Talk:V for Vendetta

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Former good article nominee V for Vendetta was a Language and literature good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
April 3, 2006 Good article nominee Not listed
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject OWS (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Occupy Wall Street, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Occupy Wall Street on Wikipedia. Participate! Please visit the project page and join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Comics / British / DC Comics (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Comics, a collaborative effort to build an encyclopedic guide to comics on Wikipedia. Get involved! If you like to participate, you can help with the current tasks, visit the notice board, edit the attached article or discuss it at the project's talk page.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
Checklist icon
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject LGBT studies (Rated B-class)
WikiProject icon This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBT studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBT-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 
WikiProject Philosophy (Rated B-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Conservatism (Rated B-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of conservatism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for V for Vendetta:

Building Stage:


  1. Talk about what changes can be made to this article and where the weaknesses are.
  2. Creation of a 1 or 2 sentence description for each of the characters. Word economy is essential.
  3. Make bold changes to the article if you think they will enhance it
Priority 3

Racist Characterization[edit]

Please people, if you're going to say a topic is racist, make sure you have a cited source. Wikipedia is no place for original research, all statements must be cited, especially those of possible controversy. This article was in a list of maintenance tasks simply for the use of one word racist in an uncited fashion. See wp:v and wp:npov. Great article otherwise. Alan.ca 07:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned points[edit]

Points taken from the article and placed here, until we can find a place for them.

  • (Closed-circuit television had not yet become common in the UK at the time Moore wrote the series. Today, London has the world's highest concentration of C.C.T.V.)

I will add to this. The following passage is someone's personal upinion, rambling original research, and as far as I ken it is irrelevant to the article:

[It is worth noting that the telegraph and Morse code were not invented until after Beethoven's death and well after composition of Symphony #5 hence any connection between Beethoven's theme and the letter V is serendipitous but entirely coincidental. "Unless the developers of Morse Code liked Beethoven." A curious idea. The guiding principle of morse code design was efficiency assigning shorter codes to more frequently used letters (the two most frequent "e" and "t" are dot and dash). Even if the developers did have such an idea, why would "V" be chosen for the fifth symphony motiv rather than "F" for fate "knocking at Beethoven's door" or perhaps "D" for destiny? These are the ideas most commonly associated with the fifth symphony. It is most improbable that these designers anticipated WWII, radio, and the propaganda value of "Victory" combined with Beethoven's music, let alone this graphic novel, as reasons to assign the ...- to the letter "V".]

The square brackets were part of the original passage; I did not add them. 71.204.204.249 11:25, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

External links to references[edit]

Okay, I've converted the external links into reference format. Hiding talk 14:17, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


Fabulous, it's really starting to come together now.Logan1138 17:11, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Somewhere I've got a sketch Lloyd did for me of V for Vendetta, I've just asked at WP:FU if I can upload it and use it in this article. Hiding talk 19:23, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


I don't think it would pass. I seem to remember a similar thing popping up on a 2000AD related article where the answer was no.Logan1138 07:30, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Ah. That's probably to do with the unpublished nature of the work, I guess. Still, what else needs doing? Hiding talk 08:42, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


Things to do:

  • Expand the plot.
  • Going over the citations
  • Quotes on Wikiquote
  • Formatting (do we need the chapter titles for example).

Anyone else have any suggestions?Logan1138 12:04, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

RE: Section "Adaptations" Film, Citation #9[edit]

Hello, I am a newly registered wiki user so please forgive if this is not the right place to ask this question. However, I am concerned about the citation in the Adaptations section of this article under Film. Citation 9 is a quote from Alan Moore taken from another website article by Megan Basham. The website is Townhall. com and it is an extremely right-wing conservative article as well as website.

I would like to know where the original source for this quote comes from because I feel that it very likely misrepresents or skews Mr. Moore's own words. It was clearly placed in the article cited with a political agenda. I feel it is irresponsible to reproduce it here without the original quote source.

Thanks, Renjem

  • Moore's quoted from an MTV interview, [1], and it's pretty much in context as used in the article, Moore objects to them using his story to make a film attacking Bush; Moore's point is that his story was very much about England. Hiding talk 18:19, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Modified the film section to include details as to why Moore did not support the film (the old quotes from the Independent did not go into the reasons why). I also cited the original MTV interview about Moore, which places the second quote into the proper context that it was intended for.--P-Chan 22:04, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Renjem on this issue. The way that Alan Moore was quoted by Townhall.com was not an accurate portrayal of Moore's original argument. The quote has appeared on several Conservative talk shows and articles in a manner that seems to portray Alan Moore as a conservative. I have not researched Alan Moore extensively, but I believe that this is not accurate. While he did denounce the film as having a liberal slant... he did so, not because he was conservative, but rather because he was an Anarchist. He believes that V for Vendetta is a story about Anarchy and about Britain; and that if the filmmakers wanted to protest America, they should have done what Moore himself had done and not be cowards. I believe the quote can be placed into a more neutral and accurate context by:
  1. pairing the quote with a citation from the original MTV interview that Hiding has provided
  2. and by lengthening the quote and providing enough context to accurately represent Alan Moore.
--P-Chan 22:29, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Bloody good job you made of it too. Well done. Hiding The wikipedian meme 20:20, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks dude! --P-Chan 00:43, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I am new to this discussion. I'm thinking that two things are missing here. First is that Moore denounced the film before he knew anything about it. The quote is interesting and all, but it's his overarching rejection of Hollywood that prompted his disgust, not the actual movie.

