Talk:Trans fat

Trans fat point?

There is smoke point and flash point. So how about a new term that could be called trans fat point; the temperature at which a specific polyunsaturated fat starts to become transfatty? Does anyone have any data? Until then, I suspect that such a temperature could be deceptively below the smoke points of many culinary seed oils--Zymatik (talk) 22:05, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Canola

Is rapeseed oil!! Canola is a abreviation for Canadian Oil.

And there is no such thing as a Canola Bean.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.57.249.9 (talk) 18:29, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I have found many references. I'll edit the first occurrence using a WP reference. David Spector (talk) 15:45, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Where dairy products come from

I don't like this phrase from the second paragraph:

"...dairy products from ruminants."

Aren't all dairy products from ruminants? Isn't this like saying "pork from pigs"? Pork always comes from pigs! Unless the author can name a dairy product which doesn't come from a ruminant, I really think these two words should either go or be re-written as "dairy products and meat from ruminants. Chrisrus (talk) 22:50, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

There are rare exceptions. Mare's milk is consumed regularly in Central Asia, and kumis is the national drink of Kyrgyzstan. But by and large it is true that all dairy products consumed regularly by humans (other than mother's milk, of course!) come from ruminants. --Saforrest (talk)

Wait: What does the word "ruminant" mean? I'll bracket off a link and we can check if mare's or yak's milk comes from a ruminant, too. Chrisrus (talk) 19:30, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Huh. I guess you're right: horses aren't ruminants, or at least it doesn't say so there, and they have an extensive list. But nevertheless, if it's all the same to you, why don't I change it to ""dairy products and meat from ruminants"? I like it better than "meat and dairy products from ruminants."

Human milk is definitely not from ruminants. I've seen reliable sources that it has been used for drinking by adults, although very rarely, so I suppose it could be called 'dairy'. Of course, such use is not related to partial hydrogenation. David Spector (talk) 15:52, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Omega-7 fatty acids need to be discussed separately

Omega-7 fatty acids like vaccenic acid and the conjugated linoleic acids (CLAs), although technically trans fats, are naturally occurring and have specific metabolic behaviors in humans. Recent studies have shown omega-7 fatty acids to have definite health benefits. It is therefore incorrect to include them in an article which categorizes all trans fats as harmful. Gahuntly (talk) 19:14, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

(moved into date sequence)LeadSongDog (talk) 19:29, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

There may be value in the research paper, but if so, the response to that should be to include the material in the article. I'm pretty sure that the National Dairy Council would be a less-than-objective source, though so we should attempt to find another source.LeadSongDog (talk) 19:38, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Autoimmune Targeting of Sphingolipids

The only significant source of trans fats in the biological world is in the form of sphingolipid. These fats (often found in the form of gangliosides) are very important for myelin function, intercellular signalling, and mediating the inflammatory response. Since trans fats in the diet mimic sphingolipids, AND the ingestion of trans fats is associated with inflammation, AND several neurological pathologies are associated with anti-ganglioside antibodies (Wilson HJ; J Neurochem. 2007 Nov;103 Suppl 1:143-9), THEN it is reasonable to assume that ingesting large quantities of trans fats could lead to autoimmune targeting of sphingolipids resulting in anflammatory and neurological diseases... right? Well, ask the scientific community... There are no published, peer-reviewed papers investigating the link between dietary consumption of trans fats and the development of an anti-sphingolipid immune response! If you happen to know someone with research funding, feel free to toss this idea around. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cransona (talk • contribs) 17:24, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

"Worldwide perspective" on dietary fats/oils

IMHO this article has "worldwide perspective" problems (WP:WORLDVIEW}, as it focuses strongly on Europe and North America.

In particular, the sentence "Prior to 1910, dietary fats primarily consisted of butterfat, beef tallow, and lard" strikes me as strongly suspect.

I'm no authority on the history of dietary fats, but Vegetable fats and oils gives us a quick list - Palm, Soybean, Rapeseed (including Canola), Sunflower seed, Peanut oil, Cottonseed, Palm Kernel, Coconut, Olive.

We know that olive oil has been one of the most important dietary fats/oils throughout history. I don't know much about the culinary history of China, but I doubt that butterfat was of much importance there, and I strongly suspect that fats/oils other than beef tallow and lard were widely used.

