Talk:Vancouver

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Film Industry Nickname?[edit]

I attempted to place a citation next to the claim about vancouver having a "film industry" nickname called "hollywood north". What exactly does this claim even pertain to, specifically the claim it is a "film industry" nickname? Which film industry the canadian film industry or the american one? which? It is very vague. The only citation it has is from an un-accessible book from the University of British Columbia.

I know many people who work in the american film industry and have never heard that term with regards to vancouver? Even clicking on the link to the main page it appears to reference a nickname for the entire Canadian film industry and toronto, as well as the fact that the vast majority of references there are from only canadian sources. I believe this sentence should be edited to detail it as a "canadian film industry nickname" at most. Wikispeaks (talk) 15:07, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, this is a bit of a hard argument to address. Firstly, sources are rightly the measure of how wide spread the term is and not so much the people you work with. So in regards to the term itself, most sources are Canadian, but plenty are not if you look through all the sources. For example, I did a quick search in foreign media and found this New York Times article, this Reuters India forward from the Canadian Reuters, this LA Times article, this Chicago Sun-Times article, this Chicago Tribune article etc. etc. Secondly, the name is a nickname used outside the industry as well as evident in a lot of regular mainstream news media. To change it to Canadian film industry term when most of the film industry is largely based on the American film industry would be inaccurate and not supported by many sources. Mkdwtalk 22:51, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Well firstly in the sources you provided they seem to make no mention specifically of Vancouver and simply reference Canada as a whole. That does little to further you're argument that Vancouver the city is known by the "industry" nickname Hollywood north. At most you can say film production in canada in general is known as "hollywood north". Not to mention this seems mostly a media driven nickname not an actual film industry one. To try to pertain that this is some city-nickname doted upon the city by the US film industry still rings false. At most this is A) a purely canadian nickname for the city B) A nickname the city has embraced itself. From the Hollywood North Article itself there is no consensus as to what it even pertains too either canada, toronto, vancouver? If the article itself can't even decide who should posses the nickname, how exactly does that support the assertion it is an industry nickname? The passage is misleading leading the reader to assume hollywood itself has given Vancouver such a nickname when there is no evidence for such. Wikispeaks (talk) 07:10, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

YOur repetitive insertion of the dubious template is becoming an edit war; read the debates on Talk:Hollywood North....the rebranding of the whole Canadian film industry is a media creation, the term originated in Vancouver because of its close airtimes to the actual HOllywood an the greater number of American-oriented/based productions.......it began as a film industry reference to Vancouver, from there the Toronto-centric Canadian film industry liked the term and hijacked the concept and tried to make it about Toronto. Halifax's film industry, by the way, is Haliwood. The ongoing campaign by supporters of the actual Hollywood, California has included attempts to blur the meaning of Hollywood North even more, claiming it applies even to Santa Barbara and San Francisco and to downplay Vancouver's importance and the origin of the term. To me, you are just more of the same; the cites you are demanding and the accompanying debates which prevented that article fomr being hijacked and/or deleted are on Talk:Hollywood North. Please do not add the dubious tag again, as your own motives are somewhat dubious....and you are causing an WP:Edit war.Skookum1 (talk) 07:38, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Your line "the industry has given itself" is indeed the case.....because those who coined the name were Americans working on set in Vancouver, and why there were even magazines (started by industry people) using this term; "the industry" in Vancouver is rife with Americans; and it applies to their social circle, too, e.g. clubs and restaurants they frequent. This is not something "Vancouver created for itself", it's an organic term that arose from within the film community. I know, I worked in that film community when all this began and have watched the term's meaning and use spread from there. You sound like someone assigned to go after this term and challenge/question it......Skookum1 (talk) 07:42, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
It appears we're arguing two different points. My initial reply was in response to your argument that no one in America uses the term which my sources show as false. If you feel there is a lack of evidence showing Vancouver as Hollywood North, that's a completely different discussion in which there are literally hundreds of sources. Mkdwtalk 19:35, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
I have added two sources that explicitly name Vancouver as Hollywood North, both are non-Canadian, and reputable sources. Any disagreement must be equally countered with equally reliable and independent sources and not original research or synthesis. Mkdwtalk 19:44, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Just saw this - replaced sources with scholarly publication - as for the statement "In 2008 more than 260 productions were filmed in Vancouver, making it the third-largest film centre in North America - after Los Angeles and New York City - and second only to Los Angeles in television production in the world" ,,,, This does not seem correct as per Princeton University Press.Moxy (talk) 20:10, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
According to the Princeton source it was published in 2005. I know BC had a massive boom in 2007, but having some 2013 numbers seems preferable as I'm sure that statement is no longer accurate. Mkdwtalk 20:23, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