Second, David Lloyd's positive reaction to the movie is completely omitted. He is co-author, and his opinion is also worthy. I'm going to edit the article to include this, but I also wanted to bring it up here, since this article has an active group working on it. :)

-AngelaHarms 15:48, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Too much[edit]

Too much summary, not enough analysis. Spoilers should be outlawed o nthis site, its an encyclopedia not a fan site

  • I see no problem leaving the summary up, as knowing the plot of such a complicated story is necessary for analysis. Instead, I think the analysis should be added alongside of the summary already written.
   *You said it yourself: "this is an encyclopædia not a fan site". Fan sites usually mark when a spoiler is coming and encyclopedias state things as they really are  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.48.222.97 (talk) 17:47, 22 May 2010 (UTC) 

Allusions[edit]

I don't know if it is the case in the graphic novel or not, but in the movie there is an allusion to emma goldman (anarchist) when he wants to dance and evey talks about it being the eve of his revolution and he says something along the lines of "if i can't dance, then what's the point of a revolution" which is along the lines of the attributed quote of emma goldman of "If I can't dance, it's not my revolution" which comes from a story in a book she wrote. I think this should be included if this scene happened in the comic as well. KurtFF8 21:04, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Nope, it isn't


Well being that there are clear anarchist values in V for Vendetta, common sense would dictate that they would know about Emma Goldman and that this scene would most likley be an allusion to the famous attributed quote of hers. KurtFF8 06:56, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
In the novel, the name "Emma" is scratched onto the bench in Evey's cell though! TR_Wolf

Stockholm syndrome[edit]

Shouldn't something be said about how Evey's imprisonment by V and subsiquent identification with him more like the Stockholm syndrome than anything else?

  • Well, sure. Though the tone of the film hints strongly that V is The Good, it should definitely be mentioned that Stockholm syndrome is a plausible rebuttal. Liu Bei 02:59, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
If it were a real event, well maybe. But this is literature! Discussion on SS would add little value, methinks. But, in the spirit of shutting this idea down, Evey clearly identified with V as her hero long before her captivity -- more so in the comic than the movie.
He wanted her not to fear death. As if most torture victims at times wouldn't welcome it.    :-/
Civic Cat (talk) 19:00, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

V points[edit]

I think there a few key changes that could really help this article gain a lot strenght.

  1. For reasons that I don’t quite understand, there is no section in this article dedicated to the discussing the Anarchist/Fascism themes of the novel. This definetly should be in the themes section or some other section, considering it’s a major backdrop of the comic. (I just noticed that people talk about it a lot here). This was requested quite often in the film article, even though the film removes many of the anarchist references. The home of that discussion should really be here.
  2. Remove the titles concerning the chapters. I don’t think the names of all the chapters, add that much value to the article. They look nice and all, but it feels like just listing. The titles have some value in the novel because they connect to the themes, but when they aren’t correlated to the story itself they pretty much lose their meaning. That extra room could be used for something else...
  3. Like stating 1 or two lines about each of the characters. That would be helpful, as the comic seems to have a sprawling use of characters. A summary of each of them would help alleviate some of the pressures of talking about everyone in the plot.
  4. The overall structure of the article starts off weak, with a lead that is a little skimpy and a Publishing History section that seems a little too textbook. I’m afraid that readers might lose interest if they aren’t hit by something hard early on. We should fix this by strengthening the lead to two solid paragraphs and by moving some of the plot elements into it.
  5. This article seems a little too introverted, in that there seems to be a lack of external views or inputs. Hasn’t anyone reviewed it? Been moved by it? Influenced by it? Let’s bring in some analysis, outside opinions, something to give it a more worldly feel. (Wasn’t this a controversial film when it first came out?)

These are simply my 2 cents.

--P-Chan 05:23, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Some quick press cuttings, may be of some use?
From The Independent (London); Mar 15, 2004; Jeremy Duns; p. 12.13

V FOR VENDETTA Begun in 1982 but not completed until 1988, this is a bleak futuristic thriller about Britain under a fascist dictatorship, featuring a vigilante in a Guy Fawkes mask stalking the streets. David Lloyd's wonderful chiaroscuro artwork is one of the high points at Charleroi, with 80 original panels on display, as well as several of Moore's typewritten scripts. Moore marks this as a turning-point in his career, and credits Lloyd for encouraging him to write the script without sound effects or thought balloons.

From The Herald (Glasgow); Nov 24, 2001; Words Teddy Jamieson, Photograph Graham Barclay; p. 18

Moore began to work for DC, home of Superman and Batman and by the mid-eighties helped prompt a mini fad for comicbooks in the style mags courtesy of V for Vendetta, his vision of a future Britain (circa 1997) under the jackboot of fascism (this was the Thatcher era after all)

and

V for Vendetta (1988) Moore's response to Thatcherism imagined the establishment of a fascist state in Britain. How, he wondered, could he signal this to his readers? "I know I'll put a security camera on every corner. That will chill their blood. And here we are."

The Independent (London); Dec 9, 2000; Charles Shaar Murray; p. 10

celebrate the return to print of Moore's early left-anarchist masterpiece V For Vendetta

The Times (London); May 29, 2004; Daniel Morden; p. 10

Through comics he has written a gripping dissection of the Jack the Ripper story (From Hell), explored the relationship between art and magic (Promethea) and created a chillingly real fascist Britain (V For Vendetta).

