Talk:Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Autobiography, can it be retrieved somewhere?

Here on the socalled Anti-Shugden [1] the existence of an autobiography written by Drakpa Gyaltsen is mentioned.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.202.168 (talk) 11:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

There it is also said, that Drakpa Gyaltsen (1619-1656) was the fake fourth reincarnation of Penchen Sonam Drakpa (1478-1554). :Austerlitz -- 88.75.72.76 (talk) 10:02, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Who is (was) Trulku Gelek Palsang? :Austerlitz -- 88.75.72.76 (talk) 10:14, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Incarnation no. 3

He has been the Ganden Tripa as one can read here [2] "Shartsey College uses the textbooks of the Fifteenth Ganden Tripa, Panchen Sonam-dragpa (Pan-chen bSod-nams grags-pa) (1478-1554), ".

Austerlitz -- 88.75.93.86 (talk) 23:27, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

upper chamber http://antishugden.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=58:origin-of-dholgyal-worship&catid=34:history

"- it was widely known that after Drakpa Gyaltsen’s death, the upper Chamber, his residential palace, was haunted by a very harmful spirit."

upper chamber; the upper chamber has been his residential palace is said here. Are there different/various upper chambers in Tibetan Buddhism, or does this term always refer to Ganden?

Austerlitz -- 88.75.72.76 (talk) 10:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

sorry, seems as if I've erred in numbers, incarnation no. 3 on the site of the article is Sonam Gelek Palzang (1594-1615) and not Panchen Sonam-dragpa.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.72.76 (talk) 10:33, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

some words on chambers [3], [4].

Austerlitz -- 88.75.72.76 (talk) 13:56, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

quote from above link no.3: "Old records show that there were two centres of power in Drepung: the so-called lower chamber associated with the Dalai Lamas-to-be, and the upper chamber associated with the descendants of Sonam Drakpa, an illustrious teacher who died in 1554."

quote from above link no.4: "Due to the antagonism between the Ganden Phodrang of the Fifth Dalai Lama and the upper chamber of Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen and because of inner and outer inauspiciousness this problem arose."

Austerlitz -- 88.75.72.76 (talk) 14:23, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

His mother

Extract from the autobiography of the Fifth Dalai Lama called Dukulai Gosang, Volume Kha, Lhasa Publication "Because of the manipulations of Lag Agyal (the mother) of Gekhasa, the false reincarnation of Tulku Sonam Geleg Palsang (Tulku Dakpa Gyaltsen) got his way (and was installed as the successful candidate)." The name given on Anti-Shugden Page is obviously right.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.72.76 (talk) 10:54, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

His Seat

Drepung monastery (tib. ‘Bras-spungs dGon-pa), sounds like the place of his seat.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.66.96 (talk) 11:33, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Austerlitz -- 88.75.66.96 (talk) 11:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
  • A Brief History of Drepung Monastery (english) "The great monastery of Drepung (‘Bras-spungs dGon-pa)", "In those days, there were even people who referred to the Dalai Lama or Gyelwa Rinpoche (rGyal-ba Rin-po-che) as the Drepung Tulku (‘Bras-spungs sPrul-sku). [His was the first line of incarnate lamas (tulkus) in the Gelug tradition.]", "the Second Dalai Lama, Gyelwa Gendun-gyatso (rGyal-ba dGe-’dun rgya-mtsho)"

from the article: "Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen (Tibetan: སྤྲུལ་སྐུ་གྲགས་པ་རྒྱལ་མཚན; Wylie: sprul sku grags pa rgyal mtshan"

Austerlitz -- 88.75.66.96 (talk) 16:11, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

'bras spungs dgon pa = Drepung Monastery [W of Lhasa [R] [IW] taken from www.nitartha.org search page

Austerlitz -- 88.75.66.96 (talk) 16:14, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Predecessors

  • A BRIEF HISTORY: DREPUNG LOSELING COLLEGE "Panchen Sonam Dakpa (1478-1554) became one of the main disciples of the Second Dalai Lama Gedun Gyatso (1476- 1542). As directed by the Second Dalai Lama, Panchen Sonam Dakpa became the Loseling abbot and taught there for about six years. He took a great responsibility for its academic activities and administrations. For the benefit of all beings, he bestowed upasaka vows to the Third Dalai Lama and named him Sonam Gyatso Pel Sangpo."

Dalai Lama

Austerlitz -- 88.75.66.96 (talk) 17:05, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Link no.7 doesn't work anymore.

