Talk:Tuition payments

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Education (Rated Start-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of education and education-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Universities (Rated Start-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Universities, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of universities and colleges on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 

Article[edit]

to improve grades"??? Are you serious? MC Dupree (talk) 03:19, 2 August 2008 (UTC)ayyyyyyyyyyy bitch ayyyyyyyy okay

This page needs a discussion of historical trends.

U.S. college tuition increases have caused chronic controversy since shortly after World War II. Other industrialized countries whose national governments support higher education have more moderate patterns of change in college tuitions and lower levels of controversy.

Who cares about Canadian tuition? 172.191.42.179 21:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

CFS (Canadian federation of students) cares with their annual tuition protests. 99.230.45.10 (talk) 02:00, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Uhhm I think the sentence "Developed countries have adopted a dual scheme for education: while basic (i.e. high-school) education is supported by taxes rather than tuition, higher education is usually given for a fee or tuition." is kindof US specific. Almost all European countries have free tertiary education (with the exception of the UK) for it's citizens. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.25.153.16 (talk) 07:34, 30 December 2008 (UTC) taylor washington

Hold on a sec. "Tuition" is the process of teaching or training someone. "Tuition Fees" are the costs associated with "tuition". If you're too lazy to use the second word, it doesn't remove the distinction between the two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.16.190.232 (talk) 18:54, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Tuition fees[edit]

It would be useful to have a list of typical tuition fees here. --Petteri Aimonen (talk) 18:42, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: paqe moved to Tuition payments. No point in moving Tuition fees - it's only a redirect to Tuition fees (UK) anyway (due to a move on the 5th Dec). Start an RM at Tuition fees (UK) if you want to change it to Tuition fees in the United Kingdom  Ronhjones  (Talk) 02:21, 31 December 2010 (UTC)