A Lloyd quote of use? News Letter (Belfast); Aug 3, 2005; p. 3

David Lloyd adds: In terms of what happened in London, it is important to try to understand what leads people to terrorism. There should be lots of movies made about terrorism.$

Reviews:
Hope they help. The Journal has looked at the comic, but I don't have those specific issues. Hiding Talk 13:20, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
It is a mystery to me as to how we should proceed. Is there some comic book god out there, like Ebert for films, whose opinions would be highly valued? I'm right now looking at the Watchman article, and am wondering if V for Vendetta had any sort of an impact, like Watchman did. (Excuse the late reply, I just didn't know how to go about approaching this section). --P-Chan 03:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I just started a new section called "significance". To anyone who knows the V for Vendetta history, feel free to attack it.--P-Chan 03:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Warrior issue number : wrong?[edit]

Caption says #5, pic clearly shows issue #19. Some mistake? --OscarthecatFlag of the United Kingdom.svg 21:27, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes it was, but it's now fixed. Good eye.--P-Chan 17:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Weird stuff[edit]

What's with Timothy Leary and V for Vendetta?? The comments about V for Vendetta and Timothy Leary in the section on Anarchy Vs Fascism... is the third time I've heard the two connected somehow. The Wachowski Bros make Portman learn about Timothy Leary in order for her to play her role in the film. And V for Vendetta was one of the last books Timothy Leary read before he died. [2]

Weird stuff. This can't be a coincidence. Anyone know the link?--P-Chan 07:20, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Go read anything about or by Leary. In fact, his wikipedia entry itself should give pretty good reasons for the link, if you're familiar at all with the comic. There's the whole LSD episode, for starters. His quote "tune in, turn on, and drop out" (I think I 'em in the right order) is pretty anarchistic in that it urges you to develop what talents you have, pay attention to the world, and accept no social authority for the sake of social authority. There's a really interesting picture on Leary's 1972 arrest. The look on his face is exhilarated, triumphant, and free -- a wonderfully dissonant picture, but besides the photo itself, it's the face of someone who has faced their fear and is now laughing at it. I'm by no means a Leary admirer myself, but hey, you wanted to know the link. 208.61.125.61 04:14, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
You mean this?









Civic Cat (talk) 19:00, 4 May 2012 (UTC)


Someone change this...[edit]

It appears that someone was having a little fun changing the plot to their liking and while this is slightly comical, it belongs on uncyclopedia.org, not on here. This is one of my favorite movies of all time and it is an abomination to see the page so sabotaged. Someone please change the plot back or correct it or whatever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.2.175.85 (talk) 06:34, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

To quote V, "there is no coincidence, there is only the illusion of coincidence".

This article is about the graphic novel, not about the film. The plots are not identical. Please sign your posts. 71.204.204.249 11:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Novelization[edit]

I believe that a link to the film novelization is worthwhile here, but it was reverted. Let's discuss. Lord Bodak 21:20, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

If anywhere, it should be belong in the film article, as opposed to here. It's based on the screenplay itself. On the cover of the novel it says:
  • "An uncompromising vision of the future from the creators of The Matrix trilogy"
  • "A novelization by Steve Moore based on the screenplay written by the Wachowski brothers".
(Note the absense of Alan Moore or even the comic itself.) One compromise would be to write a few lines within the film part in this article, that would link to the novelization article. --P-Chan 21:26, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I added the blurb to the film article, as there is no doubt that it belongs there (other films have the same thing). I agree with your recommended compromise for this article, though. Lord Bodak 21:33, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Third party resolution[edit]

I am an average joe with no axe to grind here. I did see a request for third party moderation regarding this article. I am specifically asking what the problem is and what should be done. And hopefully we can come to some kind of agreement. Anyone with further concerns can contact me on my talk page. Thanks. Piercetp 00:29, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Never heard anything about this myself. Are you sure? Where did you see this? --P-Chan 00:56, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
At Wikipedia:Third opinion it was posted:
V for Vendetta page needs a third opinion regarding ambiguities in the V character's identity and, now, historical development outside the text. See Talk:V for Vendetta particularly under "The disclaimer" subsection. 01:04, 31 March 2006 (UTC). I decided I would check out what was going on here.
Basically I am just trying to help out and find what is going on here. You seem to have edited this article quite a bit. Are there any disputes here? Piercetp 02:09, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Judging by the date, (March 31st), it must be the section in the archive under "The disclaimer". I had no idea that 3rd party arbitration was requested, as it was before my time in terms of my participation. In any case, I think it's all good now.  :) Your vigilance is appreciated though! --P-Chan 02:37, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. Good work on the article. Piercetp 04:07, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Reference[edit]

Can whoever wrote this article ask the author Lloyd whether the character Lewis Prothero is based on a real person. I suspect that the name may be taken from John Profumo, a disgraced British politician.

Sign your posts. This isn't the place for that kind of request, Wikipedia articles are written collaboratively by an untold number of people, and a little thinking would have answered the question for you. On what basis do you assume that one is based on the other? The fact that their names begin in "P" and end in "O"? The name isn't made up; it's fairly common. A Google search produces 558,000 results for "prothero"; none of the results in the first two pages have anything to do with V for Vendetta. The novel's Prothero isn't a politician, he's a broadcaster and a former concentration camp commandant. Profumo was a lifelong civil servant whose father was also a politician. Prothero is driven irrevocably insane by a drug overdose; Profumo lost his office in a sex scandal in the 1960s but started a new career in charitable fundraising. Prothero relished in his government's manipulation of the people; Profumo had a distinguished career in the public interest and many now feel that he was unfairly set up by his rivals. Jump in here anytime you see a connection forming. Oh, and Lloyd was the illustrator, not the author. 71.204.204.249 11:58, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

The FLAG Would Make A Good Desktop Background...[edit]

If memory serves me correctly (and for such an appropriate flag, I can't think why it wouldn't). Didn't there use to be a decent flag on this article? I was a cross between the Union Jack, the American Flag and the Flag of the Third Reich (it had a swastika seamlessly embedded within it). I just felt that the flag should be included in the article. Whoever made it spent considerable amounts of laudable time and effort on it.

