Trajan was nominated as a good article in the History category but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Reviewed version: March 15, 2015
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- 1 So much for "weak eyes"
- 2 Iran/Persia
- 3 "Gate of Trajan" or "Trajan's Gate"
- 4 Major anon uncited additions
- 5 There is some wrong historical information
- 6 Pederasty
- 7 Small Head
- 8 Ten Jewish Martyrs
- 9 Much vandalized
- 10 Categorization
- 11 Hadrian's bringing of the adoption news
- 12 Tiny freaking head
- 13 Selinus in Cilicia or Sicilia, please check
- 14 Ashes
- 15 Trajan
- 16 Trajan's origins
- 17 Trajan's origins (edit)
- 18 Wrong Selinus in the article.
- 19 Romanization of Dacia = Formation of the Romanian people - no word about it?
- 20 Trajan (Traian) as Hadrain!
- 21 Legacy section is unbalanced ...
- 22 Ancient sources on Trajan
- 23 Clarification about GENS
- 24 Era style
- 25 Homosexual
- 26 His official name
- 27 On the role of the Legio II Traiana Fortis in Trajan's Second Dacian War
- 28 GA Review
So much for "weak eyes"
- IN TRANSCRIBING INSCRIPTIONS SMALL CAPS LOOK BETTER AND ARE PRECISELY THE SAME SIZE AS REGULAR MINUSCULE.
- Small caps in transcribing inscriptions look better and are precisely the same size as regular minuscule.
>He was born on September 18, 66 A.D, in the city of Italica. When he became >emperor 45 years later, he thus became the first Roman Emperor not born in >Italy....
--- Trajan's "provincial family," the Ulpii, was originally from Italy and settled in Spain not long after the Second Punic War. They had been active in Roman politics for centuries, and I doubt anyone thought too much about Trajan being born outside Italy when he became Emperor. It was no different than if a U.S. President born in California came to Washington to begin his term. No one would say that was "bad" because California wasn't part of the U.S. until 1846.
Trajan's family was active in Roman politics for centuries after his reign, as well. Aurelian's wife was a member of that family. John
- Is this appropriate: "While many consider Trajan to be an example of how Rome accepted the ideals from all over the empire, many consider the rise of a Spaniard to the top of Roman politics to be the beginning of the fall of true 'Roman' society. Wouldn't it be more informative instead to mention how utterly Romanized Hispania Baetica was? --Wetman 04:15, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
As per the discussion here, I'm going to remove the sentence until someone can produce a reference stating its significance. For one thing, Claudius was not "Italian", he was Roman, which is quite a different thing. For another, this idea that Trajan came from an extra-Roman "foreign" provincial family, regardless of where they'd lived for the past century or so, is simply inaccurate, as another poster has already pointed out. Binabik80 18:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
- The Roman enemy beyond the Tigris at this point were the Parthians.--Wetman 04:15, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
"Gate of Trajan" or "Trajan's Gate"
The article on John Hunyadi mentions this place (and has a link to it):
- Hunyadi, at the head of the vanguard, crossed the Balkans through the Gate of Trajan, captured Nish, defeated three Turkish pashas, and, after taking Sofia, united with the royal army and defeated Murad II at Snaim.
- It is the so called "iron gate." . It is (was) a deep, tight valley where the danube river passes. It is after the Danube has passed
Belgrade. Trajan conquered it out of logistic necessity before he started the first dacian war. He built a road alongside the Danube river passing the so called iron gate. He had to construct the road in form of a balcony into the rock. User: Primitivus; 23:55; 24. Dec.2007 (CEST)
Major anon uncited additions
Recently, someone anonymously added enormous content to this article, without citing a single source. This was way beyond what someone would know offhand. Please, anonymous contributor, if you are reading this, add some indication of your sources!
Meanwhile, if this is not clarified: could someone who knows this area better than me please have a look and tell us if this looks like probable copyvio or not? -- Jmabel | Talk June 29, 2005 05:54 (UTC)
- It´s a clear copyright violation, see: http://www.roman-emperors.org/trajan.htm. Parthian war and other sections were simply copied. I have make a Revert to Wetman, 25. June.
There is some wrong historical information
As I know, Trajan never conquered Dacia completely, I think he conquered something like 15 - 20 %, winning the wars because he took the capital and split the country. But Dacia was not conquered completely and was not part of the Roman Empire.
