Talk:Urbino

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Dukes of Urbino[edit]

There should prolly be some mention of Lorenzo II de' Medici, the Duke of Urbino to whom Niccolo Machiavelli's The Prince was dedicated. But I don't know enough to write more than that single sentence. — OwenBlacker 21:16, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

Right on! a brief mention of the Medici interlude is now properly part of the tale. Wetman 23:44, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Transfer of Duchy from della Rovere/Medici to the church/Pope Urban VIII[edit]

The account of this transfer in the article is somewhat different from an account in Dava Sobel's book Galileo's Daughter:

Urban had encroached on Medici property early in his pontificate, in 1624, by laying unlawful claim to land Ferdinando [II Grand Duke of Tuscany, de' Medici] was due to inherit from the elderly and infirm Franceso della Rovere, the duke of Urbino. Pope Urban decided that the duke's death would leave Urbino a vacant fief, which he could annex to the states of the church. But Ferdinando's Aunt Caterina de' Medici, formerly the duchess of Urbino, had long ago left the territory to Ferdinando's family [the Medici] in her will. Also, Ferdinando's bride to be, to whom he had been betrothed when he was twelve, and she an infant in arms, was Vittoria della Rovere, the granddaughter and only heir of the aging duke. The primary purpose of the couple's long standing engagement had been to secure the Duchy of Urbino for the House of Medici. These particulars, however, did not stop Urban from marching the papal troops into Urbino, poised to take possession [when?]. After Francesco della Rovere finally died in 1631, Ferdinando and Vittoria (still a child living the Florentine convent of the Crocetta) had lost the land to Pope Urban.

Sobel includes this incident in her book to help illustrate the pope's possible state of mind when he first heard about Galileo's already published book in the summer of 1632, which many of his advisors and friends described as an insult to him personally. As one of Urban's several potentially serious political worries, Sobel described possible retribution by the Medici Grand Duke of Tuscany, Ferdinando II, (who had turned 18 in July of 1628, after the regency of his mother and grandmother since 1621). When Ferdinando della Rovere died in 1631, Vittoria Della Rovere was only 11; her father had been the heir, (Federico Ubaldo della Rovere) but died in 1623.

Sobel states that Urban VIII made his claim in 1624, and this was described in other WP articles, although is was not clear how he did so. The date of the placing of troops in Urbino was not precisely clear.

Then, I found a more precise statement on Vittoria Della Rovere's page, which cites the same source as used for this article: Acton, Harold: The Last Medici, Macmillan, London, 1980, ISBN 0-333-29315-0

As an infant it was expected that [Vittoria Della Rovere]] would eventually inherit her grandfather's Duchy of Urbino, but Pope Urban VIII convinced Francesco Maria to resign it to the Papacy.[2] The duchy was eventually annexed to the Papal States by Pope Urban VIII.[2] Instead, she received the Rovere allodial possessions, the Duchies of Rovere and Montefeltro, and art collection which became her property in 1631 aged nine.[3]

(The footnote numbers are incorrect because I copied the quote from the article.)

So, it sounds like inducing the old duke of Urbino to sign the property over to the church was the "claim" on the land that authors describe.

I think I have the general picture here, I have enjoyed Sobel's book several times, but I am no expert on this topic. I will look for another source to try to determine more precisely what occurred, but in the meantime, if anyone else has comments, or knows more and wants to incorporate their knowledge and the above, help yourself!

Peacedance (talk) 23:07, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Transfer of Duchy from della Rovere/Medici to the church/Pope Urban VIII[edit]

According to Dava Sobel,

Urban had encroached on Medici property early in his pontificate, in 1624, by laying unlawful claim to land Ferdinando (II) was due to inherit from the elderly and infirm Franceso della Rovere, the duke of Urbino. Pope Urban decided that the duke's death would leave Urbino a vacant fief, which he could annex to the states of the church. But Ferdinando's Aunt Caterina de' Medici, formerly the duchess of Urbino, had long ago left the territory to Ferdinando's family [the Medici] in her will. Also, Ferdinando's bride to be, to whom he had been betrothed when he was twelve, and she an infant in arms, was Vittoria della Rovere, the granddaughter and only heir of the aging duke. The primary purpose of the couple's long standing engagement had been to secure the Duchy of Urbino for the House of Medici. These particulars, however, did not stop Urban from marching the papal troops into Urbino, poised to take possession [when?]. After Francesco della Rovere finally died in 1631, Ferdinando and Vittoria (still a child living the Florentine convent of the Crocetta)had lost the land to Pope Urban.

