Talk:Turkish Brigade

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I need help in organizing this article. All inputs and suggestions welcome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.56.118.177 (talk) 14:07, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

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Serious pro turkish whitewashing[edit]

According to reliable sources like "Disaster in Korea: The Chinese Confront MacArthur" By Roy E. Appleman, the turkish brigade's performance against Chinese forces were atrocious. The turks actually slaughtered and captured a band of several hundred south korean soldiers whom they mistook for chinese a few miles away from wawon, the battle was falsely reported in the western press as a turkish victory.

The chinese inflicted decisive defeats upon turks around wawon and sinnim-ni and on the road towards tokchon. The article as it stands now, is nothing more than turkish nationalist propaganda.

Title Disaster in Korea: The Chinese Confront MacArthur Texas Aamp;m University Military History Series Williams-Ford Texas a&M University Military History Series Author Roy E. Appleman Edition illustrated Publisher Texas A&M University Press, 2009 ISBN 160344128X, 9781603441285 Length 476 pages


http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&pg=PA89&dq=disaster+in+korea+appleman+erroneous+turks+rok+wawon&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NImhUN7qPMLl0gGrmIGwDw&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&pg=PA89&dq=disaster+in+korea+appleman+chinese+turks+decisive+defeat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZImhUMKvGbGu0AG564C4DA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&pg=PA90#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&pg=PA206&dq=disaster+in+korea+appleman+turks+ineffective&hl=en&sa=X&ei=y4mhUI3AL6rh0wHy6IGQDg&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&pg=PA190&dq=disaster+in+korea+appleman+deal+ccf+threat+quarter+chinese+forces+defeated+turks+road+tokchon&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_YmhUKvBD9CM0QH2rIGQDw&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&dq=disaster+in+korea+appleman&q=Turks+rok#v=onepage&q=Erroneous%20Turks%20rok%20%20wawon&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&dq=disaster+in+korea+appleman&q=Chinese+turks+decisive+defeat#v=snippet&q=Chinese%20turks%20decisive%20defeat&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&dq=disaster+in+korea+appleman&q=Turks+ineffective#v=snippet&q=Turks%20ineffective&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&dq=disaster+in+korea+appleman&q=Turks#v=snippet&q=Deal%20Ccf%20Threat%20Quarter%20Chinese%20forces%20defeated%20turks%20road%20tokchon&f=false

http://www.doureios.com/magazine/TurksInKorea.html

18:30, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Please feel free to add relevant information as long as you reference it. Thanks for the links, by the way. --Kansas Bear (talk) 05:22, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Page 89

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&pg=PA89&dq=He+reported+back+that+the+Turks+actually+had+met+about+200+ROK+troops+retreating+from+Tokchon,+had+thought+they+were+Chinese,+and+had+attacked+them,+killing+many+and+capturing+about+125.+These+ROKs+were+members+of+the+ROK+6th+and+7th+divisions.+There+were+no+Chinese+involved+in+this+first+fight+the+Turks+had+in+Korea.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=JctRU76vCZKysASg0oG4DA&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=He%20reported%20back%20that%20the%20Turks%20actually%20had%20met%20about%20200%20ROK%20troops%20retreating%20from%20Tokchon%2C%20had%20thought%20they%20were%20Chinese%2C%20and%20had%20attacked%20them%2C%20killing%20many%20and%20capturing%20about%20125.%20These%20ROKs%20were%20members%20of%20the%20ROK%206th%20and%207th%20divisions.%20There%20were%20no%20Chinese%20involved%20in%20this%20first%20fight%20the%20Turks%20had%20in%20Korea.&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&pg=PA89&dq=It+is+certain,+however,+that+during+the+day,+and+probably+during+the+morning,+Chinese+ambushed+the+leading+battalion+of+the+Turks+three+to+four+miles+east+of+Wawon+and+inflicted+on+it+a+decisive+defeat.+It+appears+that+one+battalion+of+the+Turks+lost+most+if+not+all+of+its+vehicles+in+this+fight,+that+their+personnel+losses+were+heavy,+and+that+survivors+took+to+thr+hills+if+they+coild+not+retreat+back+west+on+the+road&hl=en&sa=X&ei=nctRU6C7M9TKsQTmm4G4Cw&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=It%20is%20certain%2C%20however%2C%20that%20during%20the%20day%2C%20and%20probably%20during%20the%20morning%2C%20Chinese%20ambushed%20the%20leading%20battalion%20of%20the%20Turks%20three%20to%20four%20miles%20east%20of%20Wawon%20and%20inflicted%20on%20it%20a%20decisive%20defeat.%20It%20appears%20that%20one%20battalion%20of%20the%20Turks%20lost%20most%20if%20not%20all%20of%20its%20vehicles%20in%20this%20fight%2C%20that%20their%20personnel%20losses%20were%20heavy%2C%20and%20that%20survivors%20took%20to%20thr%20hills%20if%20they%20coild%20not%20retreat%20back%20west%20on%20the%20road&f=false