The romans destroyed the dacian kingdom, althoug, didn't conquer all the ancient territory of the dacians, they took the main and best regions and for two centuries Dacia was roman province, with many roman colonies, very important for the Empire because her gold mines. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk • contribs) 13 Jan 2006
While it is true that Trajan didn't completely conquer Dacia and that its gold mines were valuable, after the death of Constantine the Great the Romans pulled out of Dacia and never returned. The constant invasions of Gothic tribes was to much for the Roman army too handle. --Sgusm (talk) 17:36, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Recently added: "Dio Cassius reports that Trajan drank heavily and was a pederast, but in his relations with boys he harmed no one." Probably accurate, a citation would be nice, but why quote Dio Cassius on this relatively minor matter and not on (what I remember from maybe 30 years ago to be) his wide-ranging praise of Trajan? Or do I mis-remember? -- Jmabel | Talk 01:37, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
- My reading of this passage is that it is supportive of Trajan, rather than deprecatory. As for this being minor, I think that is a matter of opinion. I think it is quite important, it humanizes the man and also counters the tendency of modern writing to depict the ancients, or any alien topic, in a light making them seem "just like us." Haiduc 03:06, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
At the beginning of the article say "He has an abnormally small head."
Well i think that in the statue he can look so, but, i think that there is no other source about this. Can be vandalism in the article?
Ten Jewish Martyrs
- No, this event took place supposedly during the Jewish revolt of 70AD. But there are discrepanceies as the article about the Ten Martyrs names Shimon ben Gamliel as one of them and he was executed in 70AD as well as a Rabbi Akiva who died circa 135AD. In 70AD Vespasian was emperor. The question remains wether it was Vespasian or his son Titus who are meant by this story. And in 135 Hadrian was emperor and Trajan was already dead for 18 years. As the story most likely took place during the First Jewish-Roman War, Hadrian seems unlikely and Trajan impossible. -- fdewaele, 28 November 2006, 20:10
Reading the wikipedia article on the Hebrew Calendar, I came across this reference to Trajan:
Alexandrian Jewish calendar
The Ethiopic Christian computus (used to calculate Easter) describes in detail a Jewish calendar which must have been used by Alexandrian Jews near the end of the third century. These Jews formed a relatively new community in the aftermath of the annihilation (by murder or enslavement) of all Alexandrian Jews by Emperor Trajan at the end of the 115–117 Kitos War. Their calendar used the same epacts in nineteen year cycles that were to become canonical in the Easter computus used by almost all medieval Christians, both those in the Latin West and the Hellenist East. Only those churches beyond the eastern border of the Byzantine Empire differed, changing one epact every nineteen years, causing four Easters every 532 years to differ. [Emphasis Added]
But when I read the entry on Trajan, I find no mention of this. Is the accuracy of that statement disputed?
Isn't the inclusion in Category:Andalusian people anachronistic? This would be like including Immanuel Kant as Russian because Königsberg is now Russian Kaliningrad, or calling King David a Palestinian. - Jmabel | Talk 23:06, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Hadrian's bringing of the adoption news
In fact, Hadrian was not, according to the sources, the one to bring Traian news of his adoption. He wanted to very much and tried to, but was stopped by various people who were out to get him. There was something about sabotage to his chariot I believe. This is according to Suetonius, whom I suspect is usually wrong, but it's the information that exists, so the wikipedia article should reflect that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 18.104.22.168 (talk • contribs) 17:17, 29 April 2007 (UTC).
- I suspect you're thinking of the life of Hadrian in the Historia Augusta, which reports that Servianus attempted to delay Hadrian from delivering the news and that Hadrian's chariot was sabotaged, but that Hadrian still got to Trajan first on foot (2.5–6). Ronald Syme (Tacitus, pp. 600–601) thinks that the story comes from Hadrian's autobiography and was intended to justify the later execution of Servianus. EALacey 17:53, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
I must agree, all signs point to generally untrustworthy statements as being eminently useless from the Historia Augusta. I have actually just read a reference to this story in "The Limits of Empire" by B. Isaac. This sort of anecdote surely falls into that category. Lazarus Plus (talk) 22:46, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
Tiny freaking head
Good gods, he's got such a tiny head! It's disturbingly freaky! Was that how his head was in history? Someone should start a section in his article about his tiny head! —Preceding unsigned comment added by AndarielHalo (talk • contribs) 01:13, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Since when does the apparently small size of a historical figure's head have any significance? Trajan was one of the more respected Roman Emperors, so why the random talk about the size of his skull?
Selinus in Cilicia or Sicilia, please check
According to Mary Boatwright (in A. Barrett, ed., Lives of the Caesars, Blackwell, Oxford, 2008, p. 161), Trajan died in Gazipaşa (Selinus, Selinti, in Turkey, ancient Cilicia), not in the well-known Sicilian Selinus. Please check. --Lionni (talk) 15:34, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Selinus, the site of Trajan's death, was in Cilicia on the south-eastern coast of present day Turkey. See Julian Bennett, Trajan, Optimus Princeps (Bloominton, 1997) pg. 202. The city built a temple dedicated to Trajan and it appeared on their coinage under the emperor Septimius Severus, see Henry C. Lindgren, Lindgren III, Ancient Greek Bronze Coins: The Lindgren Collection (Berkeley, 1994) pg 99, coin A906a.