As I say, I don't know much about this subject and am not competent to work on this article. But can the people who are working on it please correct this problem? Thanks. -- 201.37.230.43 (talk) 02:57, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The exact date may be in some question, but there's little doubt of the basic point. Oilseeds and nut oils were not much used until the industrial age made them easier and cheaper to mill. Have a look at the Butter, Tallow and Lard articles, or just think your way through international animal husbandry practices. In India, Tibet, and much of Africa butters (from cows, sheep, goats, camels, and horses' milk) predominated. In China, southeast Asia, and Polynesia pork lard was preferred to the fat from fowl due to its higher smoke point, though little was wasted (milking a buffalo or an ox is not for the timid...) Olive oil was (then as now) popular around the Mediterranean, but not so much elsewhere. Olive trees just aren't that easy to grow. In short, I don't see a big problem.LeadSongDog come howl 04:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Dont u guyz think we should put more of what a trans fat is than the history behind it?--Antonio cruzazul (talk) 22:59, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Trans fats vs saturated fats

How bad are trans fats when compared to saturated fats? I.e. should I choose the butter with 7g (saturated) fat per serving, or the margarine with 4g of trans fat per serving? (Assuming no other alternative.)

I seem to find little discussion of this. The article seems to assert that the effect of transfats on LDL cholesterol are about twice as bad, but other bad effects might be equal; the UK FSA seems to assert that their danger is about equal by saying "look for the lowest combined amount of saturated and trans fats". Is there any scientific consensus on this? -- Marcika (talk) 15:58, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

I think this page might help you. http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=532 Pyrolord777 (talk) 16:53, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Limited in scope

This page is currently limited in scope. This page could use some more images such as:

1. a map outlining transfat consumption in various countries
2. how rates of transfat consumption has changed over time
3. Tags need to be dealt with

Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 08:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Transfats are not the same as saturated fats. Some saturated fats such as coconut oil and palm oil are staurated fats but do not contain transfats let alone they are transfats. Coconut oil and palm oil are indeed very essentila to health! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.206.70.207 (talk) 18:12, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

A fat that is hydrogenated is ______.

A fat that is hydrogenated is ______.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.223.16.46 (talk) 09:11, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

...is treated with hydrogen gas (or a hydrogen compound) in the presence of a catalyst such as nickel metal. Chemically, some double carbon-to-carbon bonds have been broken and the resulting single loose bonds have been connected to a single hydrogen atom from the gas. Note: this answer has been simplified, so it is technically incorrect. David Spector (talk) 15:59, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

The very first sentence of the article is wrong!

"These saturated fats have.."

By definition, trans-fatty acids are unsaturated (at least as far as aliphatic-chained higher carboxylic acids are concerned, since in unsubstitued aliphatic chains, only sp²-hybridised carbon atoms display E/Z-isomerism). See cis-trans isomers for details.
Cheers,--93.192.179.236 (talk) 03:48, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

This article is produced by scientists for scientists. Like many wikipedia articles it needs a simple explanation early in the article. This statemnent can then be qualified by increasing degrees of sophistication.

So start ; "Trans fats are mainly vegetable fats cooked at very high tempretures". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.14.80.128 (talk) 16:47, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Allergies to trans fats

When I was a child my mother discovered the hard way that she was allergic to nickel, which often gets into partially hydrogenated oils due to its use in the manufacturing process. She wore nickel-plated glasses and still has scars from the rashes which formed around her eyes.

Nickel allergies are not uncommon. For people with nickel allergies, hydrogenated foods can cause a sore throat, or in my mother's case, persistent coughing and hacking up phlegm. Until the incident with the glasses, she thought she would always have the cough; but quitting hydrogenated oils solved the problem, unlike her years of vegetarianism (which caused her to use margarine, which is hydrogenated).

I'd like the article to include something about this but I don't have the citations.

207.241.137.116 (talk) 03:44, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

I can't find reliable online references for oral or systemic allergy from partially-saturated fat. But remember that reactions to toxicity and allergy are very different medical conditions. I did find many references for contact dermatitis caused by unspecified amounts of nickel, problems with nickel in dental alloys, and possible links to arthritis. David Spector (talk) 15:42, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks David, I'd been meaning to look into this for a while, though it's way off topic here. The whole hapten discussion was news to me. PMID 17100760 explains that in sensitive individuals Ni exposure changes levels of IL-2, IL-4, IL-13 and Interferon gamma, linking this change to elevated Th1- and Th2-type cytokine levels. PMID 17244072 found somewhat similar but distinct results. A review at PMID 19447733 supports using ELISPOT testing methods to distinguish allergic contact dermatitis from irritant contact dermatitis based on the presence or absence of allergen-specific T-cells. LeadSongDog come howl! 18:28, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Trans fats and acne

I've noticed that I never get acne if I avoid trans fats, and get it the very next day if I eat more than about a gram.

