Talk:Warsaw Ghetto

stuff

"At this time, the population of the Ghetto was estimated to be about 1,000 people, about 68% of the population of Warsaw." -- Were 1,000 people -really- 68% of the population of Warsaw?? This seems like a typo. -- Thurifer 17 Mar 2007

More to come in a few days, until someone else is faster. --Yooden

I guess ZZW is ŻZW, Żydowski Związek Walki (i am not sure, but Jewish Fighting Union in Polish is translated like that (and yes, those organisation were named in Polish, and they used also Polish flags) szopen

Could you check whether I messed up the characters? --Yooden

I guess they are OK now. szopen

To help with the Warsaw Uprising page I made a number of photos around Warsaw. I can also make more on demand for specified locations in the centre to help with this page. If there's something still existing in Warsaw and/or a monument anybody would like photographed, please put a note on my talk page saying where and why. Mozzerati 22:10, 2004 Jul 31 (UTC)

File:WaffenSS police ghetto.jpg

Waffen SS during the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising

I uploaded yet another pic, but I can't fit it into the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising page. Perhaps it could be added here? Halibutt 23:31, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

can i just ask, why isnt there CYMRAEG/WELSH in the languages? ive got a welsh project to do, and i need this info in WELSH! :@ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.64.176.102 (talk) 13:49, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Jewish Ghetto Police

Goodoldpolonius2, please don't revert without discussing it first at this talk page! My primary texts are: Emanuel Ringelblum, Notes from the Warsaw Ghetto, ISBN 0805204601 (unfortunately I have only Polish language edition), Barbara Engelking, Ghetto Warszawskie. Przewodnik Po Nieistniejacym Miescie, ISBN 838763283X (in Polish). Engelking's 824 pages work is the most complete book on the Warsaw Ghetto. It was published by Polish Academy of Science in 2001. Also, Calel Perechodnik, Am I a murderer?: Testament of a Jewish Ghetto Policeman, ISBN 0813327024 describes participation of the Jewish Ghetto Police in Otwock (outskirts of Warsaw) in deportations to Treblinka. Quick google.com search on Jewish Police yields the following pages: [1], deathcamps.org/occupation/warsaw%20ghetto%20liquidation.html, [2], [3], [4]. I would be happy to discuss this topic here since, guessing from your reaction, this issue is relatively unknown even to people interested in Jewish history. --Ttyre 18:56, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think that if you want to insert that sentence, it needs to read, "A role in these expulsions was played by Jewish Ghetto Police, organized, like the Judenrat, by the Germans. Some of the police were threatened with having their relatives sent to death camps if they did not comply with these orders, and others saw an opportunity to live better than the average Ghetto resident." From your sources (www.deathcamps.org/occupation/warsaw%20ghetto%20liquidation.html): "The 2,000 - 2,500 Jewish policemen and their families were promised immunity by the Germans for their co-operation. As the "action" progressed they began to understand that they were not more than a tool of the Germans and their future like ordinary Jews was clouded in doubt. Therefore they began to desert in droves. The German's response: each policeman was personally ordered to bring in five heads per day for deportation. Those who did not fulfill this order were threatened with having their relatives transported to make up the difference. The SS directed the deportations from two centres in the ghetto." Not that there weren't thieves, opportunists, and evil people among the police, but we should be careful to explain more fully. --Goodoldpolonius2 03:19, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

On a role of the Jewish Ghetto police see discussion. --Ttyre 16:01, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

To Good: the Jewish Ghetto Police was composed of volunteers! so noone was threatened. Mostly for a better life. JB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.50.25.174 (talk) 11:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

"Poles" = non-Jewish Poles?

This article contains at least two references to "Poles" in contexts that make it apparent that it means non-Jewish Poles. It presupposes that Jewish Poles are not Poles. I'm inclined to change it to "non-Jewish Poles". Comments? Michael Hardy 20:57, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

My personal preference is to use gentile Poles and Polish Jews. --Ttyre 21:54, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

I think non-Jewish is more common usage, but either one works for me. --Goodoldpolonius2 01:55, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

someone please answer this: when did the ZOB recieve their first gun?

Corruption of article

...members of the Jewish police the sdjhdfgh]] train station each day, and failure to do so would result in immediate execution of some one hundred hostages, including Czerniaków's wife...

