Talk:Volleyball

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Contents

[edit] Archives

[edit] Begining Paragraph

Removed begining paragraph because it was too POV

Volleyball can be a very active sport. Because many offensive plays involve contacting the ball above the top of the net, vertical jumping is an athletic skill emphasized in volleyball.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drgnaw (talk • contribs).

Realistically, I don't think that's too PoV. I have re-added the sentence and included a reference to a paper. --Pak21 17:02, 1 March 2007 (UTC) The volleyball hall of fame states that Volleyball is the second most popular sport in the world behind soccer. While it has not flourished in the united states as it has in european and other foreign countries, it remains second to soccer through-out europe as seen in all the professional leagues developed there.

[edit] beginning

[edit] Kills

What exactly, is a "kill?" I see it on a lot of statistics as something separate from a point and I have no idea what it is. I was surprised to see no mention of it on here. I'm assuming its another name for something already listed, but that would be good to include this as an alternate name for it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.97.253.2 (talk • contribs).

See Volleyball jargon. Unfortunately, people have trashed that page again by adding in huge amounts of non-notable jargon but kill is still there. --Pak21 08:46, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

A kill is a spike/hit that earns a point. A point in general can be earned in various different ways, a kill being only one of those ways.

[edit] Semi-protection

I'm starting to feel that it may be time to ask for semi-protection for this page, as almost every edit seems to either be vandalism by an anonymous IP, or a reversion to undo that vandalism. Any opinions? Cheers --Pak21 08:19, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not as bad as some (suffers vandalism only several times per day) but yes, with no content edits for a while, it might be worth it for some time. Icemuon 10:12, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Whoa, just looking at my watchlist after being gone for a day and seeing this page being vandalised constantly leads me to agree completely with Pak21. I'm in favor of semiprotection.. Cheers, PaddyM 03:07, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Requested Cheers --Pak21 08:18, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, that got rejected pretty quickly. Guess we'll just have keep on watching it. Cheers, PaddyM 13:46, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

A kill is when you hit or spike the ball and it hits the floor on the other side of the net or the other team shanks the ball on one contact. =] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.170.49 (talk) 05:41, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] starting paragraph

I was thinking about changing the lead of this article in three ways. 1) There is a redudancy in the ways to score a point. According to the rules a team scores a point if a) balls hits ground b) opponent makes fault (this includes not bringing the ball back correctly!) c) the opponent gets a penalty (for behavioral reasons). I propose we mention either these three or skip the last one. but since the third possibility mentioned now is part of the second I propose we at least strike that one. 2) There is not really a point in mentioning that vertical jumping is part of volleyball. I would personnaly never explain volleyball in two sentences to anybody and then choose to mention the fact that the athletic skill of vertical jumping is very important. (if we put this down here, it may for example also warrant the inclusion of the fact that a lot of volleyball players at high levels are very long because the game involves hitting the ball above the net.) I opt for removal. 3) Lets include here the concept of 'to volley', and specifcy, not necessarily in too many words the 'way' the ball is supposed to be touched, which is integral for the sport. If there are no strong objections I will go for editing. Thanks for your time! -Catneven 08:02, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree the lead probably isn't optimal. Perhaps if we look to similar sports articles like Association football or Baseball we might find ways we might change, and even expand, the lead here. The goal is to provide a basic understanding in simple terms what the game is to someone who may never have seen it before. AUTiger ʃ talk/work 16:39, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I opt for using a style like the one used in basketball. Seems more comparable, because it is also a small-team, indoor, ballsport and I like the style of of the lead.
changed the lead, anybody is welcome to contribute!-Catneven 09:13, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reformatting

In order to get this articles quality up, I propose we are going to employ a structure as in soccer, which is a featured article.-Catneven 09:12, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I propose we lose the major part of the strategy and technique part and put that into a secondary article, covering only the basics in the main article.-Catneven 10:16, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "seperated"

The word is "separated"

what's the point of specifying that here. You could just have changed it, unsigned user. Thanks for the help anyway.-Catneven 00:01, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Volleyball WikiProject and rules of the game

