United Kingdom was nominated as a good article in the category but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Reviewed version: March 6, 2015
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|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the United Kingdom article.|
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|edit||Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)|
A1: Reliable sources support the view that the United Kingdom is a single country. This view is shared with other major reputable encyclopedias. There has been a long-standing consensus to describe the UK in this way.
A2: See the article entitled "Terminology of the British Isles". Great Britain is the name of the largest island that the UK encompasses, and is not generally used in source material as the name of the country. Indeed, Britain 2001, the "official reference book" of the United Kingdom produced by the Office for National Statistics for "British diplomatic posts" says in its foreword:
This view is reiterated by the Prime Minister's Office, which states:
There has been a long-standing consensus not to include Great Britain in the lead as an interchangable name of the state.
A3: This is one of the most common questions raised on this talk page, but consistently, consensus goes against taking that approach. No major reputable source describes the UK in this way. However the history of the formation of the United Kingdom, supported by source material, highlights that England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are "countries within a country". Please also refer to Q4.
A4: This is the most frequent question raised by visitors to this talk page, and the issue which generates the most debate. However, as a result of a lack of a formal British constitution, and owing to a convoluted history of the formation of the United Kingdom, a variety of terms exist which are used to refer to England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Reliable and official sources support use of the word "countries":
On Wikipedia, the term has broadly won preference amongst the editing community (note, however, that a country is not the same as a sovereign state). Also commonplace is the phrase "constituent country, or countries", when referring to the countries as elements of the UK. This phrase, however, is not an actual term; ie Scotland is not a 'constituent country' in itself, but is one of the constituent countries of the UK. The community endeavours to achieve an atmosphere of neutrality and (for the sake of stability) compromise on the various UK naming issues. See also Countries of the United Kingdom for more details about the terms that have been used to describe England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales.
A5: Widespread confusion surrounds the use of the word "nation". In standard British English, and in academic language, a nation is a social group of two or more people, and not a division of land. This is also the approach taken in the nation article, and across Wikipedia (for example, the English people and the Québécois are described as "nations", reflecting real world practice). The term Home Nations is generally used only in sporting contexts. It is not used in any major reputable sources outside of sport, and is not the approach taken by any other encyclopedia.
A6: This view is supported by some sources, but the current consensus amongst the editing community is aligned to a greater body of work which describes both Northern Ireland and Wales as countries. However, the terms are not all mutually exclusive: a country can also be a principality or a province, and these terms are mentioned throughout Wikipedia as alternative names in afternotes.
A7: Northern Ireland has not had its own unique, government sanctioned flag since its government was prorogued in 1972, and abolished in 1973 under the Northern Ireland Constitution Act 1973. During official events, the British government uses the Union Flag — the flag of the United Kingdom — and this is the only flag used by the government in Northern Ireland. The consensus is to reflect this in the article with a note.
A8: Again, Wikipedia editors often disagree on the acceptability and suitability of various terms and phrases. This term is not favoured by a number of Wikipedia editors, and is currently not used in the introduction both to simplify the status quo, and also to discourage edit warring.
