Talk:True Detective (TV series)

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Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. It is clear from the direction of the discussion that concerns over recentism are sufficiently strong such that no consensus to move the article will be reached at this time. Xoloz (talk) 22:17, 5 March 2014 (UTC)


– The TV series is currently one of the most talked about series on television, garnering critical acclaim and a large fan following. The magazine article is a stub with one reference from 2008. Page views over 30 days (1,512,822 vs. 72,069) and 90 days (2,175,517 vs. 100,717) clearly indicate which article is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC at present. A disambiguation page is not necessary, per WP:TWODABS. Trut-h-urts man (TC) 22:44, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

  • Support per nom. Clear case of COMMONNAME. A hatnote should suffice. -- Wikipedical (talk) 22:47, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Drovethrughosts (talk) 22:53, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. -- SchrutedIt08 (talk) 23:41, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. I think it's clear what our readers are likely to be searching for. —Gendralman (talk) 02:55, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment What is currently talked about and what is the primary topic at present is not reasons good enough for me, but if you think it will remain so for the foreseeable future, then I think the move is quite all right. Bandy boy (talk) 01:30, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Support per nom. It is also abundantly clear that most of True Detective's traffic is from people looking for the TV show. [1] Note the large upswing in traffic in 2014 when the show starts airing, and the weekly spikes in the graph which will be familiar to any TV editor. --SubSeven (talk) 03:02, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. In reply to Bandy Boy's comment, imo Truce Detective magazine will never again have the prominence it once had in public consciousness and in all likelihood will fade to obscurity. If the HBO series goes ahead as planned, it will become far more notable than the magazine.--Reedmalloy (talk) 17:14, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose - Talk about "recentism". Sure there's a great TV (that I enjoy watching) but since it's new and now it shouldn't automatically usurp the older usages that you youngsters who think nothing happened before they were born happened to ignore until the TV show came around. --ColonelHenry (talk) 18:00, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
    • Can you give us an actual reason, founded in policy, why a stub article (despite being eight years old) which had very minimal traffic before the TV show was announced, should not be 'usurped' by the currently 11th most viewed article on English Wikipedia? --SubSeven (talk) 01:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
      • WP:RECENTISM (an essay), a show that has 6 episodes is too recent for a lasting historical impact to be measured--Maybe I'm a little more deliberative than the editors who jump on every development of popular culture, wondering what happens 10 years from now after the show is no longer relevant...and another "True Detective" pops up. Comparatively, if we reduce the application of WP:UCN to a hypothetical comparison...HM the Queen of England almost made Will & Kate the Duke and Duchess of Newcastle instead of Cambridge...would we usurp the long dead, Duke of Newcastle who led England as Prime Minister during the Seven-Years War and for 30 years before running colonial affairs in North America for an heir presumptive who might have the title for a few more years before being elevated to become Prince of Wales? A magazine that has been the forefront of crime short fiction for decades (whether it is a stub is largely inconsequential and irrelevant, most of Wikipedia's literary content is stubs, sadly), shouldn't be trumped by a 6-week old television "now popular" show that was named after the magazine.--ColonelHenry (talk) 01:44, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