Page 90

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&pg=PA90&lpg=PA90&dq=they+were+following.+The+records+show+only+that+the+next+morning,+28+November,+many+Turkish+stragglers+appeared+in+the+zone+of+the+38th+Infantry,+north+and+northwest+of+the+Wawon+road,+and+that+2nd+Division+observers+saw+part+of+the+Turkish+command+retreating+west+toward+Kunu-ri.&source=bl&ots=EVZOk6Dxza&sig=_CtUekYJXZEjcOAx9xE1e-WRzQU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kMxRU4SzFfLUsASrxYCgAg&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=they%20were%20following.%20The%20records%20show%20only%20that%20the%20next%20morning%2C%2028%20November%2C%20many%20Turkish%20stragglers%20appeared%20in%20the%20zone%20of%20the%2038th%20Infantry%2C%20north%20and%20northwest%20of%20the%20Wawon%20road%2C%20and%20that%202nd%20Division%20observers%20saw%20part%20of%20the%20Turkish%20command%20retreating%20west%20toward%20Kunu-ri.&f=false

Page 92

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&pg=PA92&dq=their+battles+with+the+Chinese+on+the+road+from+Tokchon+to+Kunu-ri+and+around+Kaechon+and+Kunu-ri,+the+Turks+had+lost+about+20+percent+(roughly+1,000+men)+in+killed,+wounded,+and+missing+in+action.+They+had+lost+approximately+90+percent+of+their+communication+equipment+and+vehicles.+Only+six+artillery+pieces+remained+to+them.29+Thus,+in+its+destruction+of+the+ROK+II+Corpsm+the+CCF,+it+must+be+stated,+also+rendered+combat+ineffective+the+Turkish+command+of+about+5,000+men.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Fs1RU6rBFOajsQTb0YH4BA&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=their%20battles%20with%20the%20Chinese%20on%20the%20road%20from%20Tokchon%20to%20Kunu-ri%20and%20around%20Kaechon%20and%20Kunu-ri%2C%20the%20Turks%20had%20lost%20about%2020%20percent%20(roughly%201%2C000%20men)%20in%20killed%2C%20wounded%2C%20and%20missing%20in%20action.%20They%20had%20lost%20approximately%2090%20percent%20of%20their%20communication%20equipment%20and%20vehicles.%20Only%20six%20artillery%20pieces%20remained%20to%20them.29%20Thus%2C%20in%20its%20destruction%20of%20the%20ROK%20II%20Corpsm%20the%20CCF%2C%20it%20must%20be%20stated%2C%20also%20rendered%20combat%20ineffective%20the%20Turkish%20command%20of%20about%205%2C000%20men.&f=false

Page 190

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&pg=PA190&dq=It+has+already+been+noted+that+General+Walker+had+directed+the+IX+Corps+to+send+the+Turkish+Brigade+to+Tokchon+to+halt+the+retreat+of+the+ROK+II+Corps+and+to+deal+with+the+CCF+threat+from+that+quarter.+But+Chinese+forces+had+met+and+defeated+the+Turks+on+the+road+to+Tokchon.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=a81RU8-YJMmnsATd_4GoDg&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=It%20has%20already%20been%20noted%20that%20General%20Walker%20had%20directed%20the%20IX%20Corps%20to%20send%20the%20Turkish%20Brigade%20to%20Tokchon%20to%20halt%20the%20retreat%20of%20the%20ROK%20II%20Corps%20and%20to%20deal%20with%20the%20CCF%20threat%20from%20that%20quarter.%20But%20Chinese%20forces%20had%20met%20and%20defeated%20the%20Turks%20on%20the%20road%20to%20Tokchon.&f=false