--Nukemason 15:34, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The flag in question only appears in the movie, never in the comic, so it doesn't really belong here. And it's only in one brief scene in the movie, so while it is well done, it probably doesn't merit inclusion in the movie article either. --Le Scoopertemp [tk] 14:57, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
There was a pannel showing the Government's flag in the comic, but in the comics, the flag used is simply an N on a coloured background (the pannel's in black and white, so I don't know what colour). I just thought someone might find that interesting ;) Thε Halo Θ 01:55, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
I believe the flag used by "norsefire" in the film is actually a modified flag of York. Black with a red cross with two horizontal lines at the top? The American/Union Jack/Swastika flag made an appearance in a mans hidden cellar but has no bearing on the films plot or the article. I'm sure you could find it in google though. Bloody Sacha 8/31/2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.187.156.140 (talk) 23:05, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Again, that's in the film, not the novel. The Norsefire flag might be relevant to the Norsefire article, but the jack appearing briefly and without comment in Deitrich's secret room was a political parody, not an actual national or party flag. Unless someone starts an article on the contents of Deitrich's forbidden collection from the film, it has no place here. 71.204.204.249 12:03, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

The Houses of Parliament and the Old Bailey[edit]

Just a note to anyone reading this before editing the main page. This article is about the V for Vendetta comic book. In the book, V blows up the Houses of Parliament first and the Old Bailey later. Please don't change the article to say he blows up the Bailey first just because that's what happens in the film. --Le Scoopertemp [tk] 21:23, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Communist[edit]

In the movie he is a socialist, not an anarchist.

Firstly, this article is about the comic, not the movie. Secondly, how do you figure? That's an awfully bald and undefended statement. Thirdly, communism and socialism aren't the same thing -- it would be possible to be an anarchist and a communist (if your commune genuinely springs from voluntary association and does not persecute those who secede), but not a *socialist* (believes in social obligation enforced by central authority) and an anarchist. 68.215.183.56 20:10, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Wrong. Anarchists are indeed Socialist. Maybe you should brush up on your knowledge of political ideologies. Visit: www.revleft.com. Do some research.

You are not that intelligent. Socialists ARE FOR BIG GOVERNMENT. Communists want NO GOVERNMENT. Communist state is an oxymoron. It's an anarchic utopia. SOCIALISM is all about government. Do some basic reading.

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.24.149.13 (talk) 22:19, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

No personal attacks, please. Socialism is about society; historically Anarchists have considered themselves Socialist - they used the Red Flag, for example, and campaigned on similar issues (many people associate May Day and the 40-hour week with Socialists, however it was Anarchists died at Haymarket, for example). Communists believe ultimately in no government; however where they differ from Anarchists is that they believe in a transitory state of government before communism is achieved. Marxists, for example, believe in a short-lived "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" as a precursor to communism. All states led by Communist parties have had governments, for example (Marxism being the dominant philosophy in 20th Century Communism).
All of this is completely off-topic for this article, anyway. If you want to debate whether Anarchism is Communism is Socialism you'd be better off finding somewhere off-wiki. Either way, please comment on content, not editors.
Cheers,  This flag once was red  23:25, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello, just wanted to say that I am an Anarchist and a Socialist. Most of us are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.57.68.20 (talk) 06:41, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Numerology[edit]

In terms of numerological meanings the number 5 is the symbol for an individual with a highly progressive mindset, with the attitude and skills to make the world a better place. The key word for this person’s Life Path is freedom. In the pursuit of freedom, he is naturally versatile, adventurous, and advanced in your thinking. You are one of those people who is always striving to find answers to the many questions that life poses. 5 is the number most often associated with the productive use of freedom. A person who associates with the number 5 is perhaps the most compassionate of people as the 5 is surely the most freedom-loving and compassionate Life Path. His love of freedom extends to humanity at large, and concern for his fellow man, his freedom and his welfare, may be foremost in your mind. He is a good communicator, and you know how to motivate people around him.This may be his strongest and most valuable trait. Because of this skill, and the individuals amazing wit, he is a truly natural born salesman. This ability to sell and motivate extends to any sort of physical product all the way through to whatever ideas or concepts you may embrace. The individual who associates himself with the number 5 abhors routine and boring work, and you are not very good at staying with everyday tasks that must be finished on time. On the average, the number 5 personality is rather happy-go-lucky; living for today, and not worrying too much about tomorrow. It is also important for him to find a job that provides thought-provoking tasks rather than routine and redundant responsibilities. He does best dealing with people, but the important thing is that you have the flexibility to express yourself at all times. he an innate ability to think through complex matters and analyze them quickly, but then be off to something new. A love of adventure may dominate the life of someone associated with the number 5.. This may take the form of mental or physical manifestation, but in either case, you thrill to the chance for exploration and blazing new trails. Surely he belongs to a group considered the most worldly and traveled. Clearly he is not one to pass up a good venture. He has quite a lot of the risk-taker in your makeup. If he isn’t putting his money at stake, you are surely open to a wide variety of risks in his everyday life. Taking the conservative approach is just not in his nature. In romance, the number 5 suggests that the individual hates to be tied down and restricted. This doesn't necessarily mean that he is unfaithful or promiscuous, but it does mean that a good partner for him needs to understand his nature. A relationship based on jealousy and having tight reigns is not going to work at all for him. A partner who understands his need to be free and trusted will find him trustworthy, even if he isn’t constantly available and totally dutiful. It is important for him to mix with people of a like mind, and to try to avoid those that are too serious and demanding. An individual living on the negative side of the Life Path 5 is apt to be multitalented, but suffering from some lack of direction, and there is confusion surrounding his ambition. Restless, discontent, and impulsive, he may bounce from one job to the next without accomplishing much at all. A negative Life Path 5 can become very irresponsible in tasks and decisions concerning the home and business life. The total pursuit of sensation and adventure can result in his becoming self-indulgent and totally unaware of the feelings of those around him.

