Talk:Vatican Library

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Oldest Nearly Complete Bible?[edit]

What about the aleppo codex (was complete until '47) and the Leningrad codex? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Binyamin Goldstein (talkcontribs) 20:05, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Sealed off library since 1215[edit]

This text seems to circulate on the web:

"The Vatican has a 5,000 square foot library that was sealed in 1215, with specific instructions that it was not to be opened until February 19, 2010."

I abstain from putting it in the article body since I cannot corroborate its veracity. If anyone knows more about this it would be most interesting though. --meco 16:38, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like utter myth. 1215 was the Lateran period when the books were kept in the Lateran palace. I seriously doubt they even had 5000sqft of books in 1215 and if they did they would be worth such a fortune that no one would lock them away. -- Stbalbach 16:46, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Link[edit]

I have added a link to the treasures of the library of Vatican City. The library shows these treasures via The European Library. For all clarity - Vatican City is a so-called basic participant of The European Library. Please let me know if you think this link is inappropriate. Thank you. Fleurstigter 11:19, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

St. Louis Vatican Film Library - research help available[edit]

The Knights of Columbus maintain a microfilm archive of the majority of the works in the Vatican Library. To my knowledge, this microfilm database (maintained at the Saint Louis University Pius library), is the only such "outside the Vatican" collection. As I live in St. Louis, if any other Wikipedians reading this would like access to any of those documents, please feel free to contact me directly, and I'll go look something up if you want.  :) --Elonka 04:20, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Wrong name[edit]

Under WP:COMMON the move just performed is clearly wrong. "Vatican Library" has about 159,000 ghits versus 4,870 for "Apostolic Library", most of which (2,840) are actually for "Vatican Apostolic Library", the literal rendering of the Latin official title. Many others are for an American Evangelical website called the "Apostolic Library". Their own English web homepage uses "Vatican Library". Johnbod (talk) 20:10, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the move to "Apostolic Library" was inappropriate. The clear common name for this topic is "Vatican Library". If anyone disagrees, they can file a request at WP:RM. --Elonka 18:59, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
The name of this article should be at least 'Vatican Apostolic Library', since 'Vatican Library' is only an informal designation. Ausonia (talk) 22:15, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
Per WP:COMMONNAME, we choose article titles based on what the general public would most easily recognize. However, alternative versions of the name can (and should) be placed in the article lead paragraph. --Elonka 05:50, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
It is formal enough for they themselves, and every scholarly source, to use it. Only badly-translated Italian tourist copy uses anything else. Johnbod (talk) 03:56, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

New Yorker article[edit]

There's an article about the Vatican Library in the New Yorker. Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 03:05, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Good sources for improvements[edit]

I am starting a small collection of pages that can be mined for content. I am categorizing them somewhat loosely:

Any other good sources are welcome. --NickPenguin(contribs) 05:09, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

I had aggregated some materials too, more about the museums but it's not clear cut. You can ask for the restricted stuff.

Mintzer, F.C.; L. E. Boyle, A.N. Cazes, B. S. Christian, S. C. Cox, F. P. Giordano, H.M. Gladney, J. C. Lee, M. L. Kelmanson, A. C. Lirani, K.A. Magerlein, A. M B Pavani, F. Schiattarella (1996-03). "Toward on-line, worldwide access to Vatican Library materials". IBM Journal of Research and Development 40 (2): 139–162. doi:10.1147/rd.402.0139. ISSN 0018-8646.  Check date values in: |date= (help)

IEEE Xplore Abstract Record, retrieved 2014-03-21 

"LexisNexis® Academic & Library Solutions". Retrieved 2014-03-21. 

LexisNexis® Academic & Library Solutions, retrieved 2014-03-21 

Gianesi, Cecília. "Splendours of the Vatican". Time Out São Paulo. Retrieved 2014-01-15. 

