Talk:Tsaritsa

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Nichol II[edit]

"The last Tsarina was Alexandria who was married to Nichols II of Russia."

There were tsars after Alexander II. Were they unmarried? - And in any case, "Alexandria" seems a strange personal name.

S.

The last Tsar was Nicholas II and Alexandra was his spouse. This has absolutely nothing to do with Tsar Alexander II. Alexandra is a common female name, dual to male Alexander. ilya 21:56, 5 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Merge[edit]

I suggest that the page "Tsarina" should redirect to "Tsaritsa", because the former is the correct term for a Tsar's wife. grimsky, 28 March 2006.

support. --tasc 10:44, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Why is "tsaritsa" the correct term in English ???[edit]

I've just checked all legitimate dictionaries in onelook.com, as well as standard unabridged dictionaries in English, without finding tsaritsa listed. This may be the correct term in Russian, but what is the basis for asserting this is an English word? Thanks. Daqu 16:53, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Look here: [1]; [2]. --RossF18 (talk) 13:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Two Alexandra Fyodorovnas[edit]

I notice that the two links to Alexandra Fyodorovna actually refer to two different tsaritsas - one married to Nicholas I and one (more famous now) to Nicholas II. Perhaps the experts on Russian history could consider the best way to distinguish them in the article. Dirac66 (talk) 01:57, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Patronymics[edit]

What is the significance of a patronymic which doesn't match the real first name of the father? For example, the last Alexandra Fyodorovna's father was Louis of Hesse, and Maria Fyodorovna's father was Christian IX of Denmark. The article on Alexandra Fyodorovna (Alix of Hesse) says she acquired the name Fyodorovna upon marriage and conversion to Russian Orthodoxy, but why Fyodorovna? Who was Fyodor?? And a similar question applies to all the other patronymics in the article at this date. Dirac66 (talk) 01:57, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

All the patronymics match. I will respectfully suggest you read articles more carefully. Maria Fyodrovna (Alix of Hesse) had the father whose name as duke was Louis IV, but remember that many kings and dukes, similar to Popes, can choose to take on a name of a famous king and add on a number, in this case her father choose Louis IV. His real name, if you read his article, was Friedrich Wilhelm Ludwig Karl. Friedrich, when it's made into a Russian name, is Fyodor. Because there are so many Freidrichs in German and Russian language, it's no surprise that several tsaritsas would have the patronimic Fyodrovna, given that so many Russian czars where married to German and Prussian royalty. Same goes for all the other patronymics. They all match if you check the father's "real" name before they choose the lofty name like Louis IV. --RossF18 (talk) 12:54, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Yes, I had forgotten that kings and dukes often have many first names. I see that your explanation works for the two Alexandra Fyodorovnas (I think you meant to write Alexandra for Alix of Hesse), although I had not realized that Fyodor (from Greek Theodore = Gift of God) is considered equivalent to Friedrich (Peaceful ruler in German). For the other three, I can readily believe that each father had a long series of names including the root of the patronymic, even if this name is not now in his Wiki article.

I had also asked a similar question a few days ago at Talk:Patronymic, so I have now added a note there to refer back to your answer above. Dirac66 (talk) 16:57, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you both :) Mariah-Yulia (talk) 17:25, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
I wouldn't say that Fyodor (from Greek Theodore = Gift of God) versus Friedrich (Peaceful ruler in German) are considered equivalent, but it may be just that when they were looking to give them a Russian patronym, they approximated her father's name and made it Fyodor. These type of meaning approximations are common. They probably thought that a peacful ruler is a gift of God, and there you go, from Friedrich to Fyodor. Just my theory. Besides, a patronymic from Friedrich would be too unwieldy for Russian speakers; Fyodorovna is much easer to say than Friedrichova, at least for Russian speakers. --RossF18 (talk) 18:18, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
How does this explain Maria Feodorovna's father Christian IX of Denmark who had no other name than Christian?--The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 21:38, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
More who disagree with this logic: Catherine Alekseyevna's father was Christian August . Elizabeth Alexeievna's father was Charles Louis.. Maria Alexandrovna's father was Louis.--The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 21:51, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
The logic that it follows the actual names of their fathers or Russianized versioms only work for the daughters of men with the name of Frederick (except in Maria Feodorovna whose father didn't have the name Frederick at all in his given name) and Catherine Samuilovna.--The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 21:51, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

It seems that the Feodorovna patronymic derives from Theotokos Fyodorovskaya.--The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 21:57, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes. For example, the patronymic of Eudoxia Lopukhina was changed on Feodorovna from Illarionova on the same reason. (rus: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Евдокия_Лопухина, chapter "Биография", 1 paragraph, last phrase) Kap677 (talk) 14:57, 21 December 2013 (UTC)