Talk:Trinity (nuclear test)

Crazy-ass reference

A recent paper (P.P. Parekh; T.M. Semkow, M.A. Torres, D.K. Haines, J.M. Cooper, P.M. Rosenberg and M.E. Kitto (2006). "Radioactivity in Trinitite six decades later". Journal of Environmental Radioactivity 85 (1): 103–120. doi:10.1016/j.jenvrad.2005.01.017. PMID 16102878. ) reports the levels of long-lived radioisotopes in the trinitite. The trinitite was formed from feldspar and quartz melted by the heat. The ¹⁵²Eu and ¹⁵⁴Eu was mainly formed by the neutron activation of europium in the soil; it is clear that the level of radioactivity for these isotopes is highest where the neutron dose to the soil was larger. Some of the ⁶⁰Co is generated by activation of the cobalt in the soil, but some was also generated by the activation of the cobalt in the steel (100 ft) tower. This ⁶⁰Co from the tower would have been scattered over the site, reducing the difference in the soil levels.

The ¹³³Ba and ²⁴¹Am are from the neutron activation of barium and plutonium inside the bomb. The barium was present in the form of the barium nitrate in the baratol explosive used in the explosive lenses, while the plutonium was the fissile fuel used.

The ¹³⁷Cs level is higher in the sample which was farther away from the ground zero point; this is thought to be because the precursors to the ¹³⁷Cs (¹³⁷I and ¹³⁷Xe) and the cesium to a lesser degree are volatile. The natural radioisotopes in the glass are about the same in both locations.

It's a lot of text, i felt bad just deleting it though it doesn't belong in the citation text. Dumping here in case it should be incorporated into the article. Larryisgood (talk) 13:18, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

reference #31 appears to be dead

1. 31 The Trinity Test: Eyewitnesses returns a 404. Could anyone find the material the reference linked to originally? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.15.13.176 (talk) 11:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Focus of article

The article has too much on the weapon and the Manhattan Project, duplicating what is in other articles, but not enough on the test itself. For example, there is nothing about the cover story that the Trinity test was an ammunition dump blowing up. Would anyone object to my doing some major cuts? I know about BRD, but this one has been stable for quite a time. Figureofnine (talk) 17:20, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, it is full of superfluity. If we removed all the stuff from Manhattan Project, Fat Man, Nuclear weapon design and Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the article could be cut at least in half. This would then allow major improvements to the article. Bomazi (talk) 09:27, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Alamogordo

I believe that Alamagordo in the text should be Alamogordo. Ae1083t (talk) 16:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC) David Adamson

That's right, but I'm not finding an incorrect spelling in the text. Figureofnine (talk) 18:55, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Timing of the 'atmosphere ignition' report

In the Gadget section it says:

'It was feared by some that the Trinity test might "ignite" the earth's atmosphere, eliminating all life on the planet, although a classified report produced several years earlier had demonstrated that this was not possible.[17]'

The report in reference 17 seems to have been written in 1946 (http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/docs1/00329010.pdf), a year after the test, so I think this should be re-worded to remove the reference.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ggaughan (talk • contribs) 07:02, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Although this is not a reliable reference, I once attended a talk by Richard Hamming, the inventor of the Hamming code. In WWII, he was assigned to the Manhatten project, and one of his job was to do this particular calculation. When he showed it to his boss, the boss said thanks and laid the report on a pile of other papers. Hamming asked "Aren't you going to check my work?" and his boss said "I assure you that if you are wrong no-one will complain." So this particular calculation was done before the test, and I believe that given the impact of the problem, several groups were asked to do this calculation. LouScheffer (talk) 12:11, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Here's a reference to doing the calculation before the test, though the report may be after Mathematics on a Distant Planet, by Hamming. LouScheffer (talk) 13:43, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Interesting - another pioneering computer scientist working on Manhattan. It's good they did the calculations before the test. It does seem that reference 17 isn't that report from 'several years earlier' though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ggaughan (talk • contribs) 21:54, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

OK, I did this. LouScheffer (talk) 12:23, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Where was Oppenheimer?

The article currently states: "Two bunkers were set up to observe the test. Oppenheimer and Brig. Gen. Thomas Farrell watched from a bunker ten miles (16 km) from the detonation, while Gen. Leslie Groves watched at a bunker seventeen miles (27 km) away.", First of all, this does not match this map: http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/atomic/images/trmap2.gif Additionally this page on the DOE website suggests Oppenheimer watched the explosion with Kistiakowsky at the south shelter only 10,000 yards from ground zero, while Groves watched from the 10-mile base camp: http://wayback.archive.org/web/*/http://www.mbe.doe.gov/me70/manhattan/trinity.htm (go back to any time prior to 2011, because the page disappeared in early 2011)

Actually, the distances are off by a factor of about 1.6, suggesting that somebody may have gotten sloppy in copying distances in kilometers into this Wikipedia article and saying they were miles, while the new additional conversion to kilometers may have been added later by another editor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.191.33.23 (talk) 04:03, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

The book "The Making of the Atomic Bomb", an excellent reference, has Oppenhiemer at 10,000 yards (9.1km, 5.7 miles) and Groves at base camp (10 miles, 16 km). I changed the article... LouScheffer (talk) 19:36, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

General Patton

"A Mojave Desert Army base near Rice, California was considered the best location, but was opted against because General Leslie Groves, military head of the project, did not wish to have any dealings with Gen. George S. Patton, commander of the base, whom he disliked.[19] "

According to Patton's wikipedia article, in 1944-5, Patton was very busy in Europe - what would he be doing commanding a base in the USA? 86.26.121.213 (talk) 00:06, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

I agree that it seems odd, and I noticed that myself. But it is reliably sourced to the National Atomic Museum in Albuquerque. Figureofnine (talk • contribs) 17:30, 24 December 2011 (UTC)