Page 206

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&pg=PA206&dq=Just+before+noon,+a+Chinese+force+drove+the+Turks+out+of+Sinnim-ni.+They+began+falling+back+on+Pyongmyong-ni+and+Kunu-ri+in+utter+disorder.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=7s1RU6W4FYHJsQSbvYLADA&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Just%20before%20noon%2C%20a%20Chinese%20force%20drove%20the%20Turks%20out%20of%20Sinnim-ni.%20They%20began%20falling%20back%20on%20Pyongmyong-ni%20and%20Kunu-ri%20in%20utter%20disorder.&f=false

Page 207

http://books.google.com/books?id=k8d2YX43hMoC&pg=PA207&dq=Peploe+ordered+his+1st+Battalion+to+reinforce+his+right+flank.+On+its+way+to+carry+out+this+mission,+the+battalion+encountered+great+numbers+of+Turkish+soldiers+and+their+vehicles+on+the+road+in+complete+rout.+The+1st+Battalion,+caught+up+in+this+chaos,+was+unable+to+accomplish+its+purpose.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gt1RU5zDF-2zsATzr4C4DQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Peploe%20ordered%20his%201st%20Battalion%20to%20reinforce%20his%20right%20flank.%20On%20its%20way%20to%20carry%20out%20this%20mission%2C%20the%20battalion%20encountered%20great%20numbers%20of%20Turkish%20soldiers%20and%20their%20vehicles%20on%20the%20road%20in%20complete%20rout.%20The%201st%20Battalion%2C%20caught%20up%20in%20this%20chaos%2C%20was%20unable%20to%20accomplish%20its%20purpose.&f=false

Title Conflict: The History of the Korean War, 1950-53 Author Robert Leckie Edition illustrated, reprint Publisher Da Capo Press, 1996 ISBN 0306807165, 9780306807169

http://books.google.com/books?id=jD9JHT61bHwC&pg=PA203&dq=The+word+was+flashed+that+the+Turks,+meeting+the+Chinese+for+the+first+time,+had+dealt+them+a+bloody+repulse+at+bayonet+point;+it+was+the+first+...+The+word+gave+a+lift+to+the+neighbors.+Lt.+Sukio+Oji,+a+Nisei+interpreter,+was+sent+by+2nd+Division+to+interview+the+prisoners.+Instead+of+Chinese,+he+found+200+forlorn+ROKs+who+had+blundered+into+the+Turkish+column+while+beating+their+way+back+from+the+fight+at+Tokcon.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jrlRU_GnAoamsASUm4G4AQ&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20word%20was%20flashed%20that%20the%20Turks%2C%20meeting%20the%20Chinese%20for%20the%20first%20time%2C%20had%20dealt%20them%20a%20bloody%20repulse%20at%20bayonet%20point%3B%20it%20was%20the%20first%20...%20The%20word%20gave%20a%20lift%20to%20the%20neighbors.%20Lt.%20Sukio%20Oji%2C%20a%20Nisei%20interpreter%2C%20was%20sent%20by%202nd%20Division%20to%20interview%20the%20prisoners.%20Instead%20of%20Chinese%2C%20he%20found%20200%20forlorn%20ROKs%20who%20had%20blundered%20into%20the%20Turkish%20column%20while%20beating%20their%20way%20back%20from%20the%20fight%20at%20Tokcon.&f=false

Title The Forgotten War: America in Korea, 1950-1953 Author Clay Blair Edition illustrated, reprint Publisher Naval Institute Press, 2003 Original from Indiana University Digitized Nov 7, 2008 ISBN 1591140757, 9781591140757

