Talk:Visayans

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Pictures Needed![edit]

Hello! Hope you could help by putting some pictures. These might look good on the article: 1. Geopolitical Map of the Visayas 2. Linguistic Map of Binisaya-speaking areas 3. The baptism of Rajah Humabon (that painting in Sto. Nino Church) 4. The Sto. Nino 5. Pedro Calungsod 6. Graciano Lopez-Jaena 7. Leon Kilat 8. Gen. Maxilom 9. Lapu-lapu killing Magellan 10. Sergio Osmena 11. Carlos Garcia --Nino Gonzales 16:41, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

dubious statements[edit]

  • usage of Binisaya

Hi, the statement below: The Bisaya all refer to their respective languages as Binisaya. Binisaya literally means "the way of the Bisaya" and is used to refer to bisaya-style cooking and indigenous herbal medicine, aside from the languages. ...is dubious. I speak Bisaya (Cebuano). I can't recall anyone calling our native tonque as Binisaya. It's simply Bisaya (accent to the last syllable). 2) Maybe it means "the way of the Bisaya" but to my ears and to my co-Bisaya acquantances it sounds more like a made-up language (in the past tense) literally "being Bisayaned". Something like Tagalog becoming "Tinagalog".

Hi! May I ask where you learned Cebuano? There are many variants, some of which may not have the "in" infix. Other usages of this infix in the "way" sense are: Binata (chidish), Binayot (in a gay manner), Binoang (foolish), Ininsik (in a Chinese way or the Chinese language). The past tense sense of the infix "in" is from Tagalog, I think. E.g., kinuha (kuha), kinain (kain), kinulong (kulong), kinidnap (kidnap), giniling (giling)...--Nino Gonzales 06:07, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Ethnic vs. Linguistic Identity subsection

This section is dubious and unclear, the whole of it. Bisaya however is an ethnic rather than a linguistic identity. One is not a Bisaya because the language one speaks is Binisiya. It is the other way around; the language one speaks is Binisaya because one is Bisaya What does it exactly mean? (For clarity, I'll use the distinction of Bisaya the ethnicity and Binisaya the language) I'm sure it's the other way around. I know that we Bisaya acknowledge and embrace anyone who speak Binisaya natively anywhere in the country as Bisaya; so that on the contrary, one is Bisaya because he/she can speak Binisaya. The language one speaks is Binisaya no matter where you are either in the Visayas or in Mindanao. Thus Bisaya is a linguistic identity. I think all of us Filipinos go into ethnolinguistic lines so that the distinction between the speaker and the spoken language is blurred. Just like say, Tagalog, one is ethnically Tagalog because he/she speaks it natively. Visayans do not discriminate. Jordz

I reworded it. Please see if it sounds better... --Nino Gonzales 06:07, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

New Assessment Criteria for Ethnic Groups articles[edit]

Hello,

WikiProject Ethnic groups has added new assessment criteria for Ethnic Groups articles.

I rated the Bisaya article: Start-Class, with the following comments (see link to ratings summary page in the Ethnic groups template atop this talk page):

  • This article is really somewhere bewteen a "Start" class and a "B" class.
  • There are so many sections that could be added, however, that I opted for the latter. The article is 90% history.
  • Needs info on current culture, current religion, perhaps a bit of political info, etc. Basically, things about life among the Bisaya. There are a couple sentences in various sections (such as "Post-Philippine Independence"), but more info in separate sections would be helpful.
  • Needs an infobox

You can give this article (and any other article within the WikiProject) a rating, as described below.

-->How to assess articles

Revisions of assessment ratings can be made by assigning an appropriate value via the class parameter in the WikiProject Ethnic groups project banner {{Ethnic groups}} that is currently placed at the top of Ethnic groups articles' talk pages. Quality assessment guidelines are at the Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team's assessment system page. After rating the article, please provide a short summary to explain your ratings and/or identify the strengths and weaknesses. To add the summary, please edit this article's ratings summary page. A link to this page can be found in the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the article's talk page.

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Another way to help out that could be an enjoyable pastime is to visit Category:Unassessed Ethnic groups articles, find an interesting-looking article to read, and carefully assess it following those guidelines.

