Talk:Violence against LGBT people

Inclusion of serial killers

The inclusion of the serial killers John Wayne Gacy and Jeffrey Dahmer is problematic. It's not clear that self-hate was the only (or driving) reason behind their crimes. Recommend either deletion or move to separate section. omgwtf

State-sponsored violence

The article says that "The Roman Empire starting under Constantine around 400 CE." Since Constantine was emperor between 306 and 337, I think "The Roman Empire starting under Constantine in the early 4th century", or maybe "The Roman Empire starting after Constantine around 400 CE." would be more appropriate.

ARTICLE SPLIT

As per the above discussion, this article has been split into three new articles: Significant acts of violence against LGBT people, for listing individual acts of violence, History of violence against LGBT people in the United Kingdom, because someone had done some lovely research and work on the UK's section in this article, and History of violence against LGBT people in the United States, because the US's section was insanely long. I think that covers it. Noted 7 ^{(t · c)} 16:18, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

By Country

Don't know whether there is a census for this or anything, but shouldn't a list of the violence against the LGBT community be shown by country so activists in said countries can keep tabs and work to have it stopped?Lightningbarer (talk) 22:43, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

See Significant acts of violence against LGBT people. It's broken down by country. :) Noted 7 ^{(t · c)} 00:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Merge proposals?

Since there have been some merges proposed on the article (namely merging gay bashing and homocaust into this article), let's discuss them, shall we? I agree Homocaust should probably be merged here, since the article is super-short/doesn't seem to need its own page. Maybe it will someday (hopefully not), but not now. As for Gay Bashing, I'll use the same reasons for opposing that merge as I did the last time a merge between them was suggested: "Oppose per user:Penbat ("Oppose. Violence specifically relates to physical abuse. Gay bullying and gay bashing relate to both physical and verbal abuse.") and the fact that the Violence against LGBT people article is already huge [...] I don't believe they should be merged with such a huge article that refers specifically to only one aspect of bullying." Noted 7 ^{(t · c)} 16:54, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

You are right. I have no preference, I simply noted that this article has much more and better organized material than the dilapidated Homocaust and gay-bashing articles. Perhaps the best approach would be to {{split}} some of the material off to these article. But "homocaust" ("homocausto") seems to be just a humorous term for homophobic murders in Brazil, and it may be better to discuss these under a more encyclopedic terms such as "homophobic murders in Brazil".

In my dictionary (but your mileage may vary), "gay-bashing" is explicitly physical violence, while "gay bullying" may of course involve simple verbal injury or mobbing. So I am not sure it makes sense the article treats the two expressions as synonyms. I realize that "bashing" may be used figuratively, but when I hear "gay-bashing" I picture drunken hetero bullies chasing gays with clubs. etymonline has this to say: bash: "to strike violently," figurative sense of "abuse verbally or in writing" is from 1948. --dab (𒁳) 17:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

alright, googling around, I recognize that "gay bashing" is in fact widely used in the weaker (figurative) sense of "expressing anti-gay sentiments". So I agree it certainly makes sense to keep this separate from an article about physical assault. --dab (𒁳) 17:20, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

US-Centric

This article's section on Christianity and Homosexuality is even more US-centric than the full article Christianity and homosexuality. For example, despite the fact that that article clearly states that homosexuality is not viewed as immoral by all mainstream German Protestant groups with a combined membership of 24.5 million out of the country's 83 million population, this article blithely states that "most" Christian denominations view homosexuality in a certain way and then lists a bunch of United States denominations like the Reformed Church in America, which has 170,000 members. This article needs to take into account views across the world or it risks creating the impression that acceptance of homosexuality is limited to a few fringe groups. 124.170.38.173 (talk) 08:33, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Transgenders are not homosexuals

The lead of the article is written rather badly. While transgender people MAY be homosexuals they are not necessarily homosexuals. Gender identity and sexual identity are two completely different and separate things. Lumping LGBT as a 'homosexual community' is not only incorrect but also offensively ignorant.

"Discrimination against homosexuals is also referred to as discrimination against LGBTQI people. With LGBT(Q)I standing for ("lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, (questioning) and intersex")."

If this line must be included then perhaps it should mention that referring to LGBTQI as "discrimination against homosexuals" is inaccurate. Celynn (talk) 05:48, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Sorted (the first paragraph anyway). Thanks for pointing it out. Sophie means wisdom (talk) 22:20, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Article title?

Can someone clarify the history of the article title? The "Discrimination" sidebar shows the link "LGBT hate crime" which links to this article. Also, gay bashing is a distinct article. This article begins with the "Violence against LGBT people may occur either via legislation prohibiting homosexual acts, or by ad hoc intimidation, ..." which doesnt seem quite right, since discriminatory legislation is not encompassed in the typical definitions of "violence". The questions that jump out at me are:

1. Should this article be renamed to "LGBT hate crime" to be consistent with the Discrimination sidebar? Or should the sidebar be changed to be consistent with this article title?
2. If the article title is left as-is ("Violence against ...") should the article include discriminatory legislation?
3. If the article is to keep the current "Violence ..." title and to include discriminatory legislation, what is the source that justifies that?
4. If this article is going to focus on violence, should gay bashing be merged into this article (I presume that gay bashing accounts for the vast majority of violence against LGBTs, true?)
5. Does the term "gay bashing" exclude violence against transsexuals (I see that Trans bashing is a distinct article)?
6. Could this article be considered a subarticle of homophobia? Or does homophobia exclude transexuals (its text does say it includes persons "perceived to be homosexual", but I note the existence of Transphobia)?

I ask because I was thinking of working on gay bashing article (bring it up to GA or perhaps even FA status), but I don't want to invest the time if there is no clear agreement about terminology and article scopes. Thanks in advance for any replies. --Noleander (talk) 10:28, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

as with the previous thread, thanks for pointing out *another* problem with this article! yes, I think that titling, intro wording and content weight all need looking at. Any suggestions are welcome, and I have an idea or two of my own. Sophie means wisdom (talk) 11:36, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. Could you provide your thoughts on the specific questions listed above: I want to get a feel for how others perceive the overlap between the articles. --Noleander (talk) 11:52, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I feel that the two articles are redundant and that they should be merged and re-titled, that discriminatory legislation should be mentioned if we have reliable sources that discuss it as an example of violence but not discussed extensively (do we have an article on homosexuality bans that we could mainlink to?) and that anti-trans hate crimes should also be mentioned (since "LGBT" is standard title format) but mainlinked to the article that I assume exists on anti-trans hate crime. And yes, sub-article of homophobia. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:02, 14 February 2012 (UTC)