Talk:Unix

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First Release Date[edit]

I just changed the first release date from 4/20/1969 to just 1969, as that particular date looked fishy (4/20 is a marijuana reference), and it turns out it was added by an anonymous user on 3/21/2013, with no other edit history or changes made.

However, I'm not convinced that 1969 is the appropriate year to list as the first release, not least because it's before the beginning of the Unix epoch. Would 1971 or 1973 be more appropriate? Squigish (talk) 04:58, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

The epoch has nothing to do with this. Development starting in 1969, but that was certainly not the first release date. The Version 1 manual was completed in 1971, which can be considered the first internal "release", but I don't know how internal that was, i.e. whether anyone but the computer science group at Bell Labs got to touch the system. I suppose the first Unix shipped outside of Bell after the publication of the CACM paper, Nov. 1973. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 10:29, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

The UNIX release date, according to the official UNIX website (http://www.unix.org/what_is_unix/history_timeline.html), should be 1969 rather than 1973. The original Wikipedia page on UNIX showed 1969 as the release date, while the current page was modified to 1973. 1973 is the wrong year since by 1973, fourth edition of UNIX was released (http://www.unix.org/what_is_unix/history_timeline.html). So it should be changed back to 1969 per the official website (http://www.unix.org/what_is_unix/history_timeline.html). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonga2010 (talkcontribs) 14:29, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

The UNIX release date was marked as 1969 in the original Wikipedia article. Later it was changed to 1973 by someone for no reason. The year 1969 marks the beginning of the UNIX. So the Wiki article should change the first release date to "start date". This will be better than using "first release date" because the former is unambiguous. 1973 is definitely wrong year even for first release date because by the year 1973, 4th edition of UNIX had been released (see http://www.unix.org/what_is_unix/history_timeline.html). Also you can check with Ken Thompson and Rob Pike and other original contributors of UNIX for the dates about UNIX. Most of programming languages use 1970 as the epoch time (UNIX Time) in Date/Time system. Also the UNIX family tree graph in the article also showed 1969 as the start year of UNIX. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonga2010 (talkcontribs)

"For no reason" except the reason outlined above. There is no "start date" in Template:Infobox OS, so that won't work. As I stated earlier, the epoch has nothing to do with this.
I actually did some more research into this and it seems that 1974 would in fact be more correct; that's the year, AFAICT, that the first Unix licenses were given out to universities. Another option is to pick the date of the first production installation, but I haven't been able to find that. (History of Unix gives 1972, but without a source.) QVVERTYVS (hm?) 10:36, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Is it possible to add something like "Start time" or "Begin time" in Template:Infobox OS? Using "First release date" is debatable for UNIX history and does not reach consensus on the exact date of the first release version since various sources show different time around 1969-1970's. Even if you look at the Bell Labs' own website about UNIX history, it does not have an "official" first release date (See: http://www.bell-labs.com/history/unix/). So I suggest to add "Start Date" in Template:Infobox OS and change "initial release" to "Start Date (1969)" or "Begin Date (1969)". This will avoid all ambiguity and debates about the definition of "first release date" and "first version" on UNIX. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonga2010 (talkcontribs) 13:43, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