We're working on creating a section of Wikipedia for the rules of volleyball for the Volleyball WikiProject Each rule will have a separate sub-article (like Baseball rules. At some point, we'll take the majority of "rules of the game" and split it into the specific rule article. If anyone thinks this is a bad idea, or if you think it's a good one, please discuss it here. BrianZ(talk) 01:03, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

This is a good idea, in my opinion but the change of one of this article's paragraphs should be discussed here.-Catneven 09:48, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
We also need to distinguish at what level and with what organization these rules apply. At the moment, some of the statements indicate that these are rules at all levels when in fact they are not. Vbofficial 03:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Well, that ties in nicely with the Volleyball in Xxxx discussion below. The main volleyball (and Volleyball rules) article should reflect the most widespread ruleset, that being the FIVB rules, for NPOV. US high school or college rule differences, being simply a regional variation specific to an age group, could be handled in the Volleyball in the United States article (which needs to be expanded/cleaned/etc).AUTiger » talk 03:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Volleyball in...

Somewhere along the way (probably while I was on a wikivacation) the link to the sub-article Volleyball in the United States, to which the most US-centric content of earlier versions of this article was segregated, was lost. Curious about ideas for the best place/way to reintroduce the link as well as those for similar articles like Volleyball in Poland, Volleyball in Spain, and Volleyball in France. Perhaps in the subsections of History, or a separate subsection under history after the Olympics sub-section. Thoughts? AUTiger » talk 22:26, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea and as part of the Volleyball WikiProject, I'm trying to make the entire scope of Volleyball more global on WP, (including bios of top professional teams and players in the world, etc.) not just USA volleyball. This article needs a major overhaul and I applaud anyone willing to start it. One way to integrate the "Volleyball in <country>" links is to wiki link them in a table of popularity of the sport in the specific country. However, this might be too much since there are hundreds of countries and a lot of research must be done as these rankings are not officially published. We could start with an infobox with all countries with the Volleyball in <country>" article and label it in the See Also section. Just my humble opinion. I actually haven't even thought about revamping the article or looked at it in detail lately, other than to control vandalism. BrianZ(talk) 22:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Coincidently, I have the list of countries with a "Volleyball in <country" article: Argentina, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belgium, Croatia, Cyprus, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Japan, Montenegro, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Turkey, Netherlands, Philippines, and The United States. BrianZ(talk) 23:01, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I only found "Volleyball in <country>" for France, Poland, and Spain. Am I missing something here? Wiredcoach 17:25, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I also agree that there should be a link in this general "Volleyball" article to "Volleyball in the United States". I think that a lot of people searching "volleyball" on Wikipedia will actually want to know about Volleyball in the U.S. AUTiger, maybe you could find the most appropriate place to put it back in. Wiredcoach 17:25, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I just checked and the link to the US article is in here, at the bottom of the Volleyball in the Olympics subsection of the History section. I don't know that that is the best place for it, but I didn't really see any better spot in a review of History (which is my first instinct). AUTiger » talk 02:52, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1 in 6 people watch volleyball?

The FIVB estimates that 1 in 6 people in the world participate in or observe indoor volleyball, beach volleyball, or backyard (recreational) volleyball - Surely a citation is needed here (and even with one I think this needs to be more specific - there may be many people who watch beach volleyball on TV but have no interest in the sport!)

More specifically this is a meaningless and unreliable figure, a) because it comes from a governing body who have a vested interest in the figure and b) because it is a speculation without hard facts and therefore does not belong in an encyclopaedia.

Greynolds999 17:57, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
A quick Yahoo search shows that many MANY sites use the EXACT phrase we used. So they most likely took the line from this article. Considering I couldn't find it on the FIVB site itself, I'd call it untrue. I have removed this line. Seek Bar 01:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

According to this site, the FIVB did make the claim, but backed off from it when pressed. Rracecarr 02:14, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation

There is NO citation whatsoever in the Origin of Volleyball section. A lot of the information found there can be confirmed here. I'd cite it myself, but it's semi-protected and I'm a new user. Seek Bar 01:59, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Good point. I'm a bit hesitant about the source you mention, so I added two other sources which look a bit more official. I also removed the protection. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 05:11, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, first Yahoo link, and I trust about.com. Anyway, thanks for the help. Seek Bar 00:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 3 hits