TuitionTuition fees Tuition payments or Tuition chargesRelisted. While there is consensus for a rename, there is still the question of what to move the article to. Vegaswikian (talk) 03:58, 25 November 2010 (UTC) So The article Tuition is the article that is about the concept of tuition fees in a global sense, describing the history of tuition fees around the world. "Tuition fee" currently redirects to Tuition. The article Tuition fees, by contrast, is solely about higher education fees in the UK. This seems to be something of a WP:ENGVAR issue, as the term "tuition" apparently refers to fees in the US, but this is extremely confusing as, in the UK, "tuition" only refers to teaching itself. I would suggest making Tuition a disambiguation page, with links to Education and this page, renamed as "Tuition fees". I hope that makes sense. The Celestial City (talk) 00:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC) Update Amending the first move location from "Tuition fees" to "Tuition payments", as "fees" are apparently an entirely separate payment in the US. See below. The Celestial City (talk) 02:23, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Not sure why, but "Tuition fees" is used much much more. See [1] Mhiji (talk) 05:06, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm sorry but I'm not quite following you. In the U.S., "tuition" and "fees" are two separate concepts. They're often confused by students and others because they're charged at the same time and seem to be for the same purposes but they're not; they're used for different purposes and they're managed and distributed very differently. So the assertion that "'tuition' apparently refers to fees in the US" is very confusing and inaccurate in the sense that those two words are typically used in U.S. higher education. So "tuition fees" is, to my American ears, a nonsense phrase. ElKevbo (talk) 08:49, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
To be specific for non-U.S. editors, "tuition" is a noun and refers to moneys paid to a school, college, or university to pay for the costs of instruction. In the case of post-secondary education, it's usually assessed at a per-credit hour rate, and its money goes primarily to paying instructors, administration, and facilities upkeep. It's the primary source of income for most institutions. "Fees" are smaller amounts paid for a variety of purposes, which varies from institution to institution. For example, there may be a mandatory student activities fee to help fund social activities and special-interest clubs on the campus. "Room" and "board" are neither tuition nor fees and refer to dormitory lodging and dining services respectively. U.S. tax law treats each of these four types of expenses separately, even if they're all included on the same bill of charge from the institution. Powers T 13:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
This is very confusing. Clearly, "fees" refers to something other than tuition fees in the US. Would using "Higher education fees" resolve this? "Tuition" in the US sense appears to be a fee (i.e. a "price one pays as remuneration for services") even if it is not commonly known as such. As for using "fees" and not "fee", this is because there is not one single fee paid for higher education; it differs between countries and institutions. The Celestial City (talk) 15:47, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Yes, it is a fee in the generic sense, but when talking about higher education, "fees" are specifically all obligatory charges other than room, board, and tuition. In the U.S., that is. Powers T 18:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
How about using an alternative word for "fee", such as Higher education payments or Higher education charges? Would that work? We could then explain in the article itself that such payments/charges are known as "Tuition" in the US and "Tuition fees" in other English-speaking countries, such as the UK (link), Canada (link), Australia (link), New Zealand (link) and the West Indies (link). The Celestial City (talk) 19:08, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
"Tuition" is the word used in both countries with or without the addition of the word "fees". "Tuition" is the word that users will look for. Any solution needs to take that behaviour into account. --Bejnar (talk) 19:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
The problem is that "tuition", on its own, does not refer to tuition fees outside of the US; if refers to teaching itself. From a British perspective, having an article on (what we call) tuition fees at "Tuition" is like having an article on Housing Benefit located at "Housing" – its meaning is entirely changed. The Celestial City (talk) 21:46, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
I would expect an article so titled to be about all higher-education fees, not just tuition charges. If we change the word "fee" we don't need to remove "tuition" from the title as well. =) Powers T 19:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
I would certainly support having this article located at Tuition payments or Tuition costs, if that's acceptable with everyone. The Celestial City (talk) 21:46, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
If the article is going to be inclusive of fees then that should be in the title, too.
But it seems that the crux of the issue is that we have a word that is commonly used on both sides of the pond to refer to two very different things. Both words are in common usage so we it seems difficult to just dub one article the "master" article and add a hatnote to it directing some readers to the other article. Are there other examples of this phenomenon? How was this handled in those situations? Without any other guidance, it sounds to me as if we might need a disambiguation page with links to "Tuition (United Kingdom)" and "Tuition and fees" or something similar. ElKevbo (talk) 00:16, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
"Tuition (United Kingdom)" wouldn't make any sense, as, in British English, "tuition" refers to teaching, not payments as in American English. I do think we need a common article as the subject (payments for higher education) is essentially the same, just with different terminology. The Celestial City (talk) 02:19, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
And can someone please point to a couple of good examples of "tuition" being used in the British sense of the word? This is such an interesting revelation to me that I'd love to see this in action! It would definitely help me better understand the situation. ElKevbo (talk) 00:18, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, here's the Cambridge definition, which notes the difference in usage in the UK and US. On an everyday basis, the term is most commonly used concerning private tuition or tuition fees, but refers to the teaching itself rather than the payment. For example, this London-based company is offering German tuition. The term is essentially synonomous with "teaching" and "instruction". The Celestial City (talk) 02:13, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
So in the U.S., "tuition" is just a shorthand; the charges are listed on a typical bill as just "room", "board", and "tuition", with "charges" being implied, and the shorthand versions became standardized in the U.S. Fascinating! Powers T 13:17, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, whereas "tuition" in the UK retains a separate meaning from "tuition fees". This divergence is perhaps because tuition fees in the UK have only existed since 2006; before that, British universities were entirely state-funded. Are we agreed on moving this article to tuition payments? The Celestial City (talk) 22:21, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
Tuition fees have existed a lot longer in the UK - upfront fees for undergraduate courses were introduced in 1998 (and only switched to after the event repayment in 2006). Fees for postgraduate courses, part time and others have existed for much longer. Timrollpickering (talk) 14:37, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Linguistic mini-essay in lede?[edit]

This seems to be a bit WP:UNDUE, not to say WP:OR. Why do we need such a long explanation for the slight variations on linguistic usage (this is not a dictionary of etymology)? Why isn't it sourced? --John (talk) 21:46, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Have you reviewed the section immediately above this one? ElKevbo (talk) 23:41, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Yes. --John (talk) 01:57, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Great. Do you have any proposals that would shorten the lead but maintain some of the necessary info given the different ways this is used in different parts of the world? ElKevbo (talk) 04:56, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, yes. Focus on what the article is supposed to be about, rather than differences in linguistic usage. And make sure everything is referenced, like we are supposed to do. --John (talk) 16:27, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
I agree that the enumerated list is either too long or unnecessary. The reader using this article to learn about "tuition" is going to be informed of the two meanings, and will able to determine whether "tuition" in any context is referring to education, or payment for education. But as it currently stands, there's a concrete problem. In my particular case, I'm Canadian and a university graduate, and until reading a UK English subtitle in a Japanese TV show, which I assumed was mistranslated, I've never heard "tuition" refer to anything other than payment for education. Please note that even where there are references, they may be not be correct. In the previous section, The Celestial City referenced a web site as an example of "tuition" in Canadian English, which in this case follows US usage, but presented it as following UK usage, incorrectly claiming "tuition ... does not refer to tuition fees outside of the US" 24.57.218.21 (talk) 01:39, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Scope of this article[edit]

What is this article about? --John (talk) 04:26, 25 January 2011 (UTC)