  • Someone might want to look at boiling all that down for inclusion in the Number 5 section. It doesn't really belong in the Significance section, to my mind. --Le Scoopertemp [tk] 01:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
  • The five thing is far more likely to be a reference to the law of fives, as in Illuminatus! especially as V quotes ideas about Verwirrung and Ordnung taken from that book anyway. --KharBevNor 17:05, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

V's Abilities[edit]

First, the current description of V's 'powers' is taken from the film: apart from the thing about fingers (which not only seems to have been dropped after chapter 3 (V is clearly shown using daggers in his attacks on Bishop Lillimans residence and Jordan tower) we have Delia Surridges account that there is 'nothing wrong with him', ie. his body hasn't changed. Therefore, it seems safer to assume that V's strength in the first attack is either an internal inconsistency within the novel, or has some other explanation (V may have undergone intense physical training, or it might have been a gadget similiar to his exploding hand. Indeed, the exploding hand and the smokescreen may indicate that when V was concieved his arsenal was to be more advanced, possibly incorporating artificial limbs, as he seems to completely abandon such devices as the novel progresses, moving on to far more simple weapons (mainly knives and a suicide bomb). Remember that it was originally written as a serial and that early episodes couldn't be revised as ideas were changed. Moore also says of his character concept 'the central character could be some sort of escapee, psychologically altered by his stay in a Government Concentration Camp.' ('Behind the Painted Smile' article in the back of the current Vertigo edition of V For Vendetta, emphasis mine). Delia Surridge describes his condition as a form of schizophrenia, and also mentions that he regards people like insects, indicating that he may be some form of sociopath. His mental condition (which, remember, was revealed to Finch only when he took LSD) seems to be a sort of mixture of schizophrenia and autism (note his strange obsessions, such as the number five and Guy Fawkes), combined with a vast intelligence. V also seems to think about things in an entirely different way to most people, seeing the big picture rather than individual events and drawing connections between things in abstract ways that allow him to orchestrate his plots without attracting peoples attention (ie. his escape from Larkhill using fertiliser and grease solvent). As for his memory, it should be noted that V does refer to his childhood in his speech to to the statue of Justice, however, since the whole speech is melodramatic and metaphorical, this probably doesn't mean anything. If no one has any objections to what I'm saying, I will edit the article with a much trimmed down version of this. Remember this is an article about the graphic novel, NOT the film. --KharBevNor 17:25, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

There was much discussion on the real identity of V when Warrior was still going, and one of the possibles was actually Marvel Man [renamed because of a Marvel Comics lawsuit to Miracle Man]. From what I remember of the graphic novel, he was very intelligent [duping the Larkhill staff into letting him have fertiliser, etc and then making Napalm]and hideously scarred [though the doctor calls him beautiful, I think].
193.243.227.1 (talk) 15:59, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Delia Surridge doesn't describe him as schizophrenic, she says he has a strange sort of magnetism that some categories of schizophrenic also have. Personal magnetism, not the ability to affect metal, that's a different comic. Ability-wise, he's spent the few years before the book starts building his base, teaching himself chemistry and the other skills he needs, and training himself physically. He's just very good at what he does, but an ordinary human. 188.29.164.78 (talk) 15:14, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Something funny[edit]

A politician in Taiwan called Li Ao recently disrupted a national defense committee meeting by spraying tear gas while wearing the Guy Fawkes mask from V for Vendetta. Pics Shawnc 21:46, 25 October 2006 (UTC) I saw that on the news... Puddles26 17:26, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikiquote[edit]

I've gone through and added quotes to wikiquote's article on V for Vendetta. However, people keep on adding quotes from the movie. So far, I've just been removing them as they come in. Is there any other way to keep them out?

Also, I'm thinking that the monologues should be organized into a seperate section so they don't stick out elsewhere. Any thoughts on this? Simply Curious 03:30, 1 November 2006

Is there a reason that information complying with WP:V (referenced, verifiable information) should not be included in the article (such as quotes from the movie) ? Terryeo 21:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Because the quotes are being mixed in with ones from the comics, making it impossible to tell where they're from. Simply Curious 02:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Forgot to add that the movie has its own article. --Simply Curious 20:25, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Number 5 Theme[edit]

Some of the examples mentioned in the section on V/5 are a bit irrelevant in my opinion. (e.g. "V's hand and feet each have five fingers and toes respectively"; "Hugo WeaVing played V in the film"; "Ctrl-V is the 'paste' function on PC computers") Also, putting this information in the form of a numbered list seems kind of pointless when more than one point is listed under each number (unless this is supposed to be another clever instance of the number 5). Does anyone else agree with me? Stebbins 06:26, 8 November 2006 (UTC)\