Page 451

http://books.google.com/books?id=F-afAAAAMAAJ&q=With+their+colorful,+flowing+mustaches,+swarthy+complexions,+and+fierce+demeanors,+they+gave+war+correspondents+and+others+the+impression+they+were+very+tough+soldiers.+The+reality+was+that+they+were+ill+trained,+ill+led,+and+green+to+combat.+Mike+Michaelis+remembered:+%22The+Turks+were+commanded+by+an+aged+brigadier+who+had+been+a+division+commander+at+Gallipoli+in+1916+fighting+the+British!+He+was+highly+respected,+high+up+in+the+Turkish+military+establishment,+and+took+a+bust+to+brigadier+to+command+the+brigade.&dq=With+their+colorful,+flowing+mustaches,+swarthy+complexions,+and+fierce+demeanors,+they+gave+war+correspondents+and+others+the+impression+they+were+very+tough+soldiers.+The+reality+was+that+they+were+ill+trained,+ill+led,+and+green+to+combat.+Mike+Michaelis+remembered:+%22The+Turks+were+commanded+by+an+aged+brigadier+who+had+been+a+division+commander+at+Gallipoli+in+1916+fighting+the+British!+He+was+highly+respected,+high+up+in+the+Turkish+military+establishment,+and+took+a+bust+to+brigadier+to+command+the+brigade.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=iQRSU5qYPJWssQSkpoCwDA&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?ei=qARSU627OJOlsATzgYHgCQ&id=F-afAAAAMAAJ&dq=With+their+colorful%2C+flowing+mustaches%2C+swarthy+complexions%2C+and+fierce+demeanors%2C+they+gave+war+correspondents+and+others+the+impression+they+were+very+tough+soldiers.+The+reality+was+that+they+were+ill+trained%2C+ill+led%2C+and+green+to+combat.+Mike+Michaelis+remembered%3A+%22The+Turks+were+commanded+by+an+aged+brigadier+who+had+been+a+division+commander+at+Gallipoli+in+1916+fighting+the+British%21+He+was+highly+respected%2C+high+up+in+the+Turkish+military+establishment%2C+and+took+a+bust+to+brigadier+to+command+the+brigade.&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=reality+ill+trained+ill+led+green+combat

http://books.google.com/books?id=F-afAAAAMAAJ&q=Mike+Michaelis+remembered:+%22The+Turks+were+commanded+by+an+aged+brigadier+who+had+been+a+division+commander+at+Gallipoli+in+1916+fighting+the+British!+He+was+highly+respected,+high+up+in+the+Turkish+military+establishment,+and+took+a+bust+to+brigadier+to+command+the+brigade.+The+average+Turk+soldier+in+the+brigade+came+from+the+steppe+country+of+Turkey,+near+Russia,+had+probably+had+only+three+or+four+years+of+school,+was+uprooted,+moved+to+western+Turkey,+given+a+uniform,+%5Ba%5D+rifle,+and+a+little+smattering+of+training,+stuck+on+a+ship,+sailed+ten+thousand+miles,+then+dumped+off+on+a+peninsula+–+‘Korea,+where’s+that?’+–+and+told+the+enemy+was+up+there+someplace,+go+get+him!+The+Turk+soldier+scratches+his+head+and+says,+‘What’s+he+done+to+me?&dq=Mike+Michaelis+remembered:+%22The+Turks+were+commanded+by+an+aged+brigadier+who+had+been+a+division+commander+at+Gallipoli+in+1916+fighting+the+British!+He+was+highly+respected,+high+up+in+the+Turkish+military+establishment,+and+took+a+bust+to+brigadier+to+command+the+brigade.+The+average+Turk+soldier+in+the+brigade+came+from+the+steppe+country+of+Turkey,+near+Russia,+had+probably+had+only+three+or+four+years+of+school,+was+uprooted,+moved+to+western+Turkey,+given+a+uniform,+%5Ba%5D+rifle,+and+a+little+smattering+of+training,+stuck+on+a+ship,+sailed+ten+thousand+miles,+then+dumped+off+on+a+peninsula+–+‘Korea,+where’s+that?’+–+and+told+the+enemy+was+up+there+someplace,+go+get+him!+The+Turk+soldier+scratches+his+head+and+says,+‘What’s+he+done+to+me?&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cwRSU4bGJMLhsATl54LoAw&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?ei=ygRSU-zoF7a-sQSCkoHYAQ&id=F-afAAAAMAAJ&dq=Mike+Michaelis+remembered%3A+%22The+Turks+were+commanded+by+an+aged+brigadier+who+had+been+a+division+commander+at+Gallipoli+in+1916+fighting+the+British%21+He+was+highly+respected%2C+high+up+in+the+Turkish+military+establishment%2C+and+took+a+bust+to+brigadier+to+command+the+brigade.+The+average+Turk+soldier+in+the+brigade+came+from+the+steppe+country+of+Turkey%2C+near+Russia%2C+had+probably+had+only+three+or+four+years+of+school%2C+was+uprooted%2C+moved+to+western+Turkey%2C+given+a+uniform%2C+%5Ba%5D+rifle%2C+and+a+little+smattering+of+training%2C+stuck+on+a+ship%2C+sailed+ten+thousand+miles%2C+then+dumped+off+on+a+peninsula+–+‘Korea%2C+where’s+that%3F’+–+and+told+the+enemy+was+up+there+someplace%2C+go+get+him%21+The+Turk+soldier+scratches+his+head+and+says%2C+‘What’s+he+done+to+me%3F&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=smattering