On another matter, note 7 of the Trajan article has two errors. "Mexicans" are mentioned as traveling with the commander Fuscus. "Lanas" are mentioned and I can find no reference to who they were. Rareanniversary (talk) 21:55, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Is there some truth to the legend that Trajan's ashes were removed or stolen from Trajan's Column by some Spanish ambassador and taken to the Casa de Pilatos palace in Seville near his natal Italica? --Error (talk) 02:26, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Just wondering how this name is pronounced. If he was from Spain, which speaks spanish, wouldn't the "J" in the middle of the name make the "H" sound? So it would sound like the last name Trahan? Just a thought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 22:36, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
- You're joking, right? The Spanish language did not exist in the 2nd century AD, along with French, German, English, Italian, etc. The Romans spoke Latin, if this was not painfully obvious to you before. "Trajan" is simply an Anglicization of his name; in Latin it is TRAIANVS (pronounced: Tray-ee-ah-noose), with no J, since this letter did not exist in the Latin Alphabet of the Roman period. Hope that clears this up.--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:14, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
With Trajan becoming the first non-Italic Emperor,due you think that this marks a turning in the Roman mindset of what it means to be Roman? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nichhowsy (talk • contribs) 22:13, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Trajan's origins (edit)
- While the TP is not a forum, the short answer is "no" - he came from a solid Roman colonial family. It didn't matter that he was not born in Italy. HammerFilmFan (talk) 00:45, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Wrong Selinus in the article.
Trajan did not die in Selinus/Selinunte, Sicily. He died in Selinus, current Gazipasa, some 40km south-east of Alanya, Turkey. That settlement was later renamed Trajanopolis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andershl (talk • contribs) 21:42, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
Romanization of Dacia = Formation of the Romanian people - no word about it?
There are 5 nations and languages with strong and direct roots from the Roman Empire: Italians, Spanish, French, Portuguese and Romanians. The conquest of Dacia by Trajan, marks the birth of the Romanians as a people. The article makes no mention about the Romanization of Dacia which lead to the formation of the Romanian people on that territory. Is this omission intentional and if yes, why? Thewallachian (talk) 17:49, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
- Because that's completely wrong. The Romanian people have their roots in the Vlachs and the nation formed in the Middle Ages. HammerFilmFan (talk) 00:44, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Trajan (Traian) as Hadrain!
I would just like to think the person responsible for indicating the possibility that the visage of Trajan might well have been continued by an imposter! Certainly, the common belief that Hadrian was a native of "Adraini"?, or some other nearby place is wrong? Was the "Adraitic" Sea, named for either? And going deep into the well, could one well consider that "Adrian" was the correct form for both or one?126.96.36.199 (talk) 20:33, 20 January 2011 (UTC)Ronald L. Hughes
Legacy section is unbalanced ...
When I get some time I can cite many references that punch wholes in Trajan's reputation. While an excellent administrator, he wasted valuable resources in Mesopotamia that could have been used to much better effect elsewhere, for example. He did not handle the Jewish trouble well at all, nor did he set up for a successor that could, either - whatever Hadrian's other qualities might have been. HammerFilmFan (talk) 00:05, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
- I would like to see those references that assess Trajan negatively. Yes we all know his eastern conquests were a failure. Yet, he was the first emperor to bring Persia to it's knees, plus he conquered Dacia. The Jews rebelled regularly during that period of Roman history and the issues at hand could hardly be blamed on Trajan. The concept of "resources could have been spent elsewhere" is also hollow. Expansion into Mesopotamia was the last truly profitable region into which the empire could expand. Trajan simply bit off more than he could chew. If anything the idleness of the empire between 117 and the early 160s hurt more in the long run. In retrospect we know it would have served the empire better if Trajan sought to achieve limited, realistic objectives in his eastern war, such as sacking Ctesiphon then settling on the Tigris how Severus and Diocletian did.--Tataryn77 (talk) 06:29, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
Ancient sources on Trajan
It is claimed in the article that "ancient sources on Trajan's personality and accomplishments are unanimously positive".
Clarification about GENS
Traianus was a member of gens Ulpia. He was born in Spain into a Roman family of Italian stock. His mother is unknown; however, his paternal ancestors moved from Italy and settled in Italica (near modern Seville, Spain) in the Roman Province of Hispania Baetica.
