Talk:Arkansas State–Louisiana-Monroe football rivalry

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"Trail of Tears Classic"[edit]

There is not one reliable source to be found that calls this rivalry the "Trail of Tears Classic". Among the two web sources given in the article, one is a dead link and the other does not use the phrase at all. Unless there is a reliable source (i.e. not a blog, discussion forum, vanity press publication, or Wikipedia mirror) that verifies it's known as the "Trail of Tears Classic", the article should not be called that. ... discospinster talk 01:46, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

  • The first link was an article in the San Marcos Daily Record that referred to the game "Trail of Tears Classic." The link was active as of 1-20-2013, and, per WP:LR: Do not delete cited information solely because the URL to the source does not work any longer. WP:Verifiability does not require that all information be supported by a working link, nor does it require the source to be published online. The second source is a published book (ISBN 978-0-8108-9120-3) that can be viewed here. Ejgreen77 (talk) 02:02, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
    • The book you are referring to is self-published through a vanity press, and furthermore was published on September 19, 2013, months after this article was created. Its only mention of "Trail of Tears Classic" on page 241 does not itself contain a citation, and is almost certainly taken from Wikipedia. As I noted above, there is not one other reliable source that verifies the use of this name for the rivalry by either the schools themselves or the media. So basically the title of this page, and the claim that the phrase is used by the media, are based entirely on one article that can no longer be accessed. ... discospinster talk 02:11, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Armbrust The Homunculus 11:02, 18 December 2013 (UTC)


Trail of Tears ClassicArkansas State–Louisiana–Monroe football rivalry – As noted in the article's talk page, there are no available reliable sources that verify that this rivalry is known as the Trail of Tears Classic or the supposed story behind it. The San Marcos Daily Record cite is a dead link, the CFReference cite does not use the phrase, and the book cited post-dates the creation of this article so it's possible, if not probable, that the mention of the Trail of Tears Classic in the book comes from Wikipedia. Without evidence that this is a well-known or widely-used moniker, the article should not be under that title. ... discospinster talk 19:21, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

  • Oppose move per WP:LR, as noted above. Ejgreen77 (talk) 19:33, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Wait, what?? What?? I am disgusted and appalled. I'm not surprised that sources have been hard to find. Strong support Red Slash 00:56, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
  • General comment FWIW, the initial movement to try to delete or rename this page was originally started yesterday by User:TheWABACmachine, a confirmed paid editor out of the ASU PR department (see here and here and here). Make of that what you will. Ejgreen77 (talk) 01:45, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
  • General commentLet's be clear again -- I come to this as much as a GRADUATE of NLU/ULM and a resident of Louisiana. In my day job -- and I've been very up front about it -- I got the heads up that this page existed because it was being cited by a Native American rights group to make both schools look insensitive toward their group. Spent the morning (today, 12/13) confirming with others at both schools, it is simply inaccurate to say this was the name of the series prior to 2008. If anything, it has become a message board and disgruntled fan joke invented after the two schools complied with NCAA requirements to change mascots. One of the new sources is a fan-oriented sports blogger associated with University of Arkansas, not Arkansas State. Apologies if Ejgreen77 is seeing this personal. We can pull out the old Louisiana Sports Almanacs and get references from the Louisiana Sports Hall of Fame if necessary. TheWABACmachine (talk) 18:43, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Support move--and I say that as a longtime LSU hater! Seriously, Discospinster, thanks: good sleuthing. If there are no sources available to support this name it shouldn't be its name. LR or not, I have doubts about the reliability of sports writing in general, and we can't base a name on something that apparently was in a local (but out-of-state_ newspaper) at some point in the past. Drmies (talk) 18:53, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Support. I haven't been able to locate any reliable sources for this rivalry, let alone any that use the offensive nickname "Trail of Tears Classic". In fact, I find almost no mentions of the "Trail of Tears Classic" at all before this article was created in January 2013, and few from before the name change in 2008. Barring a quote from the San Marcos Daily Record source, I suspect this may be a hoax.--Cúchullain t/c 22:32, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
  • General comment Here are two additional neutral, pre-2008 historical citations to disprove the label. Joanne Sloan and Cheryl Watts' College Nicknames and Other Interesting Sports Traditions (Amazon cite: http://www.amazon.com/College-Nicknames-Interesting-Sports-Traditions/dp/0963070037) published in 1993 captured the naming legends of schools along with key rivalry events and traditions. Under A-State, she notes the Osage tribe background of their Indian name. Under then Northeast Louisiana, there is no mention of the tribal backgrounds nor of any series traditions. Bob Remy's Louisiana Sports Encyclopedia (Amazon cite: http://www.amazon.com/Louisiana-Sports-Encyclopedia-Bob-Remy/dp/0882891200) was the standard desk reference work for journalists in the early 1980s. Covering back into the early years of NLU, again, no mention of this series (but it does document things like the basketball team's Pacemaker Classic, etc.) While these may be judged as "paid PR", additionally, neither sport media guides from the respective schools have any reference to this naming. Hope these pre-internet sources can assist in revising the statement within that "prior to 2008" -- again, this is an urban legend, not true series like LSU-Arkansas (Wiki cite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_the_golden_boot) where they play for the Golden Boot or Stephen F. Austin-Northwestern State (Wiki cite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Caddo) and the Battle for Chief Caddo. TheWABACmachine (talk) 14:44, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.