Talk:Umayyad Mosque

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edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Umayyad Mosque:

Here are some tasks you can do:
  • Cleanup: "Religious significance" section, Alt text for images
  • Expand:
    • "Ottoman era" subsection, particularly 17th-century, 18th-century and to an extent 19th-century.
    • "Modern history" subsection
    • Information on mosque architecture. Particularly interior layout and decor, mosaics (interior and exterior), domes, gates, and free-standing structures within mosque complex. Preferably, each of the aforementioned should have their own subsection.
    • Other:
    • Creation of comprehensive subsection on pre-Islamic history of mosque when it was a Roman temple and Byzantine cathedral.
    • Complete revamp and expansion of "Religious significance" section with reliable sources. Create separate subsections for different religions or religious sects where appropriate (i.e. Islam: Sunni and Shia, Christianity)
    • New section on "Social significance" (i.e. its role throughout history to the present day as a cultural symbol, social and governmental platform, communal center, etc.)

Ummayad mosque in Damascus is not damaged due to the civil war[edit]

It's the Ummayad mosque in Aleppo that has been damaged, it even says so in the reference you attached to it. So please don't change it back when I'm now deleting that info. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.189.71.171 (talk) 16:47, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Not the third most important mosque to muslims![edit]

here is a reference for a saying of the prophet muhammed sas: Chapter 91: DO NOT UNDERTAKE JOURNEY (PURELY FOR VISIT TO THE SACRED PLACES) BUT TO THREE MOSQUES

  • Book 007, Number 3218:

Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported it directly from Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) that he said: Do not undertake journey but to three mosques: this mosque of mine, the Mosque of al-Haram and the Mosque of Aqsa (Bait al-Maqdis).

  • Book 007, Number 3219:

This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Zuhri (but with this change of words) that he (Allah's Apostle) said:" Undertake journey to three mosques.

  • Book 007, Number 3220:

Abu Haraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him) as saying: One should undertake journey to three mosques: the mosque of the Ka'ba, my mosque, and the mosque of Elia (Bait al-Maqdis).

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/007.smt.html#007.3218 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.143.78.2 (talk) 19:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC).

Demolition the church[edit]

It should be mentioned that the church was bought by the Caliph or rather there was sort of a deal of exchange of states. The site of the chruch being in the centre of the old city made so important for the muslim to build there mosque there, since the city was the capital of their kingdom. Demolishing mosques, churches, synagouges, or any building that Allah's (GOD's) name is mention in for worship is not to be destroyed according to the Quraan.

Article from a Shia perspective[edit]

I was amazed that when the article mentioned places of religious significance in the mosque, it was all from a Shia perspective. NO mention of the minaret of Jesus (peace be upon him) and the head of Yahya (John the Baptist, pbuh) in that section? 78.154.239.97 (talk) 15:33, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

TODO list[edit]

This is a proposal for a TODO list, in the GA collaboration for the Umayyad Mosque:

  • Rewrite the History section:
    • A short ancient history subsection that redirects to Temple of Jupiter, Damascus, and maybe a fork article about the Cathedral.
    • Subsections for Umayyad (Construction), Abbasid, Ayyubid, Mamluk, Ottoman, Modern eras.
  • Rewrite the Architecture section:
    • Description of the layout, material, architectural themes.
    • Subsections for important parts of the mosque (Qubbat al-Khazna?, Al-Arous Minaret?)
    • Subsection for the many renovations it went through
  • Legacy section:
    • Religious importance, different subsections for different religions and sects (Shia, Sunni, Christian.. etc.)
  • Location- small section describing specific location of the mosque in Damascus-neighborhood, street, adjacent notable structures or places.

Feel free to add/expand. Yazan (talk) 12:29, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Referencing[edit]

How do we place references for quotations in secondary sources. For example when the reference is Le Strange's quotes of Ibn al-Faqih, the citation is just to the page in le Strange's book? Yazan (talk) 11:34, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

It is acceptable and desirable to get your quotations from a secondary source.You could look for collaboration from another source if you feel it is necessary. WP:RS#Quotations --Diannaa (Talk) 19:19, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Copy edits[edit]

I am going to make a sub-page for the copy edits so that Yazan and any other interested editors can follow along with what I am doing and why. The location is Talk:Umayyad Mosque/Copy edits --Diannaa (Talk) 19:19, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Section headings[edit]

