|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Wellesley College article.|
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
- 1 Traditions
- 2 Popular Culture
- 3 Uncited Information
- 4 Fuck Truck
- 5 Alumnae vs. alumni
- 6 Requested move
- 7 A Civilized Debate on the Senate Bus
- 8 Senate Bus & Parties
- 9 RECRUITING POSTERS !
- 10 Proposed merge with Wellesley Centers for Women
The traditions section is accurate as far as I know (although I graduated in 2004). However, it doesn't cite its sources. Scouttle 07:39, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
- The Dyke Ball seems to be tradition. Why does it not have its own stub, with pictures and more info since everyone knows about it. --Margrave1206 (talk) 05:56, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
A great college. Hillary Rodham Clinton came here.
There seems to be a lot of pop culture references to this institution being full of lesbians, e.g. Family Guy. Can somebody incorporate this in the article, or at least mention something about the lesbian community or organization on campus?--Sonjaaa 02:25, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
- I created a "Wellesley in popular culture" section. You can add the Family Guy reference to that section if you want, since I'm not familiar with it. I may be able to write more about the queer community/organization on campus later on... that would require some research. Catamorphism 02:55, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I removed these sentences from the article because there was no citation for them. If someone has one, feel free to put them back in, but without one, I thought it was just speculation.
"When the trustees appeared about to name a man as president in 1911, the Wellesley Club of Minneapolis protested that they did not want a man in their "Adamless Eden," and they prevailed. Rumor has it that during the brief period when a man served as interim president, Galen Stone Tower (a belltower and the college's tallest building), was struck by lightning." RKWarren 15:34, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
- While I do not have a citation for this information. I have attended this institution and I heard this on an official college tour. Though, just the part about the tower being struck by lightening while there was the male president.--Rellicelli 14:59, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I have not tampered with the text of the entry, but I do question whether the author of the section titled Student Life has any verification that it is appropriate to include Emily Dickenson in a list of graduates from women's colleges. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 10:18, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
Through two deleiton debates, there was consensus that the Wellesley College Senate Bus was suficiently notable to merit its own article. If a Wellesley shuttle bus is notable enough to merit its own article, it is certainly notable enough to deserve a brief mention, along with its more widely known colloquial name (fuck truck) in the Wellesley article. Please stop reverting this. If you don't think this shuttle bus is notable enough to be on Wikipedia, I suggest you pursue that issue on the bus's article. Thanks. Interestingstuffadder 06:26, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
the fuck truck reference may be notable, but parents and students researching colleges should be able to read this article without being offended. it doesn't matter that wikipedia is not censored-- the point is context. that information is not appropriate in the context of this article. i am going to keep removing it. Melmoththewanderer 15:45, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
- Umm..wikipedia not being censored means we dont worry about whether parents or student are offended. frankly, since this bus is a legitimate part of social life at wellesley, there seems to be a strong argument to include this for the information of prospective students...this information would certainly not be available in a viewbook. perhaps this is further evidence that my earlier admonition that wikipedia is not a viewbook is true. Interestingstuffadder 22:59, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
"not being censored" doesn't mean that every single piece of information belongs in the main article. there is a separate article for the senate bus. your piece of trivia belongs there, not in the main article. Melmoththewanderer 23:42, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
As a Wellesley College student, I can provide evidence that students have been most recently referring to the Senate Bus as the "loser cruiser," in honor of the dissapointed male party-goers who are sent home alone after high expectations of an actual "fuck truck," so if your goal is to be most accurate...--Swellesley1 (talk) 13:41, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
And I can affirm that I never heard the bus referred to as the F-T during my years at Wellesley in the 1980s. This seems far from notable! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 17:40, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Alumnae vs. alumni
I'm one of the enlightened wikipedians who knows that Wellesley College prefers the word "alumnae" to "alumni" when discussing its students. Sadly, a decision was made Oct. 10, 2006 that the wikipedia category Category:Wellesley College alumnae should be renamed to Category:Wellesley College alumni to conform with the "convention" by which most other institutions call their former students "alumni." Anyone well familiar with Wellesley knows that the word "alumnae" is preferred and that "alumni" is borderline insulting, both being dismissive of the students' and institution's favored word, and ignoring the better word, which is accepted in modern English dictionaries. I started a discussion  to put it back the way it was, with the correct English (and Latin) word used. My battle with other Wikipedia users on this matter was ruled to be a draw, and the imposed spelling of "alumni" still stands. Does anybody have any brilliant ideas of how to get alumnae back as the proper word? Dbackeberg 14:05, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
- Referring to those people as "alumni" is not only wrong, but it is ignorant.