We could add a "start of development" field to that template. Let's discuss over at Template talk:Infobox OS#New field proposal: development started. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 14:49, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
The release date in the current version of the article is definitely wrong as in 1973, the third edition of UNIX did exist already. So why not using the official "August 1969", see unix.org timetable. Schily (talk) 13:57, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
I don't know where you see "August" in that link. 1969 is obviously mentioned, but it's not a release date, as has been pointed out already. There was no production system inside Bell Labs until at least 1971, and no outside release until at least 1973 (or 74). Two people using a prototype system does not constitute a release. In fact that timetable on unix.org first mentions the word "release" for UNIX System III.
As for V3 having existed in '73, that's right: V4 or V5 was the first to ever appear outside AT&T. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 14:40, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
For a company as large as AT&T, it seems to be sufficient if the system was used in a different division and this seems to be verified by the fact that AT&T used the UNIX system for writing roff based documentation since 1971. Schily (talk) 17:01, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
I'm in favor of mentioning both the first internal production use and the first external license. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 19:43, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
You may missunderstand how UNIX was developed. AT&T was the owner of the telephone monoply at that time and the US regulations forbid any other commercial activities than telephony for AT&T. For this reason, the product UNIX was given away for free with sources and there was no Copyright information in the sources before 1982 (when AT&T was restructured and the telephone monopoly went away). You will not be able to verify an external license from before ~ 1982 and at that time there was already a fork from the project available (BSD UNIX). Schily (talk) 09:18, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
Here's a Unix license from 1974. The lack of a copyright in many source files was probably an oversight; the C compiler from 5th Ed. carries a comment stating "Copyright 1972 Bell Telephone Laboratories, Inc." QVVERTYVS (hm?) 09:37, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for the pointer. A missing Copyright note for more than 10 years in plenty of files is most likely not an oversight but intention. Schily (talk) 14:25, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
As in waiving of copyrights? I find that extremely hard to believe, given that they licensed the software. The manual for V5 had a copyright notice, but AT&T was sloppy with such notices in other occasions, which provided ammunition for UCB's counterclaim in USL v. BSDi (see e.g. [http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/bsdi/930610.ucb_complaint.txt this complaint of a lack of copyright notices in SVR4). QVVERTYVS (hm?) 19:31, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

I also support adding "Start Date" for OS info box. This is especially true for UNIX since it is the most influential OS in computer industry and its exact "initial release date" is not well defined and there is no consensus on defining "initial release". Various sources show different years around 1969-1970s but it is clear that "Start Date" for UNIX is the year 1969. It agrees with the "/root" year 1969 used in the UNIX family tree graph on top of the UNIX infobox. So using "Start Date" is a better choice than using "initial release" for UNIX in particular. Other OSs and various UNIX derivatives can still use "initial release" in infobox if the "initial release" is certain and exact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonga2010 (talkcontribs) 20:17, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Security holes claim[edit]

Am I the only one who doubts the second sentence (marked bold)?

Unix provided the TCP/IP networking protocol on relatively inexpensive computers, which contributed to the Internet explosion of worldwide real-time connectivity, and which formed the basis for implementations on many other platforms. This also exposed numerous security holes in the networking implementations.

It formed the basis for implementations and therefore exposed holes in them? Any references telling more about it? --Sergei (talk) 21:15, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

This sentence is so unclear that I just removed it. If someone wants this back, they'll need a good source for it. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 22:45, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2014[edit]

Flavours of Unix:

Unix is not a single operating system. It has many flavors i.e implementations .Different flavors have their own unique commands and features, and designed to work with different types of hardware.

Here are some lists:

   Solaris by Sun Microsystems
   AIX by IBM
   BSD/OS (BSDi) by Wind River
   Tru64 Unix (formerly Digital Unix) by Compaq Computer Corp.
   FreeBSD by FreeBSD Group
   GNU Herd by GNU Organization
   HAL SPARC64/OS by HAL Computer Systems, Inc.
   HP-UX by Hewlett-Packard Company
   Irix by Silicon Graphics, Inc.
   Linux by several groups LynxOS by Lynx Real-Time Systems, Inc.
   MacOS X Server by Apple Computer, Inc.
   NetBSD by NetBSD Group
   OpenBSD by OpenBSD Group
   OpenLinux by Caldera Systems, Inc.
   Openstep by Apple Computer, Inc.
   Red Hat Linux by Red Hat Software, Inc.
   SCO Unix by The Santa Cruz Operation Inc.
   SuSE by S.u.S.E., Inc.
   UNICOS by Silicon Graphics, Inc.

Itechonic (talk) 11:57, 4 April 2014 (UTC) [1]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} (tec) 13:34, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 April 2014[edit]

The release year for UNIX should be 1969, not 1973 (see the official website: http://www.unix.org/what_is_unix/history_timeline.html). It was shown as 1969 in the original wiki page. Tonga2010 (talk) 14:38, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done The earliest "release date" given in the article you are citing is 1982.
The only reference to 1969 is that is when they "started working on the "little-used PDP-7 in a corner" at Bell Labs and what was to become UNIX"
"Started working on" is clearly not a release date. Arjayay (talk) 14:57, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist}} template (see the help page).