Snapshot, retrieved 2014-01-15 

"Vatican Splendors almost sets attendance record". St. Louis Public Radio. 2010-10-14. Retrieved 2014-01-15. 

Snapshot, retrieved 2014-01-15 

mappa_musei_vaticani.pdf, retrieved 2013-12-05 

mappa_musei_vaticani.pdf, retrieved 2013-12-05 

Hakewill, James, Plan of the Museum of the Vatican, Rome / A Picturesque Tour of Italy, retrieved 2013-12-26 

"Introduction (Rome Reborn: The Vatican Library & Renaissance Culture)". Retrieved 2013-12-22. 

Introduction (Rome Reborn: The Vatican Library & Renaissance Culture), retrieved 2013-12-22 

Tempesta, Antonio (1593), vlib03a.jpg (JPEG Image, 500 × 647 pixels), retrieved 2013-12-21 

vlib03a.jpg (JPEG Image, 500 × 647 pixels), retrieved 2013-12-21 

"The Vatican Library (Rome Reborn: The Vatican Library & Renaissance Culture)". Retrieved 2013-12-21. 

The Vatican Library (Rome Reborn: The Vatican Library & Renaissance Culture), retrieved 2013-12-21 

Clark, John Willis. On the Vatican Library of Sixtus IV. Retrieved 2013-12-21. 

Wikisource Snapshot, retrieved 2013-12-21 

laterza, Pubblicato da maria. "Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana". Tutt'Art@. Retrieved 2013-12-19.  Text " Pittura * Scultura * Poesia * Musica " ignored (help)

Snapshot, retrieved 2013-12-19 

View of the Belvedere Gardens in the Papal Palace, Vatican (litho)byRossi, Giovanni Domenico de' (1619-1653) (attr. to) - Bridgeman Art Library - art images & historical footage for licensing, retrieved 2013-12-17 

Snapshot, retrieved 2013-12-17 

"Roma, archivi e.. dintorni: Cristina di Svezia nelle stanze del Palazzo vaticano, dicembre 1655.". Retrieved 2013-12-17. 

Roma, archivi e.. dintorni: Cristina di Svezia nelle stanze del Palazzo vaticano, dicembre 1655., retrieved 2013-12-17 

Speculum Romanae Magnificentiae / Dissigno del Torneamento fatto il lune di Carnovale in Roma nel Theatro Vaticano, retrieved 2013-12-17 

Snapshot, retrieved 2013-12-17 

"Collections of Vatican Museum - a set on Flickr". Retrieved 2013-12-14. 

Collections of Vatican Museum - a set on Flickr, retrieved 2013-12-14 

"Rome - Walking 14". Retrieved 2013-12-06. 

Musei Vaticani, retrieved 2013-12-06 

MuseiVaticani.jpg (JPEG Image, 1211 × 982 pixels), retrieved 2013-12-06 

Rea, Carolina (2013-09-26). "New Illumination in the Ancient Vatican Library". The Patrons of the Arts. Retrieved 2013-12-06. 

Snapshot, retrieved 2013-12-06 

Mendelsohn, Daniel (2011-01-03). "God's Librarians". The New Yorker 86 (42). p. 24. ISSN 0028-792X. Retrieved 2013-12-05. 

Vian, Nello; Louis A. Ruprecht Jr. (2008-01-01). "Winckelmann at the Vatican Library". Arion 15 (3): 165–184. ISSN 0095-5809. JSTOR 29737368. Retrieved 2013-12-02. 

Metropolitan Museum of Art (New York, N.Y.), Art Institute of Chicago; Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco (1982). The Vatican collections: the papacy and art. New York: Metropolitan Museum of Art : H.N. Abrams. ISBN 0870993216 9780870993213 0870993208 9780870993206 0810917106 9780810917101 Check |isbn= value (help). 