A block is not counted as a hit (contact). If the ball is blocked, the next touch actually counts as contact number 1. Also, if the ball is blocked, the same player can contact the ball again.Skdrew 02:08, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

See note 2 under "Errors and faults". --Pak21 06:44, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] British vs American English

This string of edits in May changed the long-established use of British English in this article to American English. WP:ENGVAR suggests that, in the absence of a strong reason for doing otherwise (which I don't think there is here), we should use the form of English used by the first major contributor. What would people's views be on changing this back? Cheers --Pak21 08:20, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

The primary argument I can see for it being in American English is that the sport originated in the US which could be considered a "strong national tie". AUTiger » talk 14:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Accepted, but it's now much more a worldwide sport than an American one; the FIVB rulebook uses "metre". --Pak21 14:48, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
While I would prefer AmEng (per the origination arg.), its not something I had felt so strongly about as to make the change from BrEng. The spelling variants in this article are a pretty trivial issue. AUTiger » talk 15:12, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Volleyball was called mintonette before it became volleyball, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.60.190.76 (talk) 22:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent Changes

It'd be nice to have some insight into the motive and reason for the more relatively recent changes to the rules.

--76.66.193.188 (talk) 03:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

The motive has in general been to make volleyball a more spectator-friendly sport. The change to rally scoring was made to make the length of games more predictable for TV purposes, and to make the scoring easier to follow for spectators. The let serve, and looser rules about how to contact the ball were introduced to encourage spectacular rallies, which presumably makes the game more fun to watch. I don't know quite how to cite this, but FIVB makes its interest in attracting spectators quite explicitly clear. Rracecarr (talk) 19:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

On the rationale for the changes, here is what the 2008 NCAA Rulebook says: ""The committee recognized that ball handling judgment was, at times, inconsistent both within a match and from contest to contest. Not only were those inconsistencies frustrating for players and coaches, whistles for subtle infractions discernible only by the referees are confusing to fans. With increased television exposure, it is important to attempt to develop ball handling guidelines that are understandable by typical sports fans, not just the volleyball community. The basic tenet is that the excitement of the sport of volleyball can be increased with fewer whistles for minor ball handling infractions and increased leniency on particularly athletic plays that may not result in a perfectly executed set by traditional standards, but provides a continuation of play." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.233.22.68 (talk) 06:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lift (/carry) rule abolished

Has the lift rule been abolished? I have just finished Nationals in New Zealand and was informed that the rule is now referred to "catch and throw" / "caught and thrown". We need to update the page to show this. Kennedy (talk) 09:36, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

what is the standarad popsicle height for saftey laws? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.60.241.137 (talk) 12:08, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rules (Libero)

From the section on rules for the Libero: " ... makes an 'attacking hit', defined as any shot struck while the ball is entirely above the top of the net."

First, the term (as used in the FIVB rule book) is "attack hit" not "attacking hit." Further, the definition of "attack hit" is given incorrectly. The restriction on the height of the ball is is not part of the definition of an attack hit. The rule prohibits the Libero from making a hit which is BOTH 1) an attack hit AND 2) higher than the top of the net.

Corrected wording: " ... makes an "attack hit" (defined as any action which directs the ball towards the opponents, with the exception of service and block), while the ball is entirely higher than the top of the net.

The parenthetical definition of "attack hit" is taken directly from the FIVB rule book, grammatically modified to fit the sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 (talk) 17:21, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I added a parenthetical comment on the pronunciation of libero. As someone new to watching higher-level volleyball, it was confusing when the article said to pronounce it LI-ber-o but everybody I heard actually pronounced it li-BEAR-o. Fool4jesus (talk) 11:55, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Please split this page up

Rather than receiving a broad treatment on the subject, the casual reader gets bogged down in the minutiae of strategy, fundamentals, Olympics info and rules. This article is currently at a massive 48K, whereas the guidelines suggest 30K.

Please make this article more readable and chop it up into separate pages.

--Jasonschock (talk) 22:33, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Since your suggestion received absolutely no response, I've removed the "split" tags from the article. If you feel strongly about this, go ahead and be bold and split them up, and see what the response is. If you do, be sure that there's a link to the new sub-article somewhere in this one. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 21:27, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Jump serve least popular?