I suggest we merge the Umayyad, Abbasid and Fatimid info (roughly four passages combined until later expansion) into one subsection called "Islamic Arab era" or "Arab Caliphate era" and then have the next subsection titled "Seljuk and Ayyubid rule (or era)" and have another subsection for Mamluk rule. It appears there's a lot of info on the Mamluk era in the sources you provided so I think a section on that period could stand alone. What do you think? --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:13, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that makes sense. Also, check this one, [1]. Yazan (talk) 05:23, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
I'll make the changes now. Upon a mere scan, the source look very informative and could help us out greatly with the religious significance section. The timeline will also be useful and as well as the info on the mosque's architecture. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:31, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Just some info from Necipoglu Important info to add[edit]

All of the info is provided on page 72 of Gulru Necipoglu's Muqarnas: An Annual on the Visual Culture of the Islamic World, Volume 14. Most of it renders use in the religious significance section.

  • "The sanctity of the mosque derives largely from its association with the Islamic conquest of Syria"
  • According to 8th century traditionist Sufyan al-Thauri, the value of one prayer in the Umayyad Mosque is worth 30,000 prayers.
  • The Damascus Mosque traditionally ranks fourth in sacredness. Mecca is first, Medina second and Aqsa is third.
  • Other traditional Muslim sources claim worship will continue in the Umayyad Mosque for 40 years after Earth's destruction.
  • It is universally acknowledged in Islamic sources that the mosque is one of the wonders of the world.
  • Several medieval authors count it as two wonders of the world: the mosque itself and its mosaics.

--Al Ameer son (talk) 23:59, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

More useful information:

  • "The structure is rectangular, with a large courtyard occupying most of the area within the walls. The prayer halls were once decorated with marble panels of gold, colored glass, and mother-of-pearl, and retain some elements of this rich ornamentation." - Illustrated Dictionary of the Muslim World By Marshall Cavendish

--Al Ameer son (talk) 04:55, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Social significance section?[edit]

Any thoughts on that? I think having a section on this would be useful since in almost every source I use the author stresses its social significance. I think we would have a lot of information available for it. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:58, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Certainly, take this quote from, Walker, Bethany J. (Mar., 2004). "Commemorating the Sacred Spaces of the Past: The Mamluks and the Umayyad Mosque at Damascus". Near Eastern Archaeology (The American Schools of Oriental Research) 67 (1):

In a recently published eyewitness account of the fire of 1479, most of the money and efforts for reconstructing the mosque came from Damascenes themselves (Behrens-Abouseif 2004). What emerged from this tragic event was proof of a civic consciousness, illustrating how much the identity of Damascus was tied to this mosque. While it remained an important monument for all Muslims, it was, however, no longer a financial priority for the state. Moreover, its image among civilians had been transformed. The largest part of the brilliant mosaics, which had captured the imagination of earlier generations of Muslims, had either been destroyed or had been previously plastered over and, according to Behrens-Abouseif, "no longer characterized the image of the mosque in the mind of the Damascene population" (Behrens-Abouseif 2004: 283). Thus, the political and aesthetic memory of this monument had changed from one of state power to one of local pride. While the Ummayad mosque continued, for medieval Muslims, to be one of the wonders of the world, this was the case for different aesthetic and social reasons than for earlier generations.

Btw, I should get my hands on that Behrens-Abouseif paper from 2004, in a week or so. I couldn't find it anywhere, so I emailed the prof. and she promised to mail it promptly. I suspect it would have a wealth of information about the fire/aftermath/ and some on the mosque's state before. Yazan (talk) 09:51, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Sounds great. I didn't even know there was a fire in 1479–seems like they were regular occurrences back then. I found some useful info regarding its social significance during Ottoman and French colonial times. I'll list that info here within an hour (or two) for near-future reference. --Al Ameer son (talk) 17:59, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Architecture[edit]

This mosque looks surprisingly european in style,- though syrian is the clossest arab country to europe.--J intela (talk) 03:44, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

File:Ummayid Mosque-Map.GIF Nominated for Deletion[edit]

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Previous temple - recent edit[edit]

I've just reverted an edit by User:Rarevogel who changed Semitic-Canaanites to Syro-Levantine with no explanation and added, without a source, a comparison with a temple in Tyre. The actual source for the statement before what appears to be a pov change says "We have no direct knowledge of what the temple of Hadad-Ramman looked like. It probably followed the traditional form, comparable in plan to other Scmitic-Canaanite sites like the Jerusalem temple." Dougweller (talk) 08:02, 29 June 2014 (UTC)