The_Vatican_Collections_The_Papacy_and_Art.pdf, retrieved 2013-11-23 

Conca, Tommaso Maria (1782), Study for "The Triumph of Apollo" for the Ceiling of the Sala delle Muse, Museo Pio-Clementino, Vatican, retrieved 2013-11-22 

Conca, Tommaso (1782), Français : "Apollon et les Muses"., retrieved 2013-11-22 

Conca, Tommaso Maria (2012-08-04), Sala delle Muse, Museo Pio-Clementino, Vatican City, retrieved 2013-11-22 

Sala delle Muse, Museo Pio-Clementino, Vatican City, retrieved 2013-11-22 

"Pio Clementino Museum". Retrieved 2013-11-22. 

Pio Clementino Museum, retrieved 2013-11-22 

"ROME UNDER SIXTUS V.". Retrieved 2013-12-14. 

Salle des Papyrus, retrieved 2013-12-07 

"Rome - Walking 14". Retrieved 2013-12-06. 

Quynn, Dorothy Mackay (1945-04-01). "The Art Confiscations of the Napoleonic Wars". The American Historical Review 50 (3): 437–460. doi:10.2307/1843116. ISSN 0002-8762. JSTOR 1843116. Retrieved 2013-12-02. 

Johns, Christopher M. S. (1988-10-01). "Papal Patronage and Cultural Bureaucracy in Eighteenth-Century Rome: Clement XI and the Accademia di San Luca". Eighteenth-Century Studies 22 (1): 1–23. doi:10.2307/2738751. ISSN 0013-2586. JSTOR 2738751. Retrieved 2013-12-02. 

Lembus, Laura (2007). "From Kings to Corporate Executives: The Evolution of the Art Museum in the Modern World". Retrieved 2013-12-02. 

Clark, Anthony M. (1966-12-01). "The Development of the Collections and Museums of 18th Century Rome". Art Journal 26 (2): 136–143. doi:10.2307/775037. ISSN 0004-3249. JSTOR 775037. Retrieved 2013-12-02. 

Memorie per le belle arti. Stamperia Pagliarini. 1785. 

"history of museums (museum) :: Public collections". Encyclopedia Britannica. Retrieved 2013-11-22. 

Conca, Tommaso Maria (2012-08-04), Sala delle Muse, Museo Pio-Clementino, Vatican City, retrieved 2013-11-22 

"Pio Clementino Museum". Retrieved 2013-11-22. 

And some more old building plans

Noua pianta del conclaue fatta in sede vacante di Papa Clemente IX per l'elettione del nuouo pont. có la situatione e celle dell emmi. sigri. cardinali e cirimonie fatte in simili ellettione sede ann. 2 mesi 5 e giorni 19 entrorono in conclaue li em. sig., retrieved 2013-12-19 

Nuoua et essatta pianta del conclaue con le funtioni e ceremonie per l'elettione del nuouo pontefice fatto nella sede vacante di Papa Clemente IX che sede anni II mesi V giorni XIX nel quale entrorno ... cardinali a di XX Decembre MDCLXIX [graphic] / dise, retrieved 2013-12-19 

Nuoua et essatta pianta del conclaue fatto in sede vacante di Papa Clemente X che sede anni VI, mesi II, giorni XXIIII, [sic] per l'elettione del nuouo pontefice nel quale entrorno l'emmi sigrl. cardinali a di II Agosto MDCLXXVI [graphic] / Gio. Batista F, retrieved 2013-12-19 

Image gallery: Vero dissegno degli stupendi edifitii giardini boschi fontane et cose meravegliose di Belvedere in Roma, retrieved 2013-12-17 

Descrizione del Palazzo Apostolico Vaticano, 1750 

Have fun. trespassers william (talk) 12:58, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

American Libraries, Dec 1999, V.30, #11, p.70 “Inventoried Treasures: The Vatican Archives Revealed”, by Jay Jackson.

Begni, Ernesto, ‘The Vatican Its History Its Treasures’, Letters and Arts Publishing Co. New York, 1914.