        • OK, let's try and look ten years into the future. Here is an HBO show (same network), that was considerably less popular than True Detective, that was cancelled nine years ago. Looks fairly relevant. It is getting about 900 hits per day... versus the 50 per day True Detective was getting... --SubSeven (talk) 04:43, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
          • Perhaps, but Carnivale doesn't link to the show--it links as a redirect to the older pre-lenten festival (Carnival) which likely had less hits than the show when it aired. 10 years later, I can honestly say (having liked the show), that your mention of it was the first time in about two years that I've thought about it. Carnivàle is the show article, but there's a greater chance that people get there while trying to find the festival (given accented vowels in various languages).--ColonelHenry (talk) 05:30, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
          • Comparison, SubSeven - for popular US TV shows currently: House of cards vs. House of Cards (U.S. TV series) vs. other uses; Elementary (TV series) vs. a disambiguation page; Person of interest vs. Person of Interest (TV series); NCIS (TV series) vs. a disambiguation page. Most often, where there isn't an unambiguously unique name, TV series are given a parenthetical. When there's a competing name--even historical and not as "new and improved" popular, there's a parenthetical. When the name is unique, per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, like The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, or Modern Family, there's no parenthetical. However, True Detective magazine is a significant competitor and not toppled by a TV show that is just simply "now".--ColonelHenry (talk) 20:04, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
            • Fair points, I just want to clarify I was only pointing out that Carnivàle is not an irrelevant article ten years after the fact, and True Detective (TV series) will not be either, like you were suggesting. --SubSeven (talk) 04:52, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
              • I doubt Carnivàle's 900 hits are for the show, especially when you look at historic trends, it seems to gain interest after Christmas each year until March...just at the time a lot of people are getting drunk, showing their breasts for beads, or thinking about travelling to warmer places known for such parties. When a lot of dumb Americans see that accent in search results, they probably mistakenly think that's the celebration, not the TV show. Nevermind that there are two resorts named Carnivale--one in Vegas, a ton of casino entertainment locales, and a European river cruise operator. Most of those hits that you're claiming for the largely forgotten TV show easily can be written off as misbegotten searches.--ColonelHenry (talk) 05:01, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Yes, pure recentism. I'm a fan of the show, but there is no primary topic. True Detective should certainly be moved to True Detective (magazine), however. -- Necrothesp (talk) 23:10, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Blatant recentism. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 08:30, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Leaving it as it is helps to find it (True Detective could mean many things), no need to change. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:04, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Not yet. An old magazine published for many years vs. a new TV show. Too early to tell which should win out. Hierophant443 (talk) 17:24, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Per ColonelHenry and recentism. At most, True Detective could be a dab page and both be linked to it. But as for Primary, the historic magazine is clearly the antecedent to the other. Montanabw(talk) 17:32, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Per Recentism; eloquently explained by ColonelHenry, Montanabw et al above. Great show, and I rewatch it all the time looking for clues =) but this should not usurp the magazine simply because one is hip and fashionable today and the other is no longer. Blackberry Sorbet (talkcontribs) 00:24, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Pornographic Photo in Episodes Table[edit]