Does anyone have the information to correct this? --Brideshead 18:17, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

1821, 1903

The article claimed the Germans occupied Poland in 1821 and established the ghetto in 1903, which is obviously some sort of wierd typo. I changed the dates to 1939 and 1940, respectively, since I know the Germans invaded in 1939, and the article says the ghetto was established one year after the beginning of the occupation. I marked the edit as minor due to the obvious implausiblity of the 1821/1903 dates, but I just thought I'd mention it here since I don't know much about the warsaw ghetto. --Filippo Argenti 20:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

False Figures: 1000 people, 68%, 94%

What was also incorrect were the figures. The article claimed that the population of the ghetto was about 1000 people, whereas in fact it was 440 000. Moreover, it was stated that this "1000" ghetto inhabitants were 67% of Warsaw's population and that ghetto made up 94% of its size. Later I also have found that food rations for Poles were about 6692, more than for Germans! I couldn't verify if the rest of them is good unfortunately. So many mistypes in one place? It sounds strange to me. I reckon this page is being sabotaged as changing figures is more difficult to spot but their significance is undeniable. For someone who has never heard of Szoah like some youngsters and were wishing to expand their knowledge it might have been very misleading (thinking like "1000 people ? What's the big deal?". I would encourage a Wikipedia Moderator to do some research on this matter. Remember that Wikipedia often shapes peoples opinions as well as beliefs.. AktynSources of new data: http://www.dws.xip.pl/reich/zaglada/getto6.html (POLISH)

www.ushmm.org says that it was about 30 percent of the population, and I think it is possible that Holocaust deniers etc. are messing with the data- I'd fix it.

Okay

Article ready? --HanzoHattori 14:25, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

194.35.219.101 removed "Famous prizoners" in February and noone has realised it yet. Xx236 16:16, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Minsk Ghetto

The Minsk Ghetto was one of the largest Nazi concentration camp. 100,000 Jews were forced to live there, and only 300 of them survived. Today, there are only 65 survivors still alive. I think someone should write an article about that.--71.108.56.95 00:19, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Food rations

I changed yesterday the amount of calories given to Jews, Non-jew poles and German officers: 184 kcal, 669 kcal and 2,614 kcal respectively. I changed it because I had a test today on this subject and noticed the error. I took the numbers from the book that's given to us at the Jewish school I'm attending; it's called "Historia Judía V" or "Jewish History V (5)" in English. I don't have the book with me right now but I can scan the paragraph were this is stated if you need it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.244.23.137 (talk) 21:22, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

picture

Jewish children

There's another impressive picture I found at at Bundesarchiv, should it be added? The layout becomes quiet complicated, so I'd like to leave it to someone with more experience. HerkusMonte (talk) 17:34, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

...such a sad picture...I don't think there is a room ... but I used it here[[5]]

Ghetto area

The ghetto - while officially surrounded by the wall by the Germans - was unofficially always in this area of Warsaw. The Jews used to live together in this area, seperating themself from the local Polish. It should be mentioned in this article. Otherwise it gives an impression that the whole area was cleared forcefully (ahich is not the case) of the Polish residents of Warsaw and then habitated forcefully (which is only true partially)with the Jews. Jane —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.129.19.206 (talk) 01:14, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I believe, that the preceding article is true. However, when I visited Warsaw in 1938 with my parents, the ghetto existed at one end of the Aleja Jeroslomi--70.48.114.101 (talk) 14:34, 5 October 2010 (UTC)skaja - a main streets of Warsaw. It was surrounded by a wall, provided with a heavy gate, which was wide open. For me as as a teenager it was very interesting to observe poor orthodox Jews , in traditional garb, living in primitive shacks on both sides of the street. Rich Jews used to live in 2 to 3 story apartment houses. The other side of the Jeroslimskaja was full of interesting, curious Catholic cathedrals and churches!

Size of Nazi force

I changed the phrase "large Nazi force" to "Nazi force consisting of several thousand troops" because the former is overly ambiguous (could mean entire divisions), especially considering the tendency of many to conflate the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising with the much larger Warsaw Uprising (by the Polish Home Army). In the article on Juergen Stroop it cites him as saying: "I had two battalions of Waffen-SS, one hundred army men, units of Order Police, and seventy-five to a hundred Security Police people.", which I think makes the phrase "several thousand" close enough to use (more) accurately. Historian932 (talk) 21:30, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Map

It would be helpful to those reading accounts of the Warsaw Ghetto if a map showing the ghetto area and its streets were included with this article.

Sca (talk) 19:42, 10 August 2010 (UTC) Indeed, but it's difficult to find it. Only Polish scholars could be of help ! --Alexandre Rongellion (talk) 16:10, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

quality of the article

More than 50 years after these events, it is about time to make a more scientific approach to the G of W. What strikes me in that article, is the total absence of analysis about the role of the Jewish administration of the Ghetto, the Jewish police, notably the "elder" of the "Judenrat", Tchernakov, who has left a diary. Someone ought to have the courage to write about that. The Tchernakov's diary ( may be it's a mispelling) have been mentionned by the great study of Raul Hillberg and his personnaity has been discussed in the film "Shoah" by the french documentarist Lanzmann --Alexandre Rongellion (talk) 21:42, 10 December 2010 (UTC) I removed the "clean up tags" as several authoritative references have been added. As for the style... dunno.Alexandre Rongellion (talk) 01:25, 17 December 2010 (UTC)