Talk:Vimaladharmasuriya I of Kandy

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Untitled[edit]

e mail sent to permissions-en@wikimedia.org--Bebadda (talk) 21:45, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Years[edit]

Resolved

If I read the first sentence of the article correctly, he was born in 1592 and died in 1604. This would mean that he married at the age of 2 (in 1594) and died at the age of 12. Or did he reign from 1592 to 1604? If so, the article should be clarified accordingly. AecisBrievenbus 22:03, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Obviously it is wrong that is his rulership. he died in 1604. I changed it Taprobanus (talk) 22:05, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
The above comment by Aecis is confusing. 1592 to 1604 are the years of his reign and is consistent with your other sites. For example look at the kings listed in Jaffna Kingdom. The years are not birth to death, but years of reign. The same applies to kings of Sri Lanka. Look at the list of Chola kings in Chola dynasty. They are all years of reign.In this region the emphasis is not on Birth and Death, but years of reign.the recording of birth and death is a christian thing, done by the church. It is not found in other parts of the world. Even today, many in Pakistan, Afghanistan etc do not know their date of birth, as there is little emphasis on birth and death culturally. Birth and death of Sri lankan rulers were not recoreded by Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka in the same context as the Christian church. Aecis above is trying to visualise and judge non Christian history with Christian bias by emphasizing Birth and death. Therefore I would suggest that in the non christian world, historical birth dates on your site are not very reliable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bebadda (talkcontribs) 06:58, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Solved your problem by adding a succession box, don’t look at Chola articles for example of how to write good quality articles on South Asian history. Look at Karnataka related articles, they are the best. I have the link in your talk pageTaprobanus (talk) 15:14, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Bebadda, let me explain why I asked what I asked above. As outlined in Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies), the lead section/opening paragraph of an article should contain:
For examples of this, see biographies of other persons throughout Wikipedia. If a year is given directly after the name of the person, it should always be the year of birth, and, if appropriate, the year of death. The years of reign of a person should be mentioned elsewhere in the article. So if this article starts with "Vimaladharmasuriya I (1592-1604)", it is normal to assume that this means year of birth and year of death. This has nothing to do with any sort of bias. I can understand that you are not happy that I nominated the original version of this article for speedy deletion, but please calm down and assume good faith. Nothing I have done so far, and nothing I will do, is aimed at you. Please do not take what I do personally. AecisBrievenbus 19:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to explain. I was born in the East and lived my entire adult life in the west so I understand your square, But I hope you understood my circle, that the recording of birth and death is a Christian thing. In the non Christian world, these dates had no cultural importance and as a result, the dates you carry in your web site as birth or death are less reliable in respect of non Christian subjects, who make up most of the world. This is especially so in relation to historical figures. The rules of your web site has obviously been made up by western christians and it is administered by christians and trying to force a square into a circle creates problems, but I suppose its your baby. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bebadda (talkcontribs) 02:47, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I want to correct you on that. The relevant guideline was established by the Wikipedia community, and many Wikipedians are non-Christian and/or non-Western. It was believed that this particular set-up would be most intuitive to English language readers. What would have been in accordance with the guideline in this particular case, would have been for the first sentence to state: "Vimaladharmasuriya I (reigned 1592-1604) ..." AecisBrievenbus 12:41, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree that would resolve the issue in this instance, But I wonder how consistently this is applied. --Bebadda (talk) 17:09, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to be a pain, but your succession box is inaccurate. This might help.

Rulers of kandy;

  • Jayaweera Bandãra, accepted baptism as Dom Manoel, March 9, 1546, as part of alliance with Portugal for protection from Mayadunne of Sitawaka
  • Karalliyaddë Bandãra (baptized as Dom Joao) - father of Dona catherina
  • Kandy conquered by King Rãjasimha I of Sitawake, 1582
  • Rebellion by Kandyans regains independence from Sitawaka, 1592
  • Dom Filipe Yamasimha 1592, nephew of Karalliyadde Bandara, installed by Portuguese, died of suspected poisoning by his general Konnapu Bandara (Vimaladharmasuriya I)
  • Dom João, 12-year-old son of Yamasimha, - throne usurped by his general Konnapu Bandara (Dom Joao da Austria) as Vimaladharmasuriya I; later ordained a Catholic priest, lived & died at Telheiras near Lisbon, 1642 at the age of 64 - He built the famous church in Telheiras, Lisbon, Portugal, which can still be seen today.
  • Dona Catarina, daughter of Karalliyadde Bandara, defeated and captured by Konnapu Bandara, October 9, 1594, Battle of Danturë, and forcibly made his 'queen'; she remained Catholic till her death