Page 452

http://books.google.com/books?id=F-afAAAAMAAJ&q=Like+the+war+correspondents,+Coulter+apparently+was+mesmerized+by+the+Turks+and+continued+to+regard+them+as+superhuman+fighters+rather+than+the+poorly+led+green+troops+that+they+were.+Coulter’s+misplaced+confidence+in+the+Turks+led+to+disastrous+consequences&dq=Like+the+war+correspondents,+Coulter+apparently+was+mesmerized+by+the+Turks+and+continued+to+regard+them+as+superhuman+fighters+rather+than+the+poorly+led+green+troops+that+they+were.+Coulter’s+misplaced+confidence+in+the+Turks+led+to+disastrous+consequences&hl=en&sa=X&ei=s8BRU7GOCK3LsQSJmYKACg&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?ei=s8BRU7GOCK3LsQSJmYKACg&id=F-afAAAAMAAJ&dq=Like+the+war+correspondents%2C+Coulter+apparently+was+mesmerized+by+the+Turks+and+continued+to+regard+them+as+superhuman+fighters+rather+than+the+poorly+led+green+troops+that+they+were.+Coulter’s+misplaced+confidence+in+the+Turks+led+to+disastrous+consequences&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=poorly+green+troops+misplaced+confidence

Page 455

http://books.google.com/books?id=F-afAAAAMAAJ&q=Later+a+heroic+legend+would+circulate+that+they+bayoneted+200+CCF+troops+to+death.+But+the+truth+was+that+these+overrated,+poorly+led+green+troops+broke+and+bugged+out,+again+leaving+the+entire+right+flank+of+Eighth+Army+exposed.+The+Turks+took+a+%22look+at+the+situation,%22+Paul+Freeman+remembered,+%22and+they+had+no+stomach+for+it,+and+they+were+running+in+all+directions.&dq=Later+a+heroic+legend+would+circulate+that+they+bayoneted+200+CCF+troops+to+death.+But+the+truth+was+that+these+overrated,+poorly+led+green+troops+broke+and+bugged+out,+again+leaving+the+entire+right+flank+of+Eighth+Army+exposed.+The+Turks+took+a+%22look+at+the+situation,%22+Paul+Freeman+remembered,+%22and+they+had+no+stomach+for+it,+and+they+were+running+in+all+directions.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4MVRU_CHE7LhsATagoCQDw&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA

http://books.google.com/books?ei=4MVRU_CHE7LhsATagoCQDw&id=F-afAAAAMAAJ&dq=Later+a+heroic+legend+would+circulate+that+they+bayoneted+200+CCF+troops+to+death.+But+the+truth+was+that+these+overrated%2C+poorly+led+green+troops+broke+and+bugged+out%2C+again+leaving+the+entire+right+flank+of+Eighth+Army+exposed.+The+Turks+took+a+%22look+at+the+situation%2C%22+Paul+Freeman+remembered%2C+%22and+they+had+no+stomach+for+it%2C+and+they+were+running+in+all+directions.&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=bugged+out+leaving+entire+right+flank+exposed+no+stomach+running+directions

Rajmaan (talk) 05:09, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/articles/turks-korea-creating-myth-part-1.html

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/articles/turks-korea-creating-myth-part-2.html

fr:Raymond Cartier

HISTOIRE MONDIALE DE L APRES GUERRE 1945 - 1953 ----

Paris Match

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/histoire-mondiale-de-l-apres-guerre-1945-1953/author/raymond-cartier/page-1/

http://www.worldcat.org/title/histoire-mondiale-de-lapres-guerre-1-1945-1953/oclc/489707840

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/apres-guerre/author/cartier/sortby/3/page-1/

http://www.worldcat.org/title/histoire-mondiale-de-lapres-guerre/oclc/635639404

http://www.amazon.com/Histoire-mondiale-laprès-premier-1945-1953/dp/B005JDF7OW

http://www.amazon.ca/Histoire-mondiale-laprès-premier-1945-1953/dp/B005JDF7OW

http://oic.uqam.ca/en/remix/looking-at-me-by-looking-at-you-imagining-french-gender-roles-through-paris-matchs-everyday