  • [7] a book written by Panchen Sonam Dragpa
Austerlitz -- 88.75.66.96 (talk) 21:19, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
  • [8] "The 3rd Dalai Lama Sonam Gyatso took birth in Central Tibet to a upper-class family. He was recognized and subsequently enthroned at Drepung Monastery by Panchen Sonam Drakpa." "The young Dalai Lama was tutored by Panchen Sonam Drakpa. Panchen Sonam Drakpa was the 15th Ganden Tripa and his texts still serve as the core curriculum for most Gelugpa monasteries."
Austerlitz -- 88.75.66.96 (talk) 21:52, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Thinking about

"Because of the manipulations of Lag Agyal (the mother) of Gekhasa, the false reincarnation of Tulku Sonam Geleg Palsang (Tulku Dakpa Gyaltsen) got his way (and was installed as the successful candidate)." Sonam Geleg Palsang

Austerlitz -- 88.72.13.89 (talk) 22:44, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

On the socalled Anti Shugden, which doesn't exist anymore, it had been said, that Drakpa Gyaltsen (1619-1656) was the fake fourth reincarnation of Penchen Sonam Drakpa (1478-1554).

Austerlitz -- 88.72.13.89 (talk) 22:47, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Information from Shugden Site

see section The Fifth Dalai Lama and his peer Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen

Austerlitz -- 88.72.13.89 (talk) 09:38, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Information from Dalai Lama Site

  • [10] "[H.H.- Gekhasa was the location of Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen�s (1617-56) birthplace. Lak Ahgyal was the name of Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen�s mother. She seems to have been a very capable women. To begin with there had even been a rumour that her son was the reincarnation of Gyalwa Yonten Gyatso (the Fourth Dalai Lama). Gekhasa is probably in Toelung. Therefore, the text says, �because Lak Ahgyal was so clever and skilful the false reincarnation of Tulku Sonam Geleg Palzang was successful�.

Tulku Sonam Gelek Palsang was the reincarnation of Dho-Ngag Rabjam M�awa Panchen Sonam Drakpa (1478-1554). Then, because of Ahgyal�s skilful manipulation Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen came to be known as the reincarnation of Gelek Palsang. However, this text states that he was indeed a mistaken and false reincarnation. When the text says �he was successful� it means that even though he was the false reincarnation, he succeeded in maintaining his position as the real incarnation. Then it says,]"

Austerlitz -- 88.72.13.89 (talk) 09:45, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
  • The Third Dalai Lama, Sonam Gyatso "In 1546, at the age of three, Sonam Dakpa Gyaltsen, the ruler of Tibet, and Panchen Sonam Dakpa recognized him as the reincarnation of Gedun Gyatso. He was escorted to Drepung monastery in a great procession and was enthroned and his hair was cut, symbolizing his renunciation of the world. He took novice vows from Sonam Dakpa at the age of seven and assumed the name of Sonam Gyatso. At the age of twenty-two, he took the Gelong vows (full ordination) of Bhiksu from Gelek Palsang."

Sonam Dakpa Gyaltsen, Panchen Sonam Dakpa, Gelek Palsang

Austerlitz -- 88.72.13.89 (talk) 21:49, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Gendun Drup, [11]

Austerlitz -- 88.72.13.89 (talk) 22:33, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Names

grags pa rgyal mtshan, the nithartha search page only refers to the Sakyapa Drakpa Gyaltsen -- 88.72.13.89 (talk) 22:52, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Wylie transliteration: ye shes mtsho rgyal.for Yeshe Tsogyal. meaning of rgyal mtshan and mtsho rgyal ?

Austerlitz -- 88.75.210.76 (talk) 12:47, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

According to her wikisite rgyal mo means Queen: "Queen (rgyal mo)".

Austerlitz -- 88.72.25.26 (talk) 08:58, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Number zero

  • [12] How is the connection?
Austerlitz -- 88.72.23.180 (talk) 23:44, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Xalu monastery

Austerlitz -- 88.72.23.180 (talk) 23:49, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

What is this?

gzims khang gong ma 02 gzims khang gong ma 03 gzims khang gong ma 04

Austerlitz -- 88.75.192.72 (talk) 23:15, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

[13], [14], gzims khang gong ma 01 bsod nams grags pa [ title ], "The Sovereign Power of the Fifth Dalai Lama: sPrul sku gZims-khang-gong-ma and the Removal of Governor Nor-bu" in Memoirs of the Research Department of The Toyo Bunko (The Oriental Library) No. 53, Tokyo, 1995;", http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/%27bras_spungs_gzims_khang_gong_ma, http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/bsod_nams_ye_shes_dbang_po, bsod nams grags pa.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.192.72 (talk) 23:47, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Sonam Gyatso/ Wylie: Bsod-nams Rgya-mtsho, [15] "Gzims-khang Gong-ma incarnation lineage", -- 88.75.192.72 (talk) 00:13, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Here it is said that Sönam Gelek Pelzang (1594-1615) has been the fourth incarnation, or trülku, in the Drepung Zimkhang Gong ma line.