- The word "alumni" is a masculine noun.(!)
17:25, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
A Civilized Debate on the Senate Bus
On one hand...
Wikipedia is not censored, and hence the alternate refernce to the Senate bus can not be omitted on the basis of vulgarity. Furthermore, the fact that the Bus itself is well known enough to merit its own article suggests that significant factoids about the shuttle (for example, the name most students know it by) should be included on the college's main page.
- Interestingstuffadder supports this position.
On the other hand...
Many parents and students use Wikipedia as a means to research colleges. The inclusion of vulgar and suggestive material in the college's main article could offend people and detract from the overall quality of the article. Furthermore, since the Senate bus already has it's own article, there is no need to include its alternate name in the Wellesley College article.
- Melmoththewanderer supports this position.
The debate over this issue is casting a negative shadow over the entire article. We need to reach a community agreement quickly so that the focus moves away from a revert war and towards improving the article to FA status. FYI, I do not have (and will not take) a position either way.
i don't even think the senate bus IS well known enough to warrant its own article. the senate bus article was created by Interestingstuffadder and his original version not only declined to refer to it by its real name, but was full of vapid rumors and innuendo about what harvard and mit students allegedly think about wellesley students, as if that's the sort of gossip that belongs in wikipedia.
i attended both wellesley and harvard, and i heard the term "fuck truck" exactly once, and it was used ironically. it's not relevant enough to be in the main article about the college. in fact i'm tempted to nominate the senate bus article for deletion, because the senate bus and the exchange bus, which is used for academic exchange programs with other colleges, are the same thing. the list of stops the bus makes simply changes a little after the day's classes are out.
Melmoththewanderer 17:52, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- The article seems pretty well sourced as it is now. However, this doesn't imply notability. Since it hasn't been nominated for deletion in a while, you could give AfD a go in order to draw more community input on the article. I'll leave this up to you. It's likely that many people will want to merge the two articles together, which could mean a longer mention of the shuttle on the Wellesley page. It would be good if we could get more folks to comment on this. I'll drop a note for some other mediators to look at the debate, and please feel free to invite other non-mediating users into the conversation as well. →Bobby← 19:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
The fact remains, though, that the Senate Bus and its common nickname -- "Fuck Truck" -- are notable and verifiable, as demonstrated by references 1) in the national media, 2) in local media, and 3) in campus media. I have provided numerous sources demonstrating this. Even if this is the Exchange Bus with different stops is not particularly important since the concept of the "Fuck Truck" has taken on a life of its own and the shuttle has become independently notable, as evidenced by these media references. The above user's main interest seems to be in removing information that may reflect poorly on Wellesley and the user has repeatedly admitted this. I, on the other hand, have based my argumenton valid wikipedia guidelines every step of the way. My suggestion to the user, if she thinks (as she may) that the article on student life gives disproportionate attention to the Fuck Truck, would be to add more notable and verifiable content to this section. It can reflect well on Wellesley (and probably will, since a lot of good things happen there) so long as it, like the information I added, contains references establishing notability and verifiability. By the way, I am a Harvard graduate myself and heard frequent references to the "Fuck Truck" (wikipedia taught me that its official name is the "Senate Bus"). This seems to fit with the media attention.
