant Charon (moon), then that moon is already on the list. I can't delete one of them because they have different Chinese equivalents. Although I'm not set up to display Chinese characters, one shows as ?? and one shows as ???, that is, 2 question marks instead of 3, so they can't be the same even when displayed properly. Also, Hermes presumably means 69230 Hermes. Art LaPella 20:48, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Charon (moon) cannot be a traditional star name. It's not a star, and Charon the moon was discovered after the emergence of traditional chinese star names. It's kind of post-traditional... ... said: Rursus (bork²) 16:04, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Romanization?[edit]

Very good list!! But my Chinese literacy is a little limited (for now, maybe to be improved later - nobody disputes the importance of the Chinese culture). Maybe if someone inclined could add a Pinyin pronunciation? Or - that is, if I'm going to do it myself - are all Chinese glyphs pronounced unambiguously if I'm restricting myself to using the pinyin/mandarin pronunciation? Said: Rursus 15:22, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd prefer it to have Wade-Giles, and some Cantonese romanization, since those are the most likely to have been encountered in the west. 70.51.11.91 (talk) 09:16, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Note taken. Said: Rursus () 09:34, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Links to be used: http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/ - the file Unihan.zip contains kCantonese slots relevant for Cantonese, however: there are at least 6 accents! Tough! I'll make some relevant hack. Said: Rursus () 17:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Took a time before hacking some PostgreSQL, and now I'm still trying to verify what I'm doing. I'm not very clear about the purpose of this mega-dump of this and that astronomy related, if β/γ UMi have the names 北極一/二 (bàakgihk{jàt/jih}) and α/δ/ε/ζ UMi have the names 勾陳一/二/三/四 (àucàhn{jàt/jih/sàam/sei}), such "names" smells like designations not names proper... This is not a big deal, however, since the article can be renamed accordingly, but terms such as chinese translations of neutron star should be removed. They don't belong to wikipedia, wiktionary is a much more appropriate place for such. ... said: Rursus (bork²) 16:00, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm still considering Mandarin instead of Cantonese. Depends on Ta Tsun and such star names that have been adopted in the west. Are they Cantonese or Mandarin, that's the question. ... said: Rursus (bork²) 16:09, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
The names don't look like Cantonese. They instead look like old Mandarin. F.ex.:
  • α Ara, Choo/Tchou, 杵, Mandarin: chǔ “pestle”, Cantonese: Cýu;
  • β Lup, Kekouan, 騎官, Mandarin: qíguān “cavalry officer”, Cantonese: Geihgùn (Sei)
  • ε Sco, Wei, 尾, Mandarin: wěi “the Tail”, Cantonese: Méih.
I change my mind (and PostgreSQL code): it should be some medieval or such Mandarin. ... said: Rursus (bork²) 21:29, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
And secondly: I think that Wade-Giles wasn't around when the aforementioned stars were moved to tWCS (the Western Cultural Sphere), so Pinyin, the transcription default for Mandarin Chinese, becomes prio 1 for me. ... said: Rursus (bork²) 08:57, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Table-ize[edit]

This should be converted into tables, by the 88 IAU constellations, and another set by Chinese constellation, with all the chinese names for the stars listed, and notes on when they were used. The IAU section should be ordered by Bayer designation, or Flamsteed ; The chinese constellation section should be ordered by chinese traditional ordering. Additionally, the Vietnamese, Korean and Japanese cognates should be listed in the chinese section. 70.51.11.91 (talk) 09:16, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Contains too much!![edit]

The article name is "Traditional Chinese star names", but it contains a vast astronomical dictionary in Chinese. Those entries not being star names, should be in other articles. Said: Rursus () 21:16, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

And how do we know the unexplained entries aren't excerpts from Chou En Lai's diary? I'll move them to here because they seems to be pretty meaningless in the article. Said: Rursus () 21:37, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

AfD survival summary[edit]

(AfD = "Articles for deletion")

The article survived this Nomination for deletion. As a complementary information to the template {{cleanup-afd|date=April 2009}} that is in the article, and specifically The AfD discussion, I'll here try to summarize what the AfD discussion says:

1. the article was nominated because it lacks a description of the emergence of the Chinese star names, TODO: add such description,
2. some keep-wishers of the list think it should have transcriptions, TODO: add transcriptions,
3. one keep-wisher think that dictionary entries have no place in Wikipedia, TODO: remove entries that aren't about stars or aren't traditional (say from a time with little western science influence),

... said: Rursus (bork²) 09:20, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect Symbol?[edit]

What does :-) mean under Eta Ursae Majoris? Is that supposed to be 哂 ? 166.217.54.204 (237wins) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.217.54.204 (talk) 05:15, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Seems like a joke to me, but since my knowledge of Chinese has one hole larger than the topic itself, I don't dare to do anything. Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 15:41, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup[edit]

1[edit]

Per WP:ZH, we should move Chinese characters into the appropriate articles and out of the body of others. Does 火羅/火罗 belong at Chinese astronomy or Chinese zodiac? — LlywelynII 14:30, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

2[edit]

I'm sure the sections on planetary, solar, and lunar terms are quite useful and belong somewhere on Wikipedia. However, an article on star names is not the right place. Moved here in the meantime:

Misc. astronomical terms in Chinese:

Chinese terminology regarding the solar system:

Chinese terminology regarding the Moon:

Chinese names for new planets:

Planetary moons:

Planetoids

The 3 Enclosures & 28 Lunar Mansions:

[Removed article text < ! - - commented out - - > above.] — LlywelynII 16:03, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

3[edit]

Moved section on Western constellations within the Chinese system to the Chinese constellations page. — LlywelynII 16:10, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

4[edit]

Began grouping the traditional Chinese star names by ... traditional Chinese constellations. (Why was that not already the standard? It's easy enough to search up or down for the Western names, but the page is on Chinese culture.) — LlywelynII 16:58, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

5[edit]

Did a lot, but tired for now. Moved the remaining western constellations here, for conversion and formatting:

Chinese stars in Scorpius:

Chinese stars in Sculptor:

Chinese stars in Serpens:

Chinese stars in Sextans

Chinese stars in Taurus:

Chinese names for stars in the Big & Little Dippers:

Chinese names for stars in Vela:

Chinese names for stars in Virgo:

[Removed article text < ! - - commented out - - > above.] — LlywelynII 14:22, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Catagorize?[edit]

If it ever gets finished this will be a huge article. It would make sense to break the list down into manageable pieces. Perhaps by enclosures and mansions? Or symbol then enclosure or mansion? Example: Azure Dragon of the East -> Horn -> Horn, Flat Road, Celestial Farmland, Recommending Virtuous Men, etc. Zaryn (talk) 02:12, 4 April 2013 (UTC)