Talk:United Kingdom

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Former good article United Kingdom was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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Ethnic groups section and GA[edit]

I don't have time to read the whole article and contribute to the GA review, but I wanted to mention some issues with the ethnic groups section, since that's something I have some expertise on. Firstly, I'm not sure if starting the section with a table rather than text is a good idea presentationally. Second, most scholars of ethnicity don't recognise the "ethnic group" categories used in the British census as reflecting their understanding of what constitute ethnic groups. The census categories mix race and ethnicity. Perhaps this could briefly be noted? I've recently added some material on this to the Classification of ethnicity in the United Kingdom article, which could be borrowed for this purpose. Then there's the issue that the labels in the table don't match those of the source. For example, "Gypsy/Traveller/Irish Traveller" in the source has become "White: Irish Traveller" in the table. Finally, the sentence "In 2011, 86% of the population identified themselves as White, meaning 12.9% of the UK population identify themselves as of mixed ethnic minority" doesn't match the figures in table. The word "meaning" is also misused, because the second part of the sentence isn't a consequence of the first. I don't know what "of mixed ethnic minority" means. I presume it should read "of an ethnic minority"? Cordless Larry (talk) 16:48, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Ouch - and there's more. "The fastest-growing group was the mixed-ethnicity population, which doubled from 672,000 in 2001 to 986,600 in 2009."(!) contradicts the source "The fastest growing ethnic minority group, in percentage terms, was Chinese, which jumped from 233,000 to 451,000 over the period." We're comparing the 2001 census with 2005 and 2009 estimates rather than the 2011 census (an estimate too, of course, but at least a more recent one and largely comparable with the 2001 census). Some text assumes that "White" means "British White", whereas (at least in the census's terms) it includes ethnic minorities. I think that last phrasing you queried, "of mixed ethnic minority" may be a scrambling of something like "of one or more of a variety of ethnic minorities" (not the first time someone's misunderstood what the census meant by "mixed"). Much to do. NebY (talk) 17:23, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I didn't mention that most of the text from "Ethnic diversity varies significantly across the UK..." could probably be replaced by more recent data. Also, "In 1950 there were probably fewer than 20,000 non-white residents in Britain, almost all born overseas" could do with more than one source. I actually suspect that there might be a variety of estimates for that figure. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:37, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
I also forgot "Migration from new EU member states in Central and Eastern Europe since 2004 has resulted in growth in these population groups but, as of 2008, the trend is reversing". 2008 is seven years ago! Cordless Larry (talk) 20:39, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Arguably the section should also mention the history of British Jews. It discusses historical migration of other groups to the UK, but there is no mention of this very well established ethnic/religious group. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:06, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I have now started to deal with some of these issues. Help would be appreciated. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:52, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I've started to work through the article. The "Climate" section ought be sourceable from the Met Office reports - I would assume they're the best source to use. In terms of missing content, I don't want to add too much more as the article's quite large as it is. One thing I think is missing is Queen Victoria - the Victorian era has a passing mention but there is no explicit coverage of Britain's longest reigning monarch who saw the rise of the British Empire spread over the globe and whose influence on British culture is recognised over 110 years after her death ... so she needs to go in. In terms of ethnic minorities, I think Italians might be worth a mention, as there have been communities in London (the mod movement took their fashion cues from the Italian community), Glasgow (eg: Armando Iannucci) and elsewhere (eg: vandalism of Italian restaurants at the start of the Second World War after Italy joined the Axis). Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:04, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

The ethnic groups section currently starts with a discussion of a few genetic studies. This (link to full study in the references, for those with access) was in the news today. I'm no expert on genetics (and given that ethnicity is at least partly subjective and social, not genetically determined, it's perhaps not relevant), but does this change what we should say in the article? Cordless Larry (talk) 22:58, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

I saw that as well on the BBC News app. It should be in the article as it is on about the genetic diversity in the UK which is not what many thought it would have been. It also shows that certain genetic groupings reflect certain areas which can form the basis of an ethnic grouping. Mabuska (talk) 14:33, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
I think I agree, although we need to consider the wording carefully so as not to suggest that ethnicity is determined solely by genetics (note that the study doesn't actually make reference to ethnicity). There was a good feature on this with the lead author on last night's Inside Science on BBC Radio 4, which you can listen to here. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:20, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