In short, the Senate Bus / Fuck Truck is a notable and verifiable part of student life at Wellesley (as demonstrated by multiple references) and should not be defeated as a result of a crusade by a Wellesley alum to eliminate material that may reflect poorly on her fine alma mater. Thank you. Interestingstuffadder 19:13, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- Also, unclear why this is less notable than wellesley having "many a capella vocal groups" (an assertion that lacks any references btw). Interestingstuffadder 19:27, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- Hi Interestingstuffadder! As I mentioned above, the article on the Senate bus is well researched (I'd expect nothing less from a Harvard grad) and well written. In fact, it's quality is higher than many on Wikipedia. I must admit I'm not overly familiar with the Boston Area College Transit System, but I'll take your word that the bus is known by its more risque nickname among students in the area.
- If you'd allow me to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, I'd ask why it is so imperative that the shuttle's nickname be included on the Wellesley College Page? If we simply added a link, the first sentence people would see after following the link would offer the alternate naming. This might be preferable for a few reasons:
- 1. It would settle an editorial conflict with no loss of content (since the information would still be preserved on the Senate bus page.
- 2. It's possible that Wellesley students do not use the same nickname for the bus. Thus, the inclusion on the college's wiki page is not helping to expand a reader's knowledge about Wellesley.
- 3. It would standardize our coverage of the schools that the shuttle services. Neither the Harvard or MIT articles mention the "fuck truck". While I understand that the shuttle is run by Wellesley, its inclusion in the article seems to have less to do with it being a service the college offers, and more to do with student life. Hence, it should either show up in all 3 articles, or none of them.
- Please note, my above comments are not a critique. My goal is not to take sides, but rather to reach an agreement that leaves everyone happy. I'd just like feedback on the above 3 ideas in order to better understand your side of the debate. Thanks for keeping a civil and logical tone, and I look forward to reading your further thoughts on the matter. →Bobby← 19:42, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for the comments and the kind words. I continue to oppose removing the "fuck truck" language for the following reasons (in response to your specific points):
- 1. There would be a loss of content if we removed this nickname, as "fuck truck" is central to the bus's notability , a notability which is largely attributable to the bus's social role. Also, I am yet to see any justifications for removing this content that go far beyond "this makes Wellesley look bad", a rationale that, according to wikipedia guidelines, should be immediately dismissed.
- 2. The Senate Bus article provides evidence that the bus is known as the fuck truck among Wellesley students (student publication and minutes from student government meeting, if I recall correctly). Even if Welleslry students do not use this term as frequently as do students at the other two schools, the fact that this bus has received quite a bit of press coverage from outside of Wellesley (which consistenly, by the way, brings up the "fuck truck" nickname) suggests that the bus's and the nickname's existence are notable facts about Wellesley student life: inclusion on wilipedia is based on verifiability and notability, not upon the perceptions of people associated with the article's subject.
- 3. I would be fine with inserting this in the other articles. I thought wellesley was the first priority because the bus is run by wellesley and is primarily utilized by Wellesley students.
Thanks. Interestingstuffadder 20:04, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- All good points. Just for clarification, I'd like to point out that I wasn't suggesting (through my first point) that the fuck truck reference be removed from Wikipedia. I was only proposing that it is possible nothing would be lost by limiting the nickname to the shuttle's main article. Since it doesn not appear you feel this is the case, we obviously need to continue our discussion, which I will do in the next section. →Bobby← 20:17, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
== a few sensationalist mentions in the media do not mean that it's a notable or relevant part of life at wellesley. when the nickname is used at all at wellesley, it's used ironically. the idea of taking "the fuck truck" to the hockney exhibit at the museum of fine arts is funny. it's a joke, which you don't seem to understand. people have edited the senate bus article in the past to reflect that fact that the nickname is mostly facetious, and you always remove it, intent on perpetrating the misconception that it's a serious and relevant part of student life. which i repeat, it is not.
i don't particularly think the abundance of a capella groups is a notable part of life at wellesley either, but at least it doesn't give a deliberately false impression of student life, which your misplaced emphasis on the fuck truck epithet does.
the bus also, by the way, stops at boston university, the MFA, and several other places around the city. and since the academic exchange program has been extended to babson and brandeis et al., i believe it stops at even more places than it did when i was a student. the fact that you've limited your description of it to harvard and mit is even more evidence that you're not actually familiar enough with it to know whether it's notable or relevant. the photo of the bus is out of date as well. they haven't used that bus line in over 10 years.
what is the problem with simply leaving the nickname in the senate bus article? why does it HAVE to be in the main article?
