Talk:United States Bill of Rights

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Former featured article United States Bill of Rights is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
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Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2013[edit]

please change "The Third Amendment restricts the quartering of soldiers in private homes, in response to Quartering Acts passed by the British parliament during the Revolutionary War. The amendment is one of the least controversial of the Constitution, and, as of 2009, has never been the primary basis of a Supreme Court decision." to The Third Amendment restricts the quartering of soldiers in private homes, in response to Quartering Acts passed by the British parliament during the Revolutionary War. The amendment is one of the least controversial of the Constitution, and, as of 2013, has never been the primary basis of a Supreme Court decision." because the current version is four years out of date 174.16.2.236 (talk) 13:50, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The source currently referenced in the article is dated 2009, so that's what the article says. Changing it without a reliable source to back it up would be considered original research. --ElHef (Meep?) 14:39, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
I found a source and updated to since 2012.Tomsv 98 (talk) 17:06, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Unsupported Assumption Present[edit]

In the section titled "Ratification Process" there is the text, "Virginia initially postponed its debate, but after Vermont was admitted to the Union in 1791, the total number of states needed for ratification rose to eleven." This statement is unsupported by reference to law or other reasoning. It contains within it assumptions that 1. The number of states necessary for a ratification increases after new states are admitted to the Union. and. 2. The ratification votes of newly-admitted states (states admitted subsequent to the U.S. Congress' 2/3's ratification vote, and thus were never part of that vote) are counted in favor of the amendment's ratification. If these assumptions are true, they should be documented. Frysay (talk) 06:55, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Ninth Amendment[edit]

The section on the ninth amendment ends: "between 1992 and 2000, the Court did not refer to the amendment a single time."

That was from a 2000 source, so at the time it was written it was interesting because it implied, "It hasn't been referenced since 1992." There have been more years since 2000 than there were between 1992 and 2000, so today it just feels like an arbitrary date range. Can that be extended, eg "between 1992 and 2012" or can a later reference be added? Thefifthsetpin (talk) 19:47, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

@Thefifthsetpin: Thanks for pointing this issue out.

Not only is that clause out of date, but in fact, the whole sentence is inaccurate. While the Supreme Court did cite the privacy & Roe v. Wade in in its 1992 Planned Parenthood v. Casey ruling, the Court did not use, nor did any justice cite the Ninth Amendment to strike down part of Pennsylvania's abortion pre-notification law. "The high-water mark" for the use of the right to privacy perhaps, but not the HWMfor the use of the Ninth Amendment. For this reason I've removed the sentence and its citation. Drdpw (talk) 00:45, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Drdpw (talk) 15:57, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

George Mason template addition[edit]

George Mason has been called the Father of the Bill of Rights by scholars (see his page for references), the co-father of the Bill of Rights by those who want to split the difference, and was the man who thought up most of it, stood up for its inclusion, and convinced - or probably more accurately, made a deal with - James Madison to support the concept after Madison adamantly and vocally opposed it. Does his template belong on the page? I think so, and it makes no sense to me not to include it, but then I think The Newsroom is the best thing since sliced bread (and who thought that milestone up?) and so am partial to giving credit to those who deserve it. Mason is one of the most important whothat?s in American history, pretty much unknown and unsung, but he did have a major hand in making sure the Bill of Rights happened and happened on his watch. So he only has one high school named after him, and a small statue out-back of Jefferson's. Not to mention an 18-cent stamp and a university. On a scale of one-to-ten, they should have made room for him on Rushmore. Randy Kryn 3:44 1 December, 2014 (UTC)

I have removed the template (see edit summaries for rationale). Please leave it out unless a consensus is reached to include it. Drdpw (talk) 15:57, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Since you removed it again, please explain why if you have a few minutes. I just don't see it. How is it inappropriate to have George Mason's template as a template on the page? If it's because he wasn't actually in the room writing with James Madison, or was an elected representative who voted on it, that's like taking the tip of the iceberg and calling it gigantic. George Mason wrote the document that predated the Bill of Rights, was the main person advocating a Bill of Rights, and convinced people like James Madison of the need for the inclusion of a national agreement on the rights of Americans right in the Constitution of the country. Many people call George Mason the Father of the Bill of Rights (personally I'd say co-father with Madison), and his influence on the document is universally accepted (unless I'm mistaken). So on the single question of should the George Mason template be on the "United States Bill of Rights" page I really (honestly) can't think of a reason why it shouldn't. That's my go at it for now, I'll leave it to others to further the discussion and come back to it if need be. Let me say to anyone reading this that Drdpw has done so much excellent work on early American documents, history, and related Wikipedia pages that his or her opinion on this matter is important, and I hope to reach a consensus on this question. I guess I'm a Mason fanboy, even more so as I've learned more about him over the years, but in trying to look at this question from a neutral viewpoint I still can't see a reason to remove the template. Thanks for a fine discussion, it's always nice to talk about America's founders. Randy Kryn 16:27 1 December, 2014 (UTC)
I would leave out this template. The importance of the Bill of Rights transcends the contribution of any one person involved in its particulars, and the article is long enough without adding tertiary material. bd2412 T 16:33, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
According to this good faith logic the templates of individuals would be left off of every page of significant historical importance. On this page, if your suggestion is merited, then the James Madison template should be removed as well (I'd reverse that edit). No other reasons for removing the George Mason template have been put forward. An additional point in the logic that Mason did not write or pass the U.S. Bill of Rights - Mason, credited with being the "Father" or "Co-Father" of the Bill, was not an elected official, so he could not have written the Bill's provisions or put them up for a vote. That was left to Madison, a former opponent of the idea, who was in Congress at the time and who worked to incorporate Mason's ideas into the final bill. Randy Kryn 11:36 2 December, 2014 (UTC)
As I edit various early-American history pages I've run across even more mentions of George Mason as the father or co-father of the Bill of Rights. Been a few days on this talk page, and there doesn't seem, as yet, to be a compelling reason why the template should be left off the page. Can it be put back? Thanks, Randy Kryn 14:00 5 December, 2014 (UTC)