Sobel includes this incident in Galileo's Daughter to help illustrate the pope's ostensible state of mind when he had Galileo put on trial. She suggests that one of many of the pope's worries included possible retribution by the Medici Grand Duke, Ferdinando II, (who had turned 18 in July of 1628, after the regency of his mother and grandmother since 1621). Franceso della Rovere had died in 1631, and his granddaughter was only 11. Sobel states that Urban VIII made his claim in 1624, although is not clear how he did so, except for the placing of troops in Urbino, but the date of that action is not precisely clear. Galileo's book arrived in Rome in the summer of 1632.

I found this more precise statement under Vittoria Della Rovere's page, which cites the same source as used for this article: Acton, Harold: The Last Medici, Macmillan, London, 1980, ISBN 0-333-29315-0

As an infant it was expected that [Vittoria Della Rovere]] would eventually inherit her grandfather's Duchy of Urbino, but Pope Urban VIII convinced Francesco Maria to resign it to the Papacy.[2] The duchy was eventually annexed to the Papal States by Pope Urban VIII.[2] Instead, she received the Rovere allodial possessions, the Duchies of Rovere and Montefeltro, and art collection which became her property in 1631 aged nine.[3]

(The footnote numbers are incorrect because I copied the quote from the article.)

Perhaps inducing the duke to sign the property over to the church was the "claim" on the land that authors describe. I see that this occurred after the death of the duke's son and heir apparent Federico Ubaldo della Rovere, in 1623.

I think I have the general picture here, I have enjoyed Sobel's book several times, but I am no expert on this topic. I will look for another source to try to determine more precisely what occurred, but in the meantime, if anyone else has comments, or knows more and wants to incorporate their knowledge and the above, help yourself!

Peacedance (talk) 23:09, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Transfer of Duchy from della Rovere/Medici to the church/Pope Urban VIII[edit]

According to Dava Sobel,

Urban had encroached on Medici property early in his pontificate, in 1624, by laying unlawful claim to land Ferdinando (II) was due to inherit from the elderly and infirm Franceso della Rovere, the duke of Urbino. Pope Urban decided that the duke's death would leave Urbino a vacant fief, which he could annex to the states of the church. But Ferdinando's Aunt Caterina de' Medici, formerly the duchess of Urbino, had long ago left the territory to Ferdinando's family [the Medici] in her will. Also, Ferdinando's bride to be, to whom he had been betrothed when he was twelve, and she an infant in arms, was Vittoria della Rovere, the granddaughter and only heir of the aging duke. The primary purpose of the couple's long standing engagement had been to secure the Duchy of Urbino for the House of Medici. These particulars, however, did not stop Urban from marching the papal troops into Urbino, poised to take possession [when?]. After Francesco della Rovere finally died in 1631, Ferdinando and Vittoria (still a child living the Florentine convent of the Crocetta)had lost the land to Pope Urban.

Sobel includes this incident in Galileo's Daughter to help illustrate the pope's ostensible state of mind when he had Galileo put on trial. She suggests that one of many of the pope's worries included possible retribution by the Medici Grand Duke, Ferdinando II, (who had turned 18 in July of 1628, after the regency of his mother and grandmother since 1621). Franceso della Rovere had died in 1631, and his granddaughter was only 11. Sobel states that Urban VIII made his claim in 1624, although is not clear how he did so, except for the placing of troops in Urbino, but the date of that action is not precisely clear. Galileo's book arrived in Rome in the summer of 1632.

I found this more precise statement under Vittoria Della Rovere's page, which cites the same source as used for this article: Acton, Harold: The Last Medici, Macmillan, London, 1980, ISBN 0-333-29315-0

As an infant it was expected that [Vittoria Della Rovere]] would eventually inherit her grandfather's Duchy of Urbino, but Pope Urban VIII convinced Francesco Maria to resign it to the Papacy.[2] The duchy was eventually annexed to the Papal States by Pope Urban VIII.[2] Instead, she received the Rovere allodial possessions, the Duchies of Rovere and Montefeltro, and art collection which became her property in 1631 aged nine.[3]

(The footnote numbers are incorrect because I copied the quote from the article.)

Perhaps inducing the duke to sign the property over to the church was the "claim" on the land that authors describe. I see that this occurred after the death of the duke's son and heir apparent Federico Ubaldo della Rovere, in 1623.

I think I have the general picture here, I have enjoyed Sobel's book several times, but I am no expert on this topic. I will look for another source to try to determine more precisely what occurred, but in the meantime, if anyone else has comments, or knows more and wants to incorporate their knowledge and the above, help yourself!

Peacedance (talk) 23:17, 29 November 2013 (UTC)