Talk:University technical college

UTCs are NOT free schools.

They are not free schools at all. They were piloted before free schools were introduced, in fact before the Conservatives entered office and also they have the full support of the Labour Party, which free schools do not enjoy. To call UTCs free schools, is misleading and factually incorrect.-86.151.240.132 (talk) 09:55, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

The governments own website states they are a type of free school. Bleaney (talk) 14:42, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Interesting, though, that the UTC website (found here) doesn't mention anything to do with Free Schools. The DfE page for UTCs (found here) also doesn't mention Free Schools - indeed Free Schools are a different section of the Types of Schools section of the DfE website - and the DfE page on What are UTCs also doesn't mention Free Schools in any way.

None of which means that there isn't somewhere on the DfE website (or on some other government website) that doesn't describe UTCs as Free Schools - the DfE website in particular is almost impossible to find stuff on quickly without using a popular search engine. So I'm curious which government website you're using.

My gut feeling is that, per the IP above, they really aren't the same thing - although they may well be funded in a similar sort of way I suppose. Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:04, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

The big question here is ownership and funding. UTC's like free schools are not owned by the government, but are government funded. They are able to deviate from the national curriculum, however they must still run SATS and GCSEs/equivalents. Im happy for the article to be reworded, and I appreciate they are very distinctive from other free schools, but I feel this article should mention the fact that they are funded and operated in a similar way. Bleaney (talk) 15:10, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Can you find something on the whole funding and so on on the DfE (I think that's probably the best source). Tbh what you've described looks rather like an academy as well isn't it - or have I missed something in how they're funded or owned that's different? Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:13, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Youre right, Academies, free schools and UTCs all share a lot of similarities. I have reworded the article, simply stating that they are a type of secondary school for now, while still mentioning in the description their similarities to free schools. Like you im struggling to find on the DfE website where they said they were free schools (They did used to say that, as thats what I read on the website when I created the article). It may be that the DfE have changed their minds. Bleaney (talk) 15:17, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't be the first time the DfE have changed their mind about something like that! Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:21, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, Bleaney said that UTCs must be free schools because they have independence, autonomy over funding and powers over their own curriculum. That does not mean it is a free school at all. It could be a trust school, academy or foundation school which have existed for over 10 years, free schools have been around for less than three. Not the first time Bleaney has been so incorrect. --86.135.53.139 (talk) 15:56, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

There's no need to be so uncivil, we work together on Wikipedia, not snidy one-upmanship. Bleaney (talk) 16:45, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Bleaney, there is no need to mention free schools and academies. It is irrelevant. Academies are not new anyway. UTCs are just state schools with autonomy, leave it alone and stop edit warring.--AngieWattsFan (talk) 17:24, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Blue Square things did this reword, nit me. You are edit warring AngieWattsFan, and you have been warned about it in reference to many other wikipedia pages. I dont see what the problem is in comparing UTCs with Free Schools with academies? Whats the problem? Are you denying that there are similarities? Why not engage in some debate on here rather than just blindly pushing through your own opinion? Bleaney (talk) 15:13, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

I might give this a bit of a going over later today if I get the chance and try and get some sort of consensus from the key sources and press sources. Maybe. Blue Square Thing (talk) 12:24, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

I am happy with new version, but seeing as we established there is a consensus against mentioning free schools, how about we do away with mentions regarding academies seeing as there is little point.--AngieWattsFan (talk) 16:06, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

I have to say, I think the opposite, I would say UTCs are more similar to free schools than academies. As the article states, UTC's cannot be set up as a successor to a previous state secondary like academies can - there is no direct transfer of pupils like academies have. Surely this is more similar to the creation of a free school than an academy? --Bleaney (talk)

Well that is your opinion, and we should not be coerced into following it. UTCs are not free schools, they are not set up by parents. Soem free schools are actually a successor to a previous state secondary school and you never know, the next Education Secretary (probably Stephen Twigg) may allow existing state schools to become UTcs, so we cannot make assumptions like that. The point is, is that UTCs have autonomy. There is a consensus on this page that the mention of free schools is irrelevant and should be removed.--AngieWattsFan (talk) 17:12, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't jump straight to consensus fwiw - certainly that they shouldn't necessarily be mentioned at some point. I'd say there's some more stuff to think about here yet. Blue Square Thing (talk) 17:38, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Its not my opinion, its a fact, give me one example of a free school that took a direct transfer from a previous school? You cant! And your speculating and making assumptions by mooting the idea of what the next education secretary might do. Please dont be political, please discuss facts. Bleaney (talk)

There's the private school in Yorkshire that converted isn't there? Blue Square Thing (talk) 17:38, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes that is true. To be honest, Bleaney I was just making a point. It is you who needs to discuss facts seing as you were telling us that UTCs are free schools.You credibility is a little bit low on this one.--AngieWattsFan (talk) 20:18, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

The DfE seems to class them as academies, so we have to say that they're academies in some way - they may well say free schools are academies as well fwiw. But they're not really like free schools at all other than being new as far as I can tell. Certainly the really interesting things about them - the links to universities and employers and the mainly vocational education seems to me to be completely different from the ethos behind free schools. But, as I've said before, the DfE is vague (and clearly pushing the pov associated with Gove about free schools being fantastically amazingly good and all). Blue Square Thing (talk) 17:38, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

You are right Blue Square Thing, As I recall Batley Grammar became a free school. I should have clarified my comments and said that no state school can convert to a free school or UTC, but obviously they can convert to an academy. And thats what ive based my comparison on. Im not in the habit of edit warring, and I will bow to consensus. I dont insist on getting my own way, and dont insult others who dont agree with me, so am happy to keep things as they are, although input from some other editors would be helpful, and I will continue to review this, as the DfE seem to keep reclassifying! Bleaney (talk) 17:45, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

But one thing I will add - If we look at the first line of the Description section of the current article -

UTCs are schools funded by the taxpayer, non-selective, free to attend and not controlled by a local authority but instead they have autonomy... Isnt this also true of free schools as wel as academies? Bleaney (talk) 17:59, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Free schools came after UTCs. It was Ed Balls who piloted the first UTC when he was Secretary of State. It is not about you getting your own way, it is about facts and you are insulting our intelligence on this issue by edit warring previously.--AngieWattsFan (talk) 20:18, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

ill ignore that AngieWattsFan, as you calling people out about edit warring is hilarious! Any body else got any views? Bleaney (talk) 13:18, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Despite the fact we are trying to reach consensus, AngieWattsFan has ignored the process (again) and has now removed academies as well as free schools. I think its useful to mention them in the article as I believe there are notable similarities. What do others think? Bleaney (talk) 13:28, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

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Article on North East Futures UTC

If it is possible, could someone create an article on North East Futures UTC?

Every other UTC has currently got a article about it other than this UTC, so could it be possible for someone to do this? Pizza Slayer (talk) 15:11, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

North East Futures UTC  Done, additional contributions wecome. --ClemRutter (talk) 10:38, 16 May 2021 (UTC)