Talk:Welles Declaration

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Footnote citations[edit]

There are better ways to handle multiple citations from a single source. Here is one example. Kaldari (talk) 21:06, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

That is rather primitive way to do so. On other hand this experiment of mine is rather useful. In any case, I don't see a big problem with current system. M.K. (talk) 09:04, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Acting or Under Secretary of State?[edit]

Cordell Hull was Secretary of State from 1933 to 1944, Sumner Welles was Under Secretary of State from 1937 to 1943. In 1940 Cordell Hull was Secretary of State (nominated, confirmed and sworn in). In 1940 Sumner Welles had also been nominated, confirmed and sworn in as Under Secretary of State. In the normal course of events, there is only an "acting Secretary" in the absence of a confirmed nominee (e.g. - L. Patrick Gray as acting Director of the FBI after the death of J. Edgar Hoover). The Under Secretary of State may act in lieu of the Secretary (due to vacation, official travel, etc) but is not normally referred to as "acting Secretary" anymore than a Lieutenant Governor signing a bill when the Governor is unavailable is the "acting Governor," he/she is arguably "acting for the Governor" unless there has been some official transfer of authority (as for instance when the person is undergoing surgery - usually that is referred to as "temporary acting..." - if Sumner Welles was Acting Secretary of State there should be some explanation as to why (e.g. "in the absence of Cordell Hull on diplomatic mission to....") DavisGL (talk) 13:04, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I will reply ASAP. M.K. (talk) 14:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Oh, I see it is already corrected...

Thx, Davis. I think we ought to put the order into its own section - MK do you remember off the top of your head which reference(s) support the connection? If not, I'll figure it out Novickas (talk) 14:44, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, what connection? M.K. (talk) 14:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Directly linking the order and the declaration - for fear of the dreaded OR. Novickas (talk) 14:51, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Oh, it's made in lots of places; no hurry, or maybe no need. Novickas (talk) 14:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
If I understood you correctly, The Baltic question during the Cold War. Routledge. p. 209. ISBN 0415371007. is the source, which covers EOs in Welles declaration theme. M.K. (talk) 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps EOs should be merged with background section? M.K. (talk) 15:09, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
Sounds good. One moment. Novickas (talk) 15:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Additional material[edit]

Currently we are unsure if this part needs to be included, and most importantly where? M.K. (talk) 10:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


Following the April 9, 1940 invasions of Denmark and Norway by Nazi Germany, President Roosevelt issued Executive Order 8389, "regulating transactions in foreign exchange, transfers of credit, and the export of coin and currency". Order 8389 was the first in a series of orders that froze all financial assets held in the United States by European countries as they came under German control. These orders offered both symbolic and practical support, protecting the assets in the expectation that the war's territorial changes would be reversed.[1]:34

Order 8389 was amended on July 10, 1940 via Order 8484 to include Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. The Soviet government condemned the freezing of the Baltic states' assets, asserting that there was no legal basis for suspending the transfer.[1]:35 Sumner Welles addressed the objection in an elaboration:


How about if we shorten it - take out the quote - and put it in right after M-L pact? Novickas (talk) 13:16, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Please try it to do. M.K. (talk) 11:36, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments - second look[edit]

Sorry it took me longer than expected to look at this again. Here are a few nitpicks mostly dealing with WP:PCR issues:

  • I would add the year (1921) to the caption Lithuanian Americans collected over one million signatures demanding de jure recognition of Lithuania from the U.S.
    • Done.
  • If File:Million signatures.jpg was published before 1923 it would be free to use under US copyright law.
  • I would provide more context here Secretary of State Henry L. Stimson formally criticised Japan in 1932, however, and the resulting Stimson Doctrine would go on to serve as a basis for the Welles declaration.[11] Say what Japan did (presumably Manchuria / Manch-kuo) and briefly explain what the Stimson Doctrine is (I know it is wikilinked) by adding something like non-recognition of international territorial changes that were executed by force (stolen from the lead of that article).
  • Similarly I would add a phrase giving the gist of the Quarantine Speech to his 1937 Quarantine Speech[, advocating an international "quarantine of the aggressor nations" as an alternative to American neutrality and isolationism,] had met mixed responses.
  • I would add that the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was between Nazi Germany and the USSR
    • Done.
  • I would say who was deprted in About 30,000 Soviet troops entered the Baltic states during June 1940, followed by deportations.[15]
    • changed 'followed by deportations' to followed by arrests of its leaders and citizens. The current ref mentions 2,000 arrests in Lithuania, let me know if refs for other baltic states in June/early July 1940 are needed.
  • Would it make sense to have an "Impact" section with "During World War II" and "Postwar" as subsections?
    • Done.
  • The article uses {{cquote}} but according the documentation at Template:Cquote this is for pull quotes only, and this should probably use {{blockquote}} instead.
    • The thing about the blockquote template I don't like - no reference field in there. Ideas?
  • Last sentence should probably have a ref.
    • The late 20th century independence movements were complex - in the interest of brevity, replaced with all were recognized by UN in 1991 & ref. Moved the independence movement WP articles to the See Also section, altho maybe it should be made clear they refer to the late 20th century movements rather than earlier.
  • Would it help to add a locator map showing the Baltic States?
    • Done.

Hope this helps, other than these fairly minor points I do not see any problems with this meeting GA. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 16:13, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Marked some points as done - Novickas (talk) 14:53, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
    • ^ Cite error: The named reference QUEST was invoked but never defined (see the help page).