|United Kingdom has been listed as a level-3 vital article in Geography. If you can improve it, please do. This article has been rated as B-Class.|
|This subject is featured in the Outline of United Kingdom'Outline of the United Kingdom', which is incomplete and needs further development. That page, along with the other outlines on Wikipedia, is part of Wikipedia's Outline of Knowledge, which also serves as the table of contents or site map of Wikipedia.|
|United Kingdom was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.|
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|This article is written in British English (colour, realise, travelled, aeroplane), and some terms used in it are different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.|
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- 1 Ethnic groups section and GA
- 2 Provisional Government of Southern Ireland
- 3 Southern Ireland (1921-1922) - unwieldy new title for former UK country
- 4 English is NOT Official
- 5 Moving Southern Ireland (1921-1922) back to its original title
- 6 Sovereign state
- 7 England as name for the country
- 8 Semi-protected edit request on 16 April 2015
- 9 Infobox
Ethnic groups section and GA
I don't have time to read the whole article and contribute to the GA review, but I wanted to mention some issues with the ethnic groups section, since that's something I have some expertise on. Firstly, I'm not sure if starting the section with a table rather than text is a good idea presentationally. Second, most scholars of ethnicity don't recognise the "ethnic group" categories used in the British census as reflecting their understanding of what constitute ethnic groups. The census categories mix race and ethnicity. Perhaps this could briefly be noted? I've recently added some material on this to the Classification of ethnicity in the United Kingdom article, which could be borrowed for this purpose. Then there's the issue that the labels in the table don't match those of the source. For example, "Gypsy/Traveller/Irish Traveller" in the source has become "White: Irish Traveller" in the table. Finally, the sentence "In 2011, 86% of the population identified themselves as White, meaning 12.9% of the UK population identify themselves as of mixed ethnic minority" doesn't match the figures in table. The word "meaning" is also misused, because the second part of the sentence isn't a consequence of the first. I don't know what "of mixed ethnic minority" means. I presume it should read "of an ethnic minority"? Cordless Larry (talk) 16:48, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- Ouch - and there's more. "The fastest-growing group was the mixed-ethnicity population, which doubled from 672,000 in 2001 to 986,600 in 2009."(!) contradicts the source "The fastest growing ethnic minority group, in percentage terms, was Chinese, which jumped from 233,000 to 451,000 over the period." We're comparing the 2001 census with 2005 and 2009 estimates rather than the 2011 census (an estimate too, of course, but at least a more recent one and largely comparable with the 2001 census). Some text assumes that "White" means "British White", whereas (at least in the census's terms) it includes ethnic minorities. I think that last phrasing you queried, "of mixed ethnic minority" may be a scrambling of something like "of one or more of a variety of ethnic minorities" (not the first time someone's misunderstood what the census meant by "mixed"). Much to do. NebY (talk) 17:23, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, I didn't mention that most of the text from "Ethnic diversity varies significantly across the UK..." could probably be replaced by more recent data. Also, "In 1950 there were probably fewer than 20,000 non-white residents in Britain, almost all born overseas" could do with more than one source. I actually suspect that there might be a variety of estimates for that figure. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:37, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- I also forgot "Migration from new EU member states in Central and Eastern Europe since 2004 has resulted in growth in these population groups but, as of 2008, the trend is reversing". 2008 is seven years ago! Cordless Larry (talk) 20:39, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- Arguably the section should also mention the history of British Jews. It discusses historical migration of other groups to the UK, but there is no mention of this very well established ethnic/religious group. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:06, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- I've started to work through the article. The "Climate" section ought be sourceable from the Met Office reports - I would assume they're the best source to use. In terms of missing content, I don't want to add too much more as the article's quite large as it is. One thing I think is missing is Queen Victoria - the Victorian era has a passing mention but there is no explicit coverage of Britain's longest reigning monarch who saw the rise of the British Empire spread over the globe and whose influence on British culture is recognised over 110 years after her death ... so she needs to go in. In terms of ethnic minorities, I think Italians might be worth a mention, as there have been communities in London (the mod movement took their fashion cues from the Italian community), Glasgow (eg: Armando Iannucci) and elsewhere (eg: vandalism of Italian restaurants at the start of the Second World War after Italy joined the Axis). Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:04, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
The ethnic groups section currently starts with a discussion of a few genetic studies. This (link to full study in the references, for those with access) was in the news today. I'm no expert on genetics (and given that ethnicity is at least partly subjective and social, not genetically determined, it's perhaps not relevant), but does this change what we should say in the article? Cordless Larry (talk) 22:58, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