Thanks!
--Ling.Nut 14:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Origin of the Bisaya[edit]

I'm confused. Did the Bisaya arrive in the Philippines as one people who eventually fractured into the different linguistic groups that they are today, or are they really separate ethnic groups who came to form their Bisaya identity based on geography (that is, they became the Bisaya because they lived in the Visayas)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.213.171.104 (talk) 17:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

I haven't encountered an answer to that question. And I don't know if that could be answered. What people agree on is that the Visayans are linguistically related. --Nino Gonzales 04:44, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Some Visayan legends speak of migrations, particularly one from Borneo.--23prootie 22:12, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Since there is a Visayan language family, the languages that the Bisaya now speak must have once been just one single language, hence, my belief that the Bisaya were and are one people who, because of the geographic nature of the places they settled in, ended up not understanding each other, i.e., speaking different languages. I guess sort of the same could be said about the Bicolanos, except that they have now developed a standard Bikol language so they could communicate with each other like in the olden days.
Well linguist David Zorc presented a research on how all present-day Visayan languages originated from one mother identity (proto-Visayan). He mentioned here how these languages are more like a dialect continuum. He also reconstructed the consonant and vowel inventory of the said proto-Visayan. If you are acquainted with phonology, and some of these languages particularly Kinaray-a, you can still trace their distinct mid-central vowel [ə] or the schwa which presumably evolved into the unique close-mid back unrounded vowel [ɤ] of Aklanon which resembles the voiceless alveolar lateral fricative [ɬ] of Polish. Take note that these two Visayan languages have strong lexical similarity to Hiligaynon. Even Hiligaynon and Waray speakers share many vocabulary with the Cebuanos although their prosody and a few grammatical markers might differ. Linguists strongly suspect Visayan languages originated from one core language and diverged through time. In terms of history, the legend of the Maragtas is a common oral lore across Panay. Antiqueños have celebrated significant parts of this so-called legend through the Binirayan Festival all the way from 1974. This is also correlated to the much older Ati-Atihan and Dinagyang. There is also poetry compiled by Cebuano writer Jovito Abellana called Aginid, Bayok sa Atong Tawarik which is being distributed by the Cebu Normal University since 1998. This tells of a certain Sri Lumay or Rajamuda Lumaya who came from Sumatra and established the pre-Hispanic Rajahnate of Cebu then called Singhapala. This may sound confirmation bias, but he might be related to the Ten Bornean Datus mentioned in Maragtas although taking geography into consideration turns it dubious. The fact that European explorers have mentioned that places such as Bohol are inhabited by the Pintados or the tattooed people, it would also be plausible to validate the Leyte and Samar people as Visayans who themselves celebrate Pintados-Kasadyaan festivals which revolve around this historical theme. There are also many cultural connections among Visayans such as diet. I've personally verified that aside from Ilonggos, even Warays and Cebuanos call a certain vegetable dish as láswa. I think even the Aklanons eat it as well. They also share a few cultural dances like curacha but with variations. Likewise, the Ati who originate with in the Visayan islands also call the lowland Christianized stocks as Bisaya notwithstanding their specific group. Pansitkanton (talk) 19:26, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

"related groups" info removed from infobox[edit]

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 20:51, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Reply: There is to many related ethnic groups in the information box section. I removed all the nonsense on this article and added more clarifications. Visayans are related to the Filipino people and Austronesian race, o.k. Have some common sense for goodness sakes. And also this article talks about Visayans citizens living in the Philippines! Why does people have to add Visayan populations in other countries??? such as Malaysia or the United States. What's that got to do with the Visayans. Visayans are from the Philippines, not Malaysia. Used some common knowledge it's very simple, why doesn't people ever used it. It's very simple.
I don't think the issue of "common sense" is contestable here as what you are accusing. Look at other ethnic groups such as Circassians, Kurds and Quechua. Like the Visayans, they are ethnic components of a country. They do not strictly fall under any existing state or exclusively control one. The issue of plurality in Philippine society might take me an article to explain, but the concept of "Filipino" is nothing but citizenship based upon definitions of a constitution, not a concrete ethnic identity. You can see the same construction in articles for ethnic groups that practically fall under the same situation as Filipino groups like the Javanese. I don't get how it's acceptable for you to present data on population of overseas people based on nationality or citizenship, but not on ethnicity which can be statistically possible as the former. It's just pure double standard. You are not promoting common knowledge as what you see about yourself, but rather destroying what Wikipedia is actually trying to let us do. I'm retaining a single data on Visayan population because there are no credible unified sources for overseas Visayan expatriates but NOT for other poorly-thought reasons such as "lack of common sense". Pansitkanton (talk) 18:45, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Pedrocalungsod.jpg[edit]

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BetacommandBot (talk) 16:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)