See Talk:Genetic history of the British Isles#Leslie, S. et al. Nature. It has been suggested that any changes to articles that this paper affects starts with Genetic history of the British Isles and that those changes if any are then reflected in other less detailed articles. -- PBS (talk) 12:21, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

That was my suggestion, so I agree (!). There's another discussion of Leslie at the bottom of Talk:Celts#Definition_of_Celts_at_start_of_article this section at Talk:Celts. Johnbod (talk) 13:53, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Sounds like a good plan, PBS and Johnbod. I'll post something there later. Cordless Larry (talk) 13:54, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Discussion on this seems to have stalled on that page. It would be good to make some progress. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:40, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Provisional Government of Southern Ireland[edit]

A discussion about moving this article to Provisional Government of the Irish Free State was started. Very limited participation so far and more input would be appreciated. Frenchmalawi (talk) 23:02, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Southern Ireland (1921-1922) - unwieldy new title for former UK country[edit]

Are UK page editors aware that the title page for the above former UK country has been changed from plain old "Southern Ireland" which it was for years. "Southern Ireland" is now a dab page as if that was needed. To properly reference this former UK country now, you will have to type "Southern Ireland (1921-1922)|Southern Ireland". Am I the only one who thinks this is nuts? I've re-opened the discussion on the Talk:Southern Ireland (1921–22) if editors wish to contribute. Frenchmalawi (talk) 00:26, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

English is NOT Official[edit]

The United Kingdom, like the United States, does not have an official language. It has only a national language. Notwithstanding English is the common language of the British government, certain actions must still performed in the Norman language in order for them to be official - as when the Queen gives rubber stamp approval to an act of Parliament with the words, "La Reine le Veult." She doesn't do that for fun; she does it because it's required. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 17:08, 12 April 2015‎ (UTC)

yes, this needs changing — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:02, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
The article states that "The UK's de facto official language is English". The key term here is de facto; the article's not saying that English is the official language according to law. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:20, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Moving Southern Ireland (1921-1922) back to its original title[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Southern Ireland (1921-1922) should be moved back to "Southern Ireland" as it was for years. You can contribute to the discussion at Talk:Southern Ireland (1921–22).Frenchmalawi (talk) 17:31, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Sovereign state[edit]

The very first claim in the article is inaccurate. The United Kingdom is not a sovereign state it is part of the European Union and the parliament of England can be overruled legally by the larger union. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 16:03, 15 April 2015

All sovereign states enter into treaties that affect domestic law. The UK remains sovereign because its parliament may stop the enforcement of EU "laws", or withdraw from the EU altogether. Nor does the EU have any means of enforcing its laws, that is left to each member nation. TFD (talk) 16:20, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

England as name for the country[edit]

Though England would certainly not be the right term for the UK, it still has been the most used name in the country's history. I think in the initial description a "sometimes only referred as England" should be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Weltarchiv (talkcontribs) 19:07, 15 April 2015‎ (UTC)

Please sign your posts, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 20:01, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
It certainly is not the most used name in the country's history that would probably be Great Britain (which tends to be used in a geographic sense now but was once widely used particulary in the Victorian era for the name of the country), England is normally only used by non-Brits who dont understand the difference. So I dont think it needs to be in the lead. MilborneOne (talk) 20:01, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Agree with MilborneOne. A complete non-starter. -- Alarics (talk) 20:38, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 April 2015[edit] (talk) 15:08, 16 April 2015 (UTC) A separation required between Great and Britain currently as GreatBritain Top Right column

Pictogram voting question.svg Question: I cannot replicate this, where about in the column is the error? Jamietw (talk) 15:46, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
Note: I found no problem either. Daicaregos (talk) 15:55, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: No error that I can see. Searching for "greatbritain" in the article reveals no hits. Probably a browser issue on the requesting IP's end Cannolis (talk) 16:04, 16 April 2015 (UTC)


I missed out on the discussion where a consensus was apparently reached to include non-english versions of the UK's name, at the top of the infobox :( If they're going to remain, may I suggest they be made 'collapsable', so that the infobox isn't so elongated at the top & thus 'odd' looking? GoodDay (talk) 14:47, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Not sure how you are viewing it but it is collapsed. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:24, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Ok, somethin' wrong with my computer. I've just noticed the same problem at Elizabeth II, concerning the Commonwealth realms. GoodDay (talk) 15:37, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Problem solved. I've switched over to Google Crome :) GoodDay (talk) 15:41, 17 May 2015 (UTC)