I agree. I removed the irrelevant examples; hope that improved the article. --Releeshan 20:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I have a feeling that some of the irrelevant V/5 points might be a form of subtle vandalism. (This is something that has happened on V for Vendetta (film) article as well.) Just a thought, and something to be aware of.--P-Chan 00:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I think the illuminatus quote should be removed because Beethoven did not live to see the invention of Morse Code. -fremen

I think this point should be removed: "The publisher is Vertigo-which begins with a V." Seeing as how it was first published in Warrior, then DC, and I really doubt Moore/LLoyd decided to publish it on Vertigo just because the name starts with a V. Davidovic 03:14, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Is there any chance the entire "Number 5 and letter V" section could be reduced to "The letter 'V' (and the number '5') are recurring themes throughout the comic"? The section seems to be a magnet for original research, pet theories and trivia. I've just tidied up some of the grammar, but it's still fairly dire. Also, the cite for the "The Illuminatus! Trilogy" is nonsense - I followed the link and the referenced website makes no mention of The Illuminatus! Trilogy.  This flag once was red  10:39, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Why the move?[edit]

Sorry, why was the article about the comic moved?

Surely it should still be here and then it says at the top "for the film, click here". Because the film is a derrivative work of the comic. rst20xx 20:44, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, and I'm going to move it back. It's a standard on Wikipedia to give the original work the page. We don't disambiguate Sin City, or The Lord of the Rings, or Eragon, or anything else I can think of. The film is an offshoot of the comics, and so should be organized accordingly. Owen 23:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Why does this show up?[edit]

This text continues to show up and it does not appear in the edit page or under any area able to be edited.

  • "The person
V is a person I know haha she likes to kill people. Not sure why but what the hell we either  
call her V, Killiers or the spawn of satanmand/or chick that likes wrestling
Hello in jons strange voice She said if i don't make this longer she'll kill me
People that V has sacrificed

I'm pretty sure that shouldn't be there so if someone can take care of it, that'd be great. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.81.122.207 (talk) 17:47, 18 February 2007 (UTC).

OK, well that's kinda freaky...especially if it's true...but yeah, take it out. I would myself if I wasn't new here and I knew how to take out stuff that doesn't show up in the editor. x] --♥<color=fuchsia>HOLLiSTERiSLOVE</color> 13:27, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Minor characters need merging.[edit]

I was considering nominating articles like Valerie Page for deletion, but I figured I should suggest that they be merged into a character list first. If no action is taken for awhile though, I may still nominate it on a later date.--SeizureDog 11:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Binary example[edit]

The point '8' under 'The number 5, the letter V' is marked as requiring referrence but I think it do not requires such. Both facts are very well known:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_101
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_numeral_system#Representation

V and Anarchy[edit]

V's simple symbol of a V within a circle bears a great deal of similarity to the anarchy symbol, and both tend to be drawn sloppily. The V for Vendetta symbol already had complete anarchy before V came about after the nuclear war; he knew this. Arguably Evey's job after V quits is to prevent another imperialistic nation from arising from this mess.

  • That V symbol was similar to Anarchy does NOT imply that V was indeed an Anarchist, in fact I would like to ask this aumtion to be reconsidered, what do we have as proof to say that he claimed for Anarchy in specific? (User: Tauiris@public_computer)
  • The fact he says so in the comic, perhaps? Chapter 5, page 5. gz33 (talk) 12:19, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Someone needs to eliminate "vandalism" from first paragraph[edit]

There is a random and juvenile sentence edited into the introductory paragraph of this article, which I accessed for research purposes. I'm not familiar with how to edit Wikipedia articles yet and don't have time to figure it out right now. Maybe someone else can fix it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.9.39.242 (talkcontribs).

I took a look at the paragraph, but I didn’t notice any juvenile sentences. You can remove it yourself by clicking the edit this page button at the top of the article’s page, or you can point out the exact sentence so that I can remove it. Thanks. —LOL 05:50, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

A bit of a stretch[edit]

"Evey's name is composed of "E" (the fifth letter of the alphabet), "V" (5 in Roman numerals, and the fifth letter from the end of the alphabet), and "Y" (25th letter of the alphabet, or 5 squared)."

Does anyone think this is going a bit too far? Someone should watch the movie, recording every fifth word, and see what message appears.

This is about the book, not the movie. The two are quite different. (71.192.34.220 21:21, 14 June 2007 (UTC))

Unmentioned Themes[edit]

A number of the more important themes of the book are left out; namely those of terrorism and vigilantism. A large part of the book is questioning the morality of V's actions and the conclusion leaves the effectiveness of V's terrorism ambiguous, in that the cycle appears to repeat itself rather than ending fascism, though an opposite conclusion could be drawn. I would appear upon finishing the book that these are among the most important points of the story, and the real message Moore was attempting to get across. There should definitely be something added about this, I feel. Unfortunately, I currently lack the time to read the book and/or find legitimate sources to add this section. (71.192.34.220 21:21, 14 June 2007 (UTC))


There are also potent poetic and mythological themes in the book, one of which ia the love triangle. A woman with two lovers is recurring image, both literally e.g.Helen,Conrad and Ally, and symbolically e.g. V's speech to the statue of justice, in which V plays the part of a scorned lover and complains that Lady Justice has found a new lover who is cruel and sadistic. Adam Susan's reaction to the news that his beloved Fate has been hacked by V is again that of a scorned lover. Earlier Susan had said that although he was a virgin, Fate was his lover. This resonates with Celtic and other mythologies in which the land/nation is portrayed as a goddess and rulers as her lovers. Robert Graves explored these mythological themes in some detail in "The White Goddess".