In the table of episodes, there is a big old pornographic picture that I'm pretty sure doesn't belong there. But I cannot decipher the code enough to figure out how to remove it. danzig138 (talk) 00:18, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

International airing?[edit]

The article seems exclusively concerned with US airing. I believe it is/was available in other countries via other channels than HBO (Sky Atlantic in the UK, I would imagine). Adding non-US detail to the article would be much appreciated. Anna (talk) 18:48, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Individual articles for each episode[edit]

Seeing as how extremely popular this show has become, I think it's justified that each of the eight episodes get their own articles, which cast listings, plot summary, production details and critical reception. Anyone else agree? --The monkeyhate (talk) 13:53, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

  • Nope. I think the episode table on this article page is sufficient for now and there will be little worth expanding at this time beyond those plot summaries since the other information is generally the same. I think the policy against content forking should prevent this expansion of articles because at this time the material in each article will be largely redundant--copying the same production information, cast, and plot summaries already at the parent article, contra WP:REDUNDANTFORK. The critical reception for each episode would be more effective at the parent article level given the show's complex narrative arc and that a lot of the extant critical reception is for the series as a whole. Further, we ought not get into a minutiae of an episode's symbol analysis since again, that kind of material would be more effectively as a whole at the parent article level. The material isn't developed or developable at this point to warrant related articles or spinoffs per WP:RELART, WP:SPINOFF. I also think that the notability guideline on derivatives articles regarding book characters/minutiae would be worth applying here--"it is a general consensus on Wikipedia that articles on books should not be split and split again into ever more minutiae of detail treatment, with each split normally lowering the level of notability"--while some shows that are more developed have articles for each episode, I don't think at this time such article forking will be useful or effective here, and think WP:BKD should have an application with TV shows. Maybe in the future such an idea would be warranted--that time is not now. --ColonelHenry (talk) 15:31, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
    • Throughly Thoroughly disagree with ColonelHenry. If you want to create an episode article, be bold and do it. There is plenty of commentary online to cite regarding production and reception sections of each episode. I'd say go for it. -- Wikipedical (talk) 17:46, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
      • Then you can "throughly" (sic) disagree when I boldly merge any of his forking articles back into the main article per WP:CFORK and WP:BKD.--ColonelHenry (talk) 18:05, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
        • You're serious? Individual episode articles do not fail WP:CFORK, and there's plenty to say on each True Detective episode. That may apply to thousands of Law and Order episodes, but not HBO's new prestige drama, which has hundreds of articles of commentary in major news sources. If The monkeyhate or another user can find the reliable sources to create an article, that is completely reasonable. You should not discourage editors from helping to expand the encyclopedia. -- Wikipedical (talk) 19:54, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
          • Hey, I like the show too, but I also liked Steven Bochco's Murder One (TV series) which was ABC's "new prestige drama" at one point and went on for two seasons (with a lot more episodes) without anyone writing an episode guide. There isn't enough about individual episodes that can't already be properly addressed at the main article. Be bold and create cruft, be bold and merge cruft. Potato Potahto. Policies support both positions, reliable sources and the quantity of quality content determine otherwise. I don't think, in my estimation and after several searches through reviews, etc., there's enough at this point to warrant crufting 8 new, separate articles that are already adequately addressed and can be appropriately expanded in one place where it is already for the time being. Fan-sites and blogs don't count and there's only so much a TV critic will put in an 800-word column on what's new and hip in TV. When people write books and journal articles analyzing the episodes beyond some TV-beat reporter's recap of an episode I'll be monkeyhate's cheerleader. So, for the time being...yes, I am serious. "Merge that shit" will be my mantra.--ColonelHenry (talk) 21:46, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
          • And pop-culture editors pushing out cruft on their favourite TV shows aren't expanding the encyclopaedia, they're creating a fanguide...nothing more. Wikipedia isn't IMDb. If monkeyhate spent his time turning Monkey or Hatred into an FA, that would be expanding and improving the encyclopaedia.--ColonelHenry (talk) 21:56, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Pretty much everything ColonelHenry said about possible sources is wrong. There WAS extensive analysis of every episode posted by significant sources (NOT blogs, NOT fansites, and NOT mere recaps). His response was irrational and ignorant. I hope nobody took it seriously. --SubSeven (talk) 21:01, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Yeah. Thanks for the insult. When there are books and scholarly journal articles, go right ahead...until then, all I seem to find is newspaper television columnists and bloggers with next-day recaps, of the first 20 google hits, 60% are not acceptable under WP:RS or WP:BLOGS, and the rest are either reddit, Wikipedia, HBO, or amazon.com saying it's available on DVD and Blu-Ray, and two (from The New Yorker and The Atlantic) that address the series as a whole. Thus I'm still ready to merge fancruft.--ColonelHenry (talk) 21:06, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Well, you're just a big ol' Wikipedia bully, aren't ya? That's twice you've threatened to merge an article without even reading it or looking at the sources. How about this, if you merge a properly sourced episode article for True Detective that establishes the episode's notability, I'll undo the merge. That sound like a plan? --SubSeven (talk) 05:19, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

True Detective Episode Wikipedia Page[edit]

I think it would work out best if we made a Wikipedia page for all the True Detective episodes.--Einsteinbomb (talk) 22:56, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Further Influences[edit]

The first season is clearly influenced by the McMartin Preschool incident and the documentary film Paradise Lost. Can this be added to the influences section? Or am I off my rocker... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.181.240.195 (talk) 14:04, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Find a reliable source that discusses this and then it can be added. Drovethrughosts (talk) 14:36, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Reception[edit]

The writer Ben Lawrence isn't the football player, unsurprisingly. I have removed the link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.162.12.14 (talk) 14:57, 2 December 2014 (UTC)