One footnote (13) says: "E. Gene Smith has also studied the history of Dorje Shukden and his cult, but his work remains unpublished. Interestingly, hiwever, his work appears to be the earliest scholarship on Shukden and his cult, predating not only the murders of Lozang Gyamtso and his students, but also the current Dalai Lama's first public disavowal of the deity, which, as we have seen, occurred 1976. A reference to this work can be found in Jackson 2003 p. 729. the work itself is a paper presented to the Inner Asia Colloquium at the University of Washington on July 25, 1963."

Austerlitz -- 88.75.206.96 (talk) 10:48, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

number of incarnations as it seems to me now, it's Dragpa Gyaltsen who has been considered to be the fourth incarnation in the Drepung Zimkhang Gong ma line.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.88.89 (talk) 11:34, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

gzims khang gong ma means upper residence, accoding to this glossary [18]

Austerlitz -- 88.75.88.89 (talk) 11:34, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Lineage

Buton Rinchen Drub (Wylie: Bu-ston Rin-chen 'Grub) 

   * rin chen grub [ primaryName ]

   * bu ston rin chen grub [ primaryTitle ]

   * bu ston thams cad mkhyen pa [ title ]

   * bu ston kha che [ title ]

Panchen Sonam Dragpa 

   * bsod nams grags pa [ primaryName ]

   * paN chen bsod nams grags pa [ title ]

   * khri 15 bsod nams grags pa [ primaryTitle ]

   * rtses thang paN chen bsod nams grags pa [ title ]

   * gzims khang gong ma 01 bsod nams grags pa [ title ]

Sonam Yeshe Wangpo 

   * bsod nams ye shes dbang po [ primaryName ]

   * gzims khang gong ma 02 bsod nams ye shes dbang po [ primaryTitle ]

Sonam Gelek Palzang 

   * bsod nams dge legs dpal bzang [ primaryName ]

   * gzims khang gong ma 03 bsod nams dge legs dpal bzang [ primaryTitle ]

Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen 

   * grags pa rgyal mtshan [ primaryName ]

   * gzims khang gong ma 04 grags pa rgyal mtshan [ primaryTitle ]
Austerlitz -- 88.75.89.225 (talk) 12:47, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Title

Austerlitz -- 88.72.0.172 (talk) 15:41, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Some news

"Before his death in 1554, Sönam Drakpa established his own estate, the Upper Chamber (Zimkhang Gongma), which was named because of its location at the top of Drepung, just below the Ngakpa debating courtyard. It is hard to know whether the creation of this estate represents an attempt by Sönam Drakpa to rival the Dalai Lama, but such rivalry did eventually develop, ending with the tragic death of Drakpa Gyeltsen, Sönam Drakpa’s second reincarnation and the rival of the Fifth Dalai Lama, followed by the discontinuation of this major reincarnation lineage."

Austerlitz -- 88.75.197.122 (talk) 19:12, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

19.Panchen Sönam Gyatso - pan chen bsod nams rgya mtsho - 1527-1570 - 1565-1570 (Holding the lineage

Austerlitz -- 88.75.197.122 (talk) 20:01, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Lineage, again

It is said that there are kind of spiritual lineages and recognized lineage of a lama.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.209.44 (talk) 15:49, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Search for his reincarnation has been banned

Why? I wonder. And by whom? As far as I have heard(read), some of the Dalai Lamas and other high Lamas have been killed during history. But their reincarnations have not been banned, as far as I've come to know. Maybe they were not angry. Today I've read about one other type of ban, [22],"He [the 10th Shamarpa] was exiled from Tibet and a ban placed on his future incarnations, thereby abolishing the Shamarpa line.[8][9] In 1963, following a request from the 16th Karmapa, the Tibetan government lifted the ban.[10]"

Austerlitz -- 88.75.73.188 (talk) 13:22, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
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