The November 5th celebrations in England, while ostensibly about a Catholic terrorist, actually resemble a symbolic human sacrifice, and the date is close to the Celtic festival of Samhain.

In "This vicious Cabaret" V sings: "There's a policeman with an honest soul, who knows whose head is on the pole". The severed head of Guy Fawkes was displayed on a pole outside tower hill as food for the ravens. In the Mabinogion the severed singing head of Bran , (whose name means "raven") was taken to tower hill. This links Guy Fawkes to a sacrificial scapegoat tradition and the Celtic cult of the severed head. In his address to the nation, V presents himself as a Promethean figure. Later V sacrifices himself, while declaring his immortality, telling Finch "There's no flesh and blood behind this mask, only ideas. Ideas are bulletproof"Pignut (talk) 19:28, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Spoiler Alert?[edit]

Could someone please add a spoiler alert before the plot section, as it pretty much gives away the entire book? Thanks.


It'd be quite a crap plot section if it didn't... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.137.93.129 (talk) 18:50, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Added the list of references to External Links[edit]

I added Madelyn Boudreaux's "An Annotation of Literary, Historic, and Artistic References in Alan Moore's Graphic Novel, V For Vendetta" to the External links because it was information I had been looking for and I knew others were interested. I did check the page before I made this addition, but missed this article being listed as number 3 in "Notes and references" section. I decided it was still worthy of an External links entry and left it.

V is an idea now?[edit]

I know it's delightfully dramatic and all, but V is not an idea, he's a character and that's it. It's silly encyclopaedic prose, and us such, the sentence fragment, "More an idea than a character. . ." should be removed. Cheers. Liempt 20:08, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

V for Vendetta Template[edit]

I'm removing this template from all its articles:

Which, I agree, is fairly provocative. However, I don't see how "V for Vendetta" deserves this on its own, or what useful information it provides. Surely the links in the articles are sufficient? If people want to revert my changes, that's fine by me. But please reply to this post so we can get a discussion started. At the moment I see no reason why the template should exist. Maccy69 13:36, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I've reverted my previous edit and requested a template deletion instead, see below. Maccy69 17:39, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:V for Vendetta[edit]

Template:V for Vendetta has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Maccy69 17:39, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

The letter V in V's mask[edit]

The fact that V's mask has shapes which when looked at correctly appear to be V's, is coincidental, and unimportant. I will remove this section from the article unless reasons or citations that support keeping it are presented by the end of this month (Feb. 29th).Taboo Tongue (talk) 21:07, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Warrior19.jpg[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:Warrior19.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.


BetacommandBot (talk) 03:15, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Gunpowder Plot[edit]

This article would be more accurate if it just said: this plot IS the gunpowder plot, instead of just explaining coincidences. 172.165.195.80 (talk) 03:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Number 5 and letter V[edit]

If there are no objections, I'm thinking we should revert this entire section back to how it was when the article was a good article nominee. Any objections? (I don't plan to do this immediately, but do shout soon).

Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 04:23, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps look at incorporating parts of it into the article - for example "Background" should be "Publication history." I didn't like the way the plot in the previous version include a list of the 'chapters'.
I think the main problem is that the themes has expanded but referencing is poor, leaving it open to accusations of original research. For example:

In issue #8, the phase between fascism and anarchy is called Verwirrung, a German word meaning "confusion", but used here as reference to The Illuminatus! Trilogy (Book One of the trilogy is so titled). It also may be a direct reference to Discordian philosophy in general, as many other aspects of the series (chaos, the creative arts, anarchism, and the obsession with the number "5") draw similar parallels.

In a previous version I actually provide a quote from the Illuminatus Trilogy and a link to an annotations site (not the current site but the original one) which discussed the parallels (V also fits into the law of fives and 23 Enigma as the Victory V is two fingers up and 3 down, as are the devil's horns).
The version of the article you suggest reverting back to doesn't have a better sourced section and doesn't really seem to bring the article much closer to a GA. As far as I'm concerned nether version meets the B-class criteria for the Comics Project and it might be worth addressing the problems by working on this article but including any useful material from the older version (or removing any extraneous material that has been added). However, I may have missed the reason why the previous version is any great improvement over this one. (Emperor (talk) 10:42, 10 November 2008 (UTC))
My thinking was that the current format is prone to ever increasing additions (uncited, as you note) and subtle vandalism, and that prose-format might be more readable.
You're quite right, though - the section does need to be be far better referenced.
Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 18:30, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes lists are not only discouraged where prose is better, but they do indeed lower the bar making it easier for someone to jam one more factoid on the end (making them "dangerous" in such contexts. I'd support getting rid of the list - I'd heartily support the addition of references too ;) (Emperor (talk) 00:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC))

Why is there a lead comma in the genre field in the comic box?[edit]

Why is there a lead comma in the genre field in the comic box? Jason Quinn (talk) 14:27, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't know! It looks to me like it's an issue with the infobox - I left a message at the infoxbox's talk page asking for help.
Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 10:41, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
...and it's fixed. The solution is to use "first" instead of "y" for the first genre. Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 00:50, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Good work! Jason Quinn (talk) 14:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Heh! I wish I could claim the credit, but to be honest all I did was ask for help! Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 15:08, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Evey as a reference to "IV"?[edit]

I'm not quite sure about this as I'm not a native speaker of English, but when watching the film again a few days ago I thought that the name "Evey" is actually a reference to the roman numeral "IV". Could this be by intention and worth mentioning? Just wondering.