That's false. Marcus Ulpius Traianus' gens was TRAII and not ULPIA. Marcus Ulpius Traianus was adopted for a roman family but he was of turdetanii ancestors (iberian tribe of Southwest of Spain) His parents weren't from Italy then. And Trajan adopted his surname
About Marcus Ulpius Traianus' gens you can read: http://uam.academia.edu/AliciaMCanto/Books/1136197/Las_raices_beticas_de_Trajano_los_Traii_de_la_Italica_turdetana_y_otras_novedades_sobre_su_familia_texto_ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 20:05, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
I think that the book of Alicia Canto is not enough to change the incipit, as it has been done, a making Trajan "Born into an ethnically Hispanic family of partial Italian origin". That may of course be true, but as long as we know, his mother was from gens Marcia, his father from gens Ulpia. So I'll reverted back to the previous version. Carlo
Out of respect for the Nerva-Antonine Dynasty, it would be preferred that "BCE" and "CE" be used instead of "BC" and "AD" since these people had no affiliation, or liking to Christianity. If you object, please provide a valid reason as to why. Lupus Bellator (talk) 20:54, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
- There's no call to switch from one convention to the other, per WP:ERA.Cúchullain t/c 20:25, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
- I may sound like a broken record but I agree again with Cúchullain as in talk Nerva. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 20:54, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
- Ditto. Lupus needs to stop his era crusading. Cynwolfe (talk) 21:49, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
- You might be interested in Homosexuality in ancient Rome, in order to see why those modern labels might not be useful in understanding Roman male sexuality. Cynwolfe (talk) 22:43, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
His official name
His name is given (twice) as Imperator Caesar Nerva Traianus Divi Nerva fili Augustus. This should be Imperator Caesar Nerva Traianus Divi Nervae filius Augustus (2 words changed). Collideascope (talk) 22:19, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
- Right. Filius describes Trajan himself and so agrees (nominative) with his name; he's the son of (genitive) the Divine Nerva. Will fix. Cynwolfe (talk) 22:47, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
On the role of the Legio II Traiana Fortis in Trajan's Second Dacian War
The article states that, according to Dando-Collins, the Legio II Traiana Fortis was deployed in Laodicea (Syria) shortly after being recruited along with XXX Ulpia Victrix. Nevertheless, other scholars (Ronald Syme, Ritterling, Strobel, Urloiu...) think that it was actually garrisoned in the lower Danube, most probably in Moesia Superior, before being sent to the East.
Moreover, some of them (again Syme) think that both legions may have fought in Trajan's Dacian Wars.
Ritterling, E., 1925. RE XII. Col. 1485. Syme, R., 1971. Danubian Papers, Bucharest. Page 106. Strobel, K., 1984. Untersuchungen zu den Dakerkriegen Trajans. Studien zur Geschichte des mittleren und unteren Donauraumes in der Hohen Kaiserzeit, Antiquitas I 33. Bonn. Page 98. Strobel, K., 2010. Kaiser Traian. Eine Epoche der Weltgeschichte, Verlag Friedrich Pustet. Regensburg. Page 254-255, 265, 299, 364. Urloiu, R-L., AGAIN ON LEGIO II TRAIANA FORTIS,. History and Civilization. EUBSR 2013 International Conference, Volume 2.
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Trajan/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Initial comments after first read through for spelling, punctuation etc:
- The article uses mostly American spellings, but a few English spellings have crept in and should be Americanised for consistency: "unfavourable", "formalisation", "honour", "imperilled" and "Christianisation", unless any of these spellings is authorised in a reputable American dictionary.
- Parenthetic dashes: the article is a mish-mash of hyphens, en-dashes, unspaced em-dashes and spaced em-dashes. You must comply with the Manual of Style and standardise on either spaced en-dashes or unspaced em-dashes throughout. I know some editors find it difficult to spot these differences, and I hope you will feel free to say if you have difficulty with this: I can help if necessary.
- All the colloquial "wasn't"s, "didn't"s and "it's"s must be changed into "was not", "did not", "it is" etc. See MOS:N'T.
Before I start work on a close reading, may I just check that the nominator is intending to deal with the above points in the next few days? If not, there isn't much point to my proceeding further. Tim riley talk 12:47, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- I think the points above are clear. If you attend to them we can move on. Tim riley talk 10:39, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
- I have been remiss in failing to spot that the nominator has had no part in the writing of this article, and is on present evidence not able to make the necessary changes to bring it up to GA standard. I am failing the nomination, but I will be happy to help with any upgrade preparatory to a second nomination. Tim riley talk 21:33, 15 March 2015 (UTC)