My issue relates to the characterization of it as a "film industry" nickname. With the insinuation it was a nickname bestowed upon by the city by a particular film industry. I'm not doubting that nickname exists but as i've mentioned to me it is more of a "media nickname" than an actual nickname used in the film industry. I have yet to see any sources provided to back the claim it is indeed an authentic nickname used within the film industry. The onus lies on that to be proved not to argue how it can be disproved. So as it stands I find the the passage somewhat misleading. Wikispeaks (talk) 00:38, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

ps. It appears the majority of people who are engaging me in debate here are also major contributors to the actual Hollywood North article and may have some vested biases. I'd appreciate it if we can get some other thoughts and opinions here? Wikispeaks (talk) 00:41, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Never seen that article - Moxy (talk) 16:20, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
What about your vested interests? Why is your usercontributions focussed on this issue? My "vested interests" would be from being a Vancouverite for most of my life, and an eyewitness to the growth of the film industry in Vancouver (which I no longer work in, and was only low-level e.g. bit-part actor, background; when the term originated I worked as editor for a small start-up magazine about the industry that's gone now). The "media nickname" accusation is of course to do with the local film industry being closely tied to the industry and the existence of film-media publications such as Hollywood North Reports. Previous attacks on this term came from a loyalist of the California film industry who seemed to be at war with the term "Hollywood North", challenging its legitimacy.....and you sound just the same. There's some sour grapes in your activities and your arguments; much ado about nothing, or actually about a common and well-established term. Oh "Metro Vancouver" is a media nickname for the GVRD, too, like "Metro" and "Vancity"......."the onus lies on that to be proved not to argue about how it can be disproved" is a nice blanket way of saying "even if you prove I'm wrong you can't prove you're right". But WP:MOSFOLLOW and WP:COMMONNAME applies, the term exists and had staying power. Doesn't matter whether you can disprove its legitimacy or not - because you wash your hands of proving that it doesn't have a right to be used.....which is really what you're saying. So out with it - what are YOUR "vested interests"? Why your one-editor campaign against this term. Whose interests do you represent....and don't claim you're an innocent bystander who's decided this is some kind of worthy cause.Skookum1 (talk) 03:56, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
PS how's the weather in LA these days?Skookum1 (talk) 03:58, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Wikispeaks, the sources we have provided ARE other opinions. So far you have only presented your own and nothing in reliable third party sources that support your claims. Mkdwtalk 17:26, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Weak claim - Vancouver is the 4th largest producer of films in Canada. Saying it's "one of the largest producers of films" is kind of grasping. Would 5th largest be worth bragging about? Classically only the top 3 are worthy of mentioning in any category, especially with the lack of large cities in Canada. Vancouver is the 3rd largest metro region and isn't even 3rd largest producer of movies. Weak. I really think this is one of those things that only Vancouverites say. Part of the confusion might be because people think Lionsgate is still Vancouver based, and they produce a lot of Hollywood movies. But they moved to the States long ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.32.139.142 (talk) 02:50, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Arts and Culture: Music and nightlife[edit]

I suggest making two sections out of this. "Music" and "Nightlife" are two different topics. I continue to change the list of composers to include a) more women, and b) more accurate information about the composers. "Alexina Louie" has not lived in Vancouver since 1980 (according to Wikipedia), and Jocelyn Morlock is a Vancouver-based composer since the mid-1990s who continues to exemplify the Vancouver sound...Runner ups include Jordan Nobles, Stephen Chatman, Keith Hamel, and John Oliver. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tysonwiki (talkcontribs)

Barry Truax, Randy Raine-Reusch, Barbara Pentland, Elliott Weisgerber (Elliot Weisgerber?), and Murray Schafer come to mind also.Skookum1 (talk) 04:35, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
And yes, the music and nightlife sections shoudl be separated, and maybe classical music from the rest too.Skookum1 (talk) 09:02, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

UBC in photo in infobox[edit]

I mentioned this a few years ago but it got no traction. The photo in the infobox features, among other things a picture of UBC and the endowment lands. UBC is not strictly speaking in Vancouver. It would be a bit like putting in a photo of SFU (in Burnaby) or Steveston (in Richmond). From a larger view, sure, they are in Metro Vancouver. This article, however, is not about Metro Vancouver but the city proper. The photo needs to change, I think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mingmingla (talkcontribs) 18:27, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

If you make an alternate collage we can poll the editors about it. Mkdwtalk 18:43, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
I would like to, but I'm afraid I lack the skills. Mingmingla (talk) 01:56, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Date format[edit]

JimWae recent changed the dates to MDY. This discussion occurs every couple of years -- and generally because JimWae makes the mass change and someone probably like me reverts it and asks for a discussion. I know he's worked very hard to get all the Canadian articles to go in line with the American style format. The last two discussions, Talk:Vancouver/Archive_8#Date_Format and Talk:Vancouver/Archive_9#Comma_after_year_in_full_MDY_dates ended in stalemate or consensus for the British format. Essentially Canadian articles have the choice between the American and the British format. It's not the end of the world to use either and since JimWae has changed most of the other Canadian formats to the American it has it's merits. I still think a new consensus should be found rather than outright making the change even though this consensus has been done against them in the past. I feel like then it won't feel as pushy from both sides. 15:44, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Sister Cities[edit]