--Sloper (talk) 07:48, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

If it is mentioned in the film you could possibly mention it in the article about the film: V for Vendetta (film). This article is (mostly) about the original comic, though. Cheers, TFOWRThis flag once was red 08:33, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
It was actually not mentioned as such in the film. Only the acoustic ambiguity was evident to me when actually hearing the name spoken. Maybe I'm just wrong here, I'll leave for the community to decide.
--Sloper (talk) 07:58, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

DAB: "communion [wafer]" -> "Eucharist [wafer]"[edit]

I've disambiguated a few things (e.g. "David Lloyd" -> David Lloyd (comic artist)). One thing got me a wee bit, though - the text was "... communion wafer ..."; post-DABing (and with appropriate piping) it now reads "... [[Eucharist|communion]] wafer ...". I'm wondering if it would be better to do it like this: "... [[Sacramental bread|communion wafer]] ...". Thoughts? TFOWRpropaganda 12:36, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Unsourced Material[edit]

Article's been tagged for needing sourcing for over a year. Please feel free to re-incorporate this material, with proper sourcing. Doniago (talk) 20:53, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

cultural impact[edit]

The entry on the cultural impact needs to be extended. It mentions Anonymous and a couple of incidents of protests where the mask of V was used. This practice has become quite widespread, the mask of V is now seen in many protests around the world. One very notable example is the protests of the Spanish Revolution which started on the 15th of May 2011 with a mass demonstration. The mask of V was visible in many of the demonstrations around Spain, and one particular image became iconic; a photo of a V-masked protester holding a cardboard sign which reads (in English): "Nobody expects the #spanishrevolution." (possibly a reference to a Monty Python sketch: "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition."). This particular image has become quite an icon in the protest movement, and the V mask has become a staple of the protesters in the Spanish Revolution or the 15th of May movement seen in demonstrations as well as at the protest camps held in town centres across Spain.

http://boingboing.net/2011/05/17/nobody-expects-the-s.html http://www.redpepper.org.uk/nobody-expects-the-spanish-revolution/ http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/19/977371/-No-One-Expects-the-Spanish-Revolution

Sphere2012 (talk) 13:23, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

You should have a go at it! You've got the links (and probabably remember others that you came across), and a summary that works with them— you're good to go! Once you've whipped it into a paragraph, I authentically don't know whether its proper and precise place should be here in V_for_Vendetta#Cultural_impact or off in Gunpowder Plot in popular culture#Internet culture. My thin opinion is: here rather than there.
But if someone objects, they might delete it from that one place, which feels like your writing being mulched— but that's probably just your cue to move it elsewhere. (I don't think I've ever seen an editor say "this belongs elsewhere, so I'll move it- cut from here, paste into way over there". I'm guessing that it's because them throwing your paragraph into the other entry might look like they just wrote it right out of the blue; or they figure it's your biz, not theirs, to figure out a better place (altho they might give a hint). Like I say, that's not "this is crap and belongs nowhere", it's "he should put it elsewhere, he'll find where".) Putting aside the issue of the possibility of what seems like Somebody being dismissive of your hard work, I greatly encourage you to do a little writing, to fill what me and you both feel as a as a Notable gap. Your pal, —Sean M. Burke (talk) 01:55, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

A little bit of Batman, Zorro, Darkman, and Noh[edit]

Zo'Onna Noh mask.JPG







Civic Cat (talk) 19:00, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

maybe but the essay by Alan Moore that's also in the book (Behind the Painted Smile - ) says the mask was based on then current (when they started working on the strip - think somewhere there's an interview/feature that mentions the masks being common but quickly disappearing from newsagents etc. before the original run finished) Guy Fawkes masks sold for kids/use on the guys made for Guy Fawkes Night (traditional name for Bonfire Night) - used to be a (British) tradition of children making guys as well as the ones burnt on the bonfires and asking passers-by for a "penny for the guy".

Relevant quotes from Behind the Painted Smile (originally Warrior Magazine #17 1983, reprinted in the trade paperback.

Alan Moore quoting a letter from David Lloyd (page 272 in my copy - Vertigo edition US import bought new @2002) "...I was thinking why don't we portray him as a resurrected Guy Fawkes, complete with one of those paper mâché masks, in a cape and conical hat? He'd look really bizarre and it would give Guy Fawkes the image he's deserved all these years. We shouldn't burn the chap every Nov. 5th but celebrate his attempt to blow up Parliament!"

109.224.137.121 (talk) 23:22, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

David J[edit]

Somewhere there should be mention of David J and his EP which was designed as a soundtrack to the graphic novel. In particular the song "This Vicious Cabaret". -- Beardo (talk) 04:29, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Finch's Experience at Larkhill[edit]

Under the "Plot" section, it currently says "Finch travels to the abandoned site of Larkhill, where he takes LSD. His hallucinations show him his past life, where he was the lover of a black woman who was sent to the concentration camps for her race."

Reading my copy (page 212), I don't see any evidence for this claim; Finch is simply remembering all of the victims of the concentration camps. He addresses a plurality of people, and we even see dozens of them.

What do you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.83.248 (talk) 22:09, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Colour vs. Color[edit]

There is nothing wrong with using the spelling 'colour,' however it does make me question the target audience. A change to color should be considered if a majority of the readers of this article use the American/ sometimes-Canadian spelling. This goes for all of the alternate spellings in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.169.159.157 (talk) 01:02, 10 December 2014 (UTC)