So in your succession box, before Vimaladharmasuriya was Dom Joao (12 year old son of Dom Philip (Yamasimha bandara) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bebadda (talkcontribs) 16:54, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Taprobanus (talk) 17:20, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

king by marrying[edit]

Your stub states that he became king by marrying. This is inaccurate. When Dona Catherina was placed on the throne by the portuguese in Kandy, Vimaladharmasuriya had already been crowned and had defended his kingdom in battle against Sitavaka Rajasimha who challenged him. read my article which was deleted.By marrying dona catherina, he did not become king, but underpinned his position. All portuguese and dutch publications refer to Vimaladharmasuriya as Emperor. Refer to the 1602 caption at the bottom of the picture, which states Maharaja. Raja is king, Maharaja is Emperor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bebadda (talkcontribs) 07:43, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Please update it to reflect what ever citations that you are using agrees with. Thanks Taprobanus (talk) 17:13, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

The article I wrote covers all these issues, if not in detail in a subtle manner. It is because of all these problems that it took me several years to fully understand all the complexities and arrive at the article. Your editors removed it saying it was breaching copyright, when it was not. I was asked to send an e-mail allowing its use and I did, then I have now being asked to donate it? I need a degree to be able to jump through all the hoops on your web site. I am not going to write the article again for it to be deleted again by someone else. You can restore the deleted article and use it. If it is challenged for facts, I will respond. --Bebadda (talk) 04:07, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I will try to update the article in the coming days as I need spend some time with a local conference. But dont give up on wikipedia. When I started no one mentored me but you are getting coached by three people, but dont get upset with them as non of them own this site and are volunteers like you who want to increase the cites information content. This site is owned by Wikipedia foundation a non profit organization. What ever you write here is completely free to be copied by anyone that's whay they are asking you to donate the contents, once you donate it is not yours at all. So that you know. Thanks Taprobanus (talk) 22:13, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

catholic[edit]

Your stub states that he renounced Catholicism and became a buddhist. There is no evidence to support this. This is what most Sinhalese buddhists believe, but one must be careful because many Sri Lankan rulers have been Hindu or Catholic, but patronized Buddhism for political convenience. It must be noted that although Sinhalese popularly want to make Vimaladharmasuriya their Sinhala buddhist champion, the Emperor himself allowed Portuguese Catholic priests to remain in Kandy and they were responsible for educating his children. I am a Sinhalese buddhist, and not a Catholic, but on balance of probabilities, I would say that it is misleading to determine that he renounced Catholicism in favour of Buddhism. Also note that his children were baptized. Kumarasimha was baptized Xaviar Kumara Banda. See The historic tragedy of the island of Ceilão (html). João Ribeiro.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bebadda (talkcontribs) 07:37, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Dude, we don’t have many Sinhalese like you in Wikipedia that's why I am spending this much time trying to get you to become a proper wikipedia contributor and make our countries history written properly. So if you have a citation that supports your point of view you can add That monarch Vimaladharmasuriya I (we avoid epithets like Emperor and Kings because this is an encyclopedia and we can always find someone questioning it. Aryacakravartis called them as Emperors too, but how many will believe it even if Rajavaliya says so ?) is claimed to have renounced his Catholic faith (you cite what ever says that) but during his rule Catholic missionaries were allowed to function within the kingdom and his children were educated by Catholic missionaries (you provide the citation).This is how you write a balanced sentence following WP:NPOV in Wikipedia Taprobanus (talk) 17:12, 9 January 2008 (UTC)