- I saw that as well on the BBC News app. It should be in the article as it is on about the genetic diversity in the UK which is not what many thought it would have been. It also shows that certain genetic groupings reflect certain areas which can form the basis of an ethnic grouping. Mabuska (talk) 14:33, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
- I think I agree, although we need to consider the wording carefully so as not to suggest that ethnicity is determined solely by genetics (note that the study doesn't actually make reference to ethnicity). There was a good feature on this with the lead author on last night's Inside Science on BBC Radio 4, which you can listen to here. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:20, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
See Talk:Genetic history of the British Isles#Leslie, S. et al. Nature. It has been suggested that any changes to articles that this paper affects starts with Genetic history of the British Isles and that those changes if any are then reflected in other less detailed articles. -- PBS (talk) 12:21, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
- That was my suggestion, so I agree (!). There's another discussion of Leslie at the bottom of Talk:Celts#Definition_of_Celts_at_start_of_article this section at Talk:Celts. Johnbod (talk) 13:53, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
- Sounds like a good plan, PBS and Johnbod. I'll post something there later. Cordless Larry (talk) 13:54, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
A discussion about moving this article to Provisional Government of the Irish Free State was started. Very limited participation so far and more input would be appreciated. Frenchmalawi (talk) 23:02, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Southern Ireland (1921-1922) - unwieldy new title for former UK country
Are UK page editors aware that the title page for the above former UK country has been changed from plain old "Southern Ireland" which it was for years. "Southern Ireland" is now a dab page as if that was needed. To properly reference this former UK country now, you will have to type "Southern Ireland (1921-1922)|Southern Ireland". Am I the only one who thinks this is nuts? I've re-opened the discussion on the Talk:Southern Ireland (1921–22) if editors wish to contribute. Frenchmalawi (talk) 00:26, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
English is NOT Official
The United Kingdom, like the United States, does not have an official language. It has only a national language. Notwithstanding English is the common language of the British government, certain actions must still performed in the Norman language in order for them to be official - as when the Queen gives rubber stamp approval to an act of Parliament with the words, "La Reine le Veult." She doesn't do that for fun; she does it because it's required. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk • contribs) 17:08, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
- yes, this needs changing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 16:02, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Moving Southern Ireland (1921-1922) back to its original title
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Southern Ireland (1921-1922) should be moved back to "Southern Ireland" as it was for years. You can contribute to the discussion at Talk:Southern Ireland (1921–22).Frenchmalawi (talk) 17:31, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
The very first claim in the article is inaccurate. The United Kingdom is not a sovereign state it is part of the European Union and the parliament of England can be overruled legally by the larger union. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_%28European_Union_law%29 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk • contribs) 16:03, 15 April 2015
- All sovereign states enter into treaties that affect domestic law. The UK remains sovereign because its parliament may stop the enforcement of EU "laws", or withdraw from the EU altogether. Nor does the EU have any means of enforcing its laws, that is left to each member nation. TFD (talk) 16:20, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
England as name for the country
Though England would certainly not be the right term for the UK, it still has been the most used name in the country's history. I think in the initial description a "sometimes only referred as England" should be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Weltarchiv (talk • contribs) 19:07, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
- It certainly is not the most used name in the country's history that would probably be Great Britain (which tends to be used in a geographic sense now but was once widely used particulary in the Victorian era for the name of the country), England is normally only used by non-Brits who dont understand the difference. So I dont think it needs to be in the lead. MilborneOne (talk) 20:01, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 16 April 2015
|This edit request has been answered. Set the
- Question: I cannot replicate this, where about in the column is the error? Jamietw (talk) 15:46, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
- Note: I found no problem either. Daicaregos (talk) 15:55, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
- Not done: No error that I can see. Searching for "greatbritain" in the article reveals no hits. Probably a browser issue on the requesting IP's end Cannolis (talk) 16:04, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
I missed out on the discussion where a consensus was apparently reached to include non-english versions of the UK's name, at the top of the infobox :( If they're going to remain, may I suggest they be made 'collapsable', so that the infobox isn't so elongated at the top & thus 'odd' looking? GoodDay (talk) 14:47, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
- Not sure how you are viewing it but it is collapsed. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:24, 17 May 2015 (UTC)