I have a theory as to why this happens. I believe that fats are digested, pass through the intestinal walls into the blood stream as lipids, then are pulled out of the capillaries by the sebaceous glands, which produce oil that then flows up the pores to the skin. Normally this process works well, but when trans-fats are present, they solidify in the pores and block them, causing acne.

I'd like to know if anyone else has noticed this or if any research has been done in this area. StuRat (talk) 03:58, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Please read WP:NOT#FORUM. User:LeadSongDog come howl 04:13, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Should the theory be included in the main article? Just asking, because it looks reasonable. Whoop whoop pull up (talk) 00:31, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

"0 Grams"

In the section about Major Users, "0 grams" is used frequently, but it is not entirely clear whether this means "no hydrogenated oils" or "less than .5 grams". This should be cleared up, I think 75.189.148.197 (talk) 16:50, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Citation need for lipase activity on trans fats

The 2nd paragraph in the Health Risks section talks about the inability of lipase to break down trans fats. There's a number of problems with this:

• This really belongs in its own section, probably a biochemistry section, and not an anonymous paragraph under health risks.
• The paragraph starts out describing this as "the prevalent theory", indicating that there is at least some credible debate on this, but then makes a flat statement of fact "The human lipase enzyme is ineffective with the trans configuration".
• Neither "the prevalent theory" nor the flat statement of fact are backed up with a citation.
• If human lipase was ineffective with the trans configuration, is it reasonable to suggest that humans would be less able to digest trans fats in the first place and would not absorb as much (or any) trans fatty acids from the digestive system?

A potential citation is Hill, Tine; Sandström, Brittmarie; Bysted, Anette; Hølmer, Gunhild (2001), "Effect of 6 dietary fatty acids on the postprandial lipid profile, plasma fatty acids, lipoprotein lipase, and cholesterol ester transfer activities in healthy young men", American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 73 (2): 198-208, http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/73/2/198 , but the full text is behind a pay wall and I don't have access.

Pstemari (talk) 18:14, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Triple-bond lipids?

The article makes a single reference to lipids containing a triple bond, saying that they "cannot be trans fats," but no lipids containing triple bonds are identified in this article or in any of the articles dealing with lipids. What is the reason behind such a glaring omission? Whoop whoop pull up (talk) 00:55, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Other types of fats are of little nutritional significance. Epoxidized fatty acids are found in 2.5% proportion in peanuts, and cyclohexyl-terminated fatty acids are found in small quantities in butter, but this is hardly relevant. By the way, epoxides can be cis or trans, but this is overshadowed by their overt toxicity. --vuo (talk) 17:53, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

What are examples of epoxidized fatty acids? Whoop whoop pull up (talk) 23:52, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

There has been recent literature involving the use of epoxidized soy bean oil (ESBO) in jar seals. Seems that when the jars contained oily foods, the ESBO was migrating into the oil at unsafe levels. See PMID 18348048.

epoxidized linseed oil (ELSO) is also used in some sustainable plastics applications, and others are being developed for use in paints and polyurethanes. But why is that a "glaring omission"? Is there some triple bond lipid that you think belongs? LeadSongDog come howl! 16:08, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, there is one, and it is now in the article, but it needs an article of its own as well. --Whoop whoop pull up ^{Bitching Betty | Averted crashes} 23:26, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

30,000-100,000 deaths?

As far as I can tell, the cited study makes no mention of this figure. Am I missing something? Budser (talk) 09:26, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, the 30,000 seems to go back to {{cite journal |author=Ascherio A, Willett WC |title=Health effects of trans fatty acids |journal=Amer. J. Clin. Nutr. |volume=66 |pages=1006S–10S |year=1997 |pmid=9322581 |url=http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/66/4/1006S.pdf )). Since these two authors crop up repeatedly in the sources cited, I'd suggest looking through their more recent ones to find where the 100,000 came from. The more recent reviews would obviously be preferred sources. I'd suggest Danaei G, Ding EL, Mozaffarian D, Taylor B, Rehm J, Murray CJ, Ezzati M (2009 April). "The preventable causes of death in the United States: comparative risk assessment of dietary, lifestyle, and metabolic risk factors". PLoS Med 6 (4): e1000058. doi:10.1371/journal.pmed.1000058. PMC 2667673. PMID 19399161. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=2667673. . That analysis puts the total mortality due to high TFAs in the US at (82,000; 63,000-97,000) of the annual 2.5 million. LeadSongDog come howl! 21:18, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Controversy completely ignored

This article completely ignores the controversy about how ingredients containing trans fats were promoted to replace saturated fats only for it to later come out that trans fats are worse than the saturated fats they replaced. Lambanog (talk) 18:34, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Controversy? I thought that was simple history. Is there some source showing it to be controversial? LeadSongDog come howl! 04:21, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

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