NightShadow23, it's great that you have this information about Vancouver and Sochi maybe becoming sister cities in the future, but we should not say in this Wikipedia article that they are sister cities until they are in fact sister cities. The reference you provided only states that they are currently evaluating an agreement to possibly become sister cities in the future. This also means that they may not become sister cities at all. If we say that they are already sister cities, it is factually incorrect. Keep your eye on this situation and only add the information back into the article once it becomes official.Air.light (talk) 06:44, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

The problem I see with this is that there is no information about this sister city arrangement anywhere on the internet that I could find, in English, in Canada. The one website you have mustered apparently says that there is an agreement but to me it seems quite sketchy to say that it is sufficient "proof" of this supposed agreement. Why is there no mention of this in Canada? Was Canada and Vancouver not made aware of this agreement? To have something like this in the Wikipedia article for Vancouver, it should have a little more evidence supporting it. I do not want to get into an edit war with you so I will not continue to remove it just to have you keep on putting it back up.

What do others think?Air.light (talk) 09:41, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Air.light & NightShadow23: my name is Jhenifer Pabillano and I'm the social media strategist for the City of Vancouver. I'd like to clarify that the City's protocol office has confirmed that we are NOT sister cities with Seoul, Korea and Sochi, Russia, and we would like to see them removed from the Sister Cities section. The City only has 5 sister cities and we haven’t entered into a sister city agreement since 1985. It is very confusing for cities who have made a sister-city request to think that we have two new ones.

I'm new to Wikipedia so let me know if any more info is needed. Thanks! Jhenifer (talk) 17:42, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

@Jhenifer: Thank you for helping to contribute to Wikipedia. It is very difficult to authenticate your identity here but there does not seem to be any readily available information from the City of Vancouver on the issue (e.g. website or press release). I will go ahead and remove the two sister cities from the listing as they have yet to be verified. The gokuban.ru references used for Sochi are actually available in English as well at http://www.gokuban.com/activity/blood-brothers/ where it does not list Vancouver for Sochi. Mkdwtalk 18:57, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
@Mkdw: Thanks for the clarification. The last major public mention of sister cities is in an administrative report from 2008, which lists our existing sister cities and the moratorium placed in the 1980s. Sochi and Seoul are not included. It is already linked as reference 200 on the Vancouver Wikipedia page: http://former.vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20080311/documents/a14.pdf
To verify my identity, you can check out the directory/org chart on the City's website, where I am listed as the City's social media strategist: http://app.vancouver.ca/QFOrgChart_net/default.aspx?id=585
The main page for the City's directory is also here: http://app.vancouver.ca/qf_net/Default.aspx
Let me know if you need anything more!
Jhenifer (talk) 21:16, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
@Jhenifer: Thank you for providing those links. The biggest challenge for us is to verify who actually operates the Wikipedia account User:Jhenifer. While most people are honest, sometimes people make claims, even with links on their Wikipedia userpages claiming to be someone or a person who represents a company, but in fact do not end up being connected. If you really wanted to assert your connection to your Wikipedia account, the best form of 'proof' would be on your City of Vancouver profile to state or provide a link to your Wikipedia account. That provides a two way authentication. That being said, I do not think you need to do that necessarily. There are also quite a few reasons why you may not want to do that. Paid editing and conflict of interest (and even conflict of influence) are considered a very controversial issues and the City may want to avoid it. While you may not break the 'rules' around it, it may become something that draws public attention and sometimes criticism. I don't mean to scare you off with it, but it's definitely something you should be aware when you make the choice on how to best proceed. The Wikimedia Foundation does have a system that allows people and companies to address concerns and issues they find on Wikipedia through a ticket system called WP:OTRS. The system is quite flexible and can handle a great number of things. It may be one venue the City may want to explore in the future. In any regard, welcome to Wikipedia and you, yourself, as a person are always welcome to edit Wikipedia and the talk page for articles about the City are definitely a good practice to continue knowing your affiliations. Cheers, Mkdwtalk 21:51, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
@Mkdw: Got it. Well, I can't do that for vancouver.ca but I have edited my userpage and put a link up on my personal website to verify my identity if that helps.
* http://pabillano.com/about/
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jhenifer
Your guidance is very much appreciated btw! I don't mind verifying. I very infrequently edit Wikipedia and am very conscious of conflict of influence. Hopefully this identity verification will help more clearly outline my commitment to transparency and good behaviour. :)
Jhenifer (talk) 15:35, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

London[edit]

I think there is a wrong London link in the first section. Is another London (one in Canada) meant? Someone should correct it, I dont know which London is meant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.212.93.223 (talk) 23:55, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

The right London is being linked. The one in the UK. Mkdwtalk 00:28, 20 May 2014 (UTC)