Talk:Voiceless bilabial fricative

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What does this have to say about the nature of Korean /u/? It's not compressed like Japanese /u/, is it? kwami 19:38, 2005 August 24 (UTC)

The .ogg file for this ɸ or /p/ sound is all wrong. It sounds like "saw, a saw" and has no /p/ in it. Ginger Conspiracy (talk) 03:11, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't think so. I can't hear any sibilation. A sibilant, especially [s], is characterised by a pronounced "hissing", i. e., high-pitched turbulence. Also, this sound is a fricative, quite unlike [p]. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:40, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Phonemic?[edit]

'Occurrence' doesn't list whether it is phonemic or allophonic with /f/ in any language. Anyone know which are which? Kielbasa1 (talk) 19:06, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Easy. Whenever the notes say it's an allophone of some other sound, it's not a phoneme, in all other cases you can assume that it is an independent phoneme. Therefore, in none of the cases currently listed, the sound is an allophone of /f/, while in two of the currently listed cases, it is not phonemic, but neither is it an allophone of /f/ at least, but of some other phoneme. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:46, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
Note, however, that according to Spanish phonology#Phonetic notes (at the end of the section), [ɸ] also occurs as an allophone of /f/ in non-standard Spanish, although it is not completely clear from the text whether both are in free variation or if there is some condition under which [ɸ] occurs. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:50, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
It's not so hard and fast. Part of the reason these sorts of tables don't make a habit of making that distinction is because the status of a sound as a contextual variant depends partly on analysis. — Ƶ§œš¹ [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 04:51, 28 December 2011 (UTC)