Talk:Twelver

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Nice Article[edit]

Nice Article, lots of good information. As a history major a lot of this I already knew but there were a couple interesting bits of new knowledge that seem legitimate. I'd like there to be more sourcing though —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.82.227.246 (talk) 17:08, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Image[edit]

The picture shown in the article is not a depiction of an Imam but the depiction of Prophet Muhammad:

Pictures of the prophet are quite common in Iran and other Shia communities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.141.39 (talk) 06:52, 19 December 2007

More explanations on variations please:)[edit]

I don't know much about the Shiah sect of Islam and would like to know more about it. But I see a contradiction in this article. Under the headline 'Theology', the article states:

Branches of Religion (Furū al-Dīn)

* Salat (Prayer) — meaning "connection", establish the five daily prayers, called namāz in Persian and Urdu * Sawm (fast) — fasting during the holy month of Ramadhan, called rūzeh in Persian * Zakat (Poor-rate) – charity. Zakat means "to purify". * Khums ("Fifth" of one's savings) – tax * Hajj (Pilgrimage) – performing the pilgrimage to Mecca. * Jihād (Struggle) – struggling to please God. The greater, internal Jihad is the struggle against the evil within one's soul in every aspect of life, called jihād akbār. The lesser, or external, jihad is the struggle against the evil of one's environment in every aspect of life, called jihād asghār. This is not to be mistaken with the common modern misconception that this means "Holy War". Writing the truth (jihād bil qalam "struggle of the pen") and speaking truth in front of an oppressor are also forms of jihād. * ˤAmr bil-Maˤrūf – commanding what is good * An-Nahy ˤana l-Munkar – forbidding what is evil * Tawalla – loving the Ahlu l-Bayt] and their followers * Tabarra – dissociating oneself from the enemies of the Ahlu l-Bayt

This article then later goes further into explaining the raka'ah units of the five obligatory daily prayer of the Twelvers (2, 4, 4, 3, 4). However, as I remembered, the article on the subgroup 'Alevi' stated under the headline 'Relations with other Muslims groups':

The relationship between Alevis and Sunnis is one of mutual suspicion and prejudice dating back to the Ottoman period. Sunnis have accused Alevis of heresy, heterodoxy, rebellion, betrayal and immorality. Alevis, on the other hand, have argued that the original Quran does not demand five prayers, nor mosque attendance, nor pilgrimage, and that the Sunnis distorted early Islam by omitting, misinterpreting, or changing important passages of the original Quran, especially those dealing with Ali and ritual practice.

I don't understand... When it said that Twelvers practice the five obligatory daily prayers, which of the ten groups of Twelvers does it mean? Usuli, Akhbari, Shaykhi, Nimatullahi, Safaviya, Qizilbash, Alevism, Alawism, Bektashi, Tabarie? Or is Alevism the only one group that does not adhere to the practice of five daily obligatory prayers or are there some others? How about it if we explain all non-mainstream variations right after the mainstream explanation, that way we won't have contradictions among the articles. And if there are too many variations within the groups, then the topic should be left to the articles on each particular group. I'm just trying to investigate on the practices/rituals of all Muslims including the non-mainstream sects/subsects. So please, if someone could explain to me if there are other groups within Twelver other than the Alevis who do not adhere to the five obligatory, daily prayers. I'm so sorry I sound like a person who started to complain out of nowhere. Maybe this is what the author is already doing, or maybe I'm mistaken. Thank you so much to the people who wrote this very helpful article.Senantiasa (talk) 16:57, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Twelver Controversy?[edit]

Last time I checked, the Twelvers were a radical sect of Islam that believed that it was their duty to rush the end of times upon the world so that the Twelfth Imam(or Thirteenth, please correct me if I'm wrong) would come forth and save them. Yet there is nothing in the article that even remotely indicates this belief, what's the deal? I know that Mahmoud Ahmedinejad believes this, but there should be clarification on this, is it a core Twelver belief? So, controversy segment is a needed addition. Hyblackeagle22 (talk) 14:29, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hyblackeagle22, I don't know where did you get this specific idea about 'Twelvers'. But its not true to a very great extent. Yes, Twelvers believe that at end of times Mahdi (The Guided One) will come and free world from atrocities of Dajjal (Anti-Christ) and Fill earth with justice and peace as it would have been filled with tyranny & war, and this believe is not specific to Twelvers as it is generic Islamic believe; Twelvers only put great weight and emphasis on it. Same concept is found in all major religions e.g. Christianity (Return of Christ), Judaism (the concept of Messiah), Hinduism (the Kalki awatar), etc. As I myself am a Muslim adherent of Shia-Twelver school, I know that we have been told that, its duty of each and every true person & follwer to assist Mahdi in his mission, but this can't be possible until Mahdi Himself shows up, ending the period of Occulation. I have never been told that its my duty to rush the end of times upon the world so that the Twelfth Imam would come forth and save us. I have been told & read that this is the event for which no one (not even Mahdi Himself) except Almighty God knows that when will it exactly occur. Although there are strings of prophesies which give insifht to event preceeding appearence of Mahdi but there is an attached disclaimer to them that these events (except 4 fixed signs) could be suspended or elongated as per God's wish. Hope I have cleared few of your doubts :) and created few more ;) feel free to respond/comment/ask. --Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haidertcs 05:59, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Lists of names[edit]

Lists of names in this article should be sourced in accordance with WP:BLP. As there is no way of constantly maintaining linked articles, this applies to names which have a Wikipedia article as well as those that do not. Any name listed with no verifiable citations should be removed. Refer to WP:NLIST for guidance. (talk) 09:25, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

source?[edit]

the following claim most likely cannot be sourced and should be removed "the term Shi'a Muslim as commonly used in English usually refers to Twelver Shī‘a Muslims only."

exactly how does one know whether the source which uses the word Shi'a is actually only referring to Twelvers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.84.68.252 (talk) 06:18, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Main doctrines section poorly translated[edit]

There seems to be inconsistency and lack of clarity in the main doctrines section. Under "Principles of Faith," each principle, named in what I believe is Arabic, is translated in parentheses to a single English phrase as its literal translation, followed by a brief, more in depth explanation of the meaning of that principle.

Under "Ancillaries of the Faith," Zakat is translated as "poor-rate." This does not make any sense in literal English, and especially does not make sense in light of the brief explanation. I hope someone with sources, and a better knowledge of Islam and Arabic, will please fix this.

Moreover, "Commanding what is just." and "Forbidding what is evil." are inconconsistently presented: they should be given with the original Arabic term, followed by a single phrase of translation (which is what is already there), followed by a brief explanation.

Finally, Tawalla and Tabarra should have immediate English phrase translations, again for consistency.

I have made some other, quite small, edits, but these I decided only to call attention to, hesitant as I am to make any changes or additions when I am relatively uneducated in the language and religion.

67.187.123.80 (talk) 14:22, 9 January 2014 (UTC)