I'm pretty new at watching volleyball, but I see an awful lot of servers use what looks to me like a jump serve. Are these really something else, or is this line wrong? I find it hard to believe the jump serve is less popular than, say, the sky ball serve. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.109.49.254 (talk • contribs)

Your impression is correct. This was an uncaught bit of vandalism from 7 October, which I've now corrected. Thanks for the pointer! --Pak21 (talk) 10:37, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rotation and formation

I don't get rotation and the required formation at the time of the serve. I mean, I get the simple 3+3 diagram shown in the article, which is what we all use when we play pick-up games at the gym. But when I see NCAA games on TV, I see nothing like that. I see what looks like 3 people in the front standing directly in front of each other, a person or two behind or on the side and a server.

Now, I can understand that they can start in one position and end up in another. But I've watched carefully to try and see how the players might start in the simple 3+3 formation and end up the way they actually play - and I have not been able to figure out how the rules given in the article ("The area '1' player must be behind the area '2' player and to the right of the area '6' player," etc.) are actually played out. Let's say you are an outside hitter; do you really start out in the back line and move to the front after the ball is served? I am not doubting the rules as given here are correct; I just think it would be beneficial to give an example or two of how positions and rotation really work out in a high-level game. Thanks. Fool4jesus (talk) 02:56, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-protection (2)

Just a quick note that this page has now been semi-protected for three months, which should deal with the silly levels of IP vandalism we've been seeing... thanks to everyone who tidied up the mess :-) --Pak21 (talk) 12:52, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

The semi-protection expired, we got vandalised a lot, the semi-protection is now back (indefinitely). Cheers --Pak21 (talk) 18:36, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Errors and faults

To me, the "Errors and faults" section is a particularly weak part of this article. It's just a list, without any attempt to be encyclopedic prose. I've had a quick go at working this section into the "Game play" section, which can be seen here. The main weakness I see of this approach is that it lacks the precision that the current version has, but I'm not too worried about that: the article should be a general introduction to volleyball for the general reader, not a detailed breakdown of the rulebook. Comments welcome! Cheers --Pak21 (talk) 11:15, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Given the lack of any objections, I've now done this. Cheers --Pak21 (talk) 09:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
I like it. One thing that would be really useful (to me anyway) is if this prose discussion section had links to an actual volleyball rulebook at appropriate places. That would a perfect combination of overview and links to drill down into selected details. As I noted above, I am really confused about what the rule is for where players have to stand. I believe that it's a "rotation" but they are certainly (in the VA state tournament game I went to last night, for example) not standing in a nicely ordered 3-and-3 setup like in the picture. It would be great to have the place where that is mentioned link to an actual rulebook (is there one that can be picked? I don't even know that) rule regarding the order. Of course, if I were to do it myself, I would learn alot about the rules :) - but I don't really have time ATM. Thanks for your consideration. Fool4jesus (talk) 22:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the kind words :-) The FIVB rulebook is available from the FIVB site, and I agree references should be added where appropriate; for positioning, you want Section 7.4 and Diagram 4 (I don't believe there are any significant differences between FIVB rules and any other organisations on this front). However... what's in the rulebook is essentially an algorithm for determining whether a fault has occurred or not, and I'm not sure it is particularly useful for the general reader in trying to understand what they see in a typical volleyball game which, as you point out, doesn't always look like a simple "three at the front and three at the back". What would be great here would be a site from a coach giving diagrams for each rotation in a 5-1 setup, but I don't know of one (or I'd use it for my coaching!) Cheers --Pak21 (talk) 09:06, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for the link and, in general, all your hard work on the volleyball article. You have taught me a lot about the sport. If I can dig (haha!) up some time, I'll try and add some references like this also. Fool4jesus (talk) 11:38, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] el:Πετοσφαίριση

Add the greek article el:Πετοσφαίριση.87.202.35.32 (talk) 11:05, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for the pointer. --Pak21 (talk) 11:29, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Wallyball

Can someone add wallyball to the list of related sports? I'd do it but the page is locked...68.44.106.58 (talk) 06:46, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

It's listed on the Volleyball variations page; is there a reliable source showing that wallyball is in some way more significant than any of those other variations? We don't want that whole list moving back onto this page... Cheers --Pak21 (talk) 07:26, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
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