Talk:Urum language

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I'm confused[edit]

The infobox says this language is spoken by 192,729 people -- this figure comes from the Ethnologue which breaks it up into 98,000 in Georgia and 95,000 in Ukraine. But the article mentions it being spoken by "several thousand people who inhabit a few villages". To me that implies something in the range of 6,000 to 12,000 (in any event much less than 192,000). Also the article says "In 1937 the use of written Urum stopped." That can't be correct, can it? Certainly if there are almost 200,000 who speak the language, they must write it as well. --Mathew5000 10:43, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Hmm...I'm the one who put in the Ethnologue data, but I think you're right in believing that there are fewer speakers than what's in the info box. There's a dictionary of the Azov Sea dialects by Oleksandr Harkavets, I'll see what I can find in it. Straughn 15:24, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Urum - disambiguation[edit]

The Urum language (or rather dialect) spoken in Southeastern Ukraine is different from the one spoken in Georgia. The former is a branch of Crimean Tatar (a Kypchak Turkic language) whereas the latter is a dialect of Turkish (an Oghuz Turkic language), even though they are defined by the same name (which means "Greek" in both Turkish and Crimean Tatar). Parishan 23:09, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I've wondered about that since they're spoken pretty far apart and Urum was a sort of catch-all term for ethnic Greeks or Greek Orthodox who spoke a Turkic language. Any references you can think of? I've personally only seen Oleksander Garkavets's Ukrainian-Urum dictionary. Straughn 15:41, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
As far as I know, the Urum Turkish of Georgia has never been studied thoroughly. Memo.ru on the other hand has some info here: "Tsalka district is predominantly populated by Urum Greeks who originate from North-Eastern Anatolia, are Orthodox Christians and speak Turkish". This info is outdated though; today Tsalka is predominantly Armenian as a result of migration of the Greeks to Greece and Russia. (see Georgian Census of 2002). Also, Andrei Popov's article called Pontian Greeks has a whole bunch of facts about Urums of Georgia but the text is in Russian. Parishan 22:38, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
I'd be curious to know if the Georgian Urums have any connection to the Meskhetian Turks. Thanks for the info - I'll see what more I can find about these people and their language. Straughn 00:59, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't think they have anything in common apart from the possibility of speaking similar dialects of Turkish. The Georgian Urums trace their roots to Erzurum (Eastern Anatolia) and its surrounding areas, and are the 19th century migrants from Turkey to Russia, while the Meskhetian Turks are Georgian natives, with some of them even having Georgian surnames (a fact that some use in order to justify the theory of the Meskhetian Turks being in fact Turkified Georgians). Parishan 06:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

193,000?[edit]

I see this issue remains unresolved since 2006.

several thousand people who inhabit a few villages

This declarative sentence does not jive with the infobox. It's off by a factor of 50.
Varlaam (talk) 07:00, 8 December 2012 (UTC)