Blouin, Francis X., Jr., ‘Vatican Archives’, New York Oxford University Press, 1998.

Dubois, Ronald, “A Tour of the Vatican Museums”, Video, Vistar Productions, 1983.

Grafton, Anthony, ‘Rome Reborn’, Library of Congress, Yale University Press, 1993.

New York Times 10/28/99 V.149, #51689 p.B13.

Orcutt, William Dana, ‘The Magic of the Book, More Reminiscences and Adventures of a Bookman’, Published Mcmxxx, Boston, Little, Brown & Company, 1930

Tisserant, Monsignor Eugene and Koch, Theodore Wesley, ‘The Vatican Library’, Snead and Company, Jersey City, New Jersey, U.S.A., 1929.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15286a.htm Another source, including details on history and collections. CSJJ104 (talk) 10:34, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Note in Italian[edit]

I have just created a new section in the article: "Notes" intended to split up a long reference so quotes can be listed separately. The note about the statue though would be much improved if anyone has access to the full English version of the source referenced by the original Editor of the source, or if they are able to provide a translation. I am unsure of the policy on editors translating work, or I would provide a link here for reference. CSJJ104 (talk) 22:07, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Some ambiguity in sources[edit]

There seems to be some ambiguity about certain facts. Firts of all, when the library was exactly established; there have been several dates thrown around, and I have sourced on that I found. Also, who the first, or just earliest, librarians are. There seems to be some cloudiness between the "director of the library", "librarian" and "Cardinal librarian", these may not all the synonyms.

Also, the idea for the library seems to be regarded as Pope Nicholas V, but the actual founding of a public Library at the Vatican was done by Sixtus IV. SOme clarity here should be established. --NickPenguin(contribs) 18:52, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Thefts section[edit]

Is this really notable enough to warrant a whole section? As it stands it could possibly be included in the History section, unless there are more details I am missing about the event, or there are more notable thefts which may be included? CSJJ104 (talk) 21:14, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Sure, it can be integrated into the history section. --NickPenguin(contribs) 16:24, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Article reads kind of disjointed[edit]

Reading over the content, there are lots of facts, but they don't flow together very nicely. There needs to be some meat to stitch together all these facts to make it a more pleasant read. --NickPenguin(contribs) 16:26, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

I agree. And the sections librarians and staff should be joined into one section. At the end of the article maybe, so we cdon't have a huge table in the middle of the text? --Melody Lavender (talk) 16:35, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
It's starting to look better already. Thanks @Melody Lavender:. --NickPenguin(contribs) 18:18, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Manuscripts list[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was to not split. A category link was added. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 10:30, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

The Manuscripts section list could be significantly expanded to cover more entries in the corresponding category. If someone's up for it, it could be split into its own article: List of manuscripts in the Vatican Library. This could be modeled after List of manuscripts in the Cotton library. I've placed a split template to inform editors of such a possibility. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 22:47, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Agree with this suggestion, but have no experience or knowledge in creating lists. Do we think this article benefit from some a shorter list remaining, or is a link in the See also section enough? CSJJ104 (talk) 23:43, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Per WP:NOTCATALOG I have some doubts about the Cotton library list article. It was listed for speedy deletion immediately after creation and only kept because a more formal deletion process, AfD, was suggested - this never happened though. Very likely because this article doesn't get a lot of attention: it gets only about 5 page views on most days. So whoever wants to create a corresponding article for the manuscripts in the Vatican library should be aware that it might be deleted. I believe there should be more articles rather than less on Wikipedia, so I would not vote for the deletion, but I am not sure it would survive. There is already a category, and it might be better to add the category to all the manuscripts listed here.--Melody Lavender (talk) 06:09, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
In the long run that would probably be advisable, this subject has a lot of material to expand the article. At this particular point in time, I am not sure it would be necessary. --NickPenguin(contribs) 06:40, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.