Melmoththewanderer 21:04, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
== one more thing... at the risk of sounding like i'm making an ad hominem attack, the original senate bus article written by Interestingstuffadder was not terribly well-written or well-researched. it was heavily edited and cleaned up by other users. and given that Interestingstuffadder is a teenager according to his user page, i am skeptical of his claim that he is a harvard grad.
this is his original article. it's a mess lies, rumors, and gossip, and in my opinion greatly diminishes his credibility:
Fuck Truck is a longstanding slam term for the shuttle bus that runs from Wellesley College to Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. The trip takes approximately 45 minutes. It is widely shared perception among Harvard amd MIT male students that Wellesley students are eager to have sex because Wellesley is a females-only institution. As a result, talk of the fuck truck is a common laugh line on these campuses. Not surprisingly, the fuck truck earns frequent mentions in Harvard's student-published humor magazines.The Fuck Truck gained national notoriety when it, and the general sexual eagerness of those Wellesley women who are not lesbians, was discussed in a 2001 Rolling Stone Magazine article entitled The Highly Charged Erotic Life of the Wellesley Girl. This article and other media attention given to the fuck truck and Wellesley's party scene in general caused concern among the college's administration.
Melmoththewanderer 23:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- Respond and propose compromise Yes, that was the initial article, which i wrote over a year ago. I have very much been a part of the process of improving this article. I don't see why showing that an article started off in a rought form proves much, as most do. I also don't understand why 1) the history of this article 2) who I am (although where on my userpage does it say I am a teenager? I am not) 3) any underlying motives you might perceive have anything to do with whether this information should be included if this information accords with wikipedia guidelines. Also, I would be more than happy to acknowledge that this nickname is used jokingly; perhaps, then, language along the lines of "some students jokingly refer..." would be a good compromise solution. However, the fact that this is a joke does not mean that it is not sufficiently notable and verifiable to be included in the article. Interestingstuffadder 23:38, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
-- i do not accept any compromise that includes the use of the words "fuck truck" in the main wellesley college article. it's in the senate bus article. that's more than enough.
Melmoththewanderer 23:45, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Roughdraft for Shuttle Bus Passage
Since it seems to be pretty clear that some mention of the bus will appear on the Wellesley page (I'm not necassarily saying the words "fuck truck" will appear, only that the Wellesley College Senate bus will) it might be a good time to start playing around with different formats. This way, we can fine tune the wording without performing lots of edits and reverts on the article's page. For this workshop, please do not delete anything! If you feel some wording needs to go, use the <s>''text''</s> format so that everyone can easily see
alterations changes. Using bold and italics might also help this. Let's begin:
- The college's social network has extended to MIT and Harvard via the Wellesley College Senate bus which shuttles students between the nearby schools on weekends.
Make any comments about above edits down here. Using bullets (asterisk) to preface a comment helps readability. That's all for now. Go at it, be bold and have fun! →Bobby← 20:27, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
the section on student life already contains the following line: "To facilitate cross-registration, the College operates a bus to MIT campus in Cambridge, Massachusetts."
given that the "senate bus" and MIT exchange bus are the same thing, i think that line should be edited as follows:
- The College operates a shuttle to MIT, Harvard University, Boston University, the Museum of Fine Arts, and several other locations in the Boston Area.
i repeat that i don't think the article on the senate bus, or the mention of its nickname, are necessary at all, but linking the word shuttle to the senate bus article would be an acceptable compromise to me.
Melmoththewanderer 22:41, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- It is unclear to me why we can't include the name of this bus, especially given that it has its own wikipedia article. What is wrong with including this information? Wait, I know: this user wants to be certain that there is no information in this article that could potentially reflect poorly on Wellesley. Frankly, I don't understand what purpose this process is serving when it is so clear that all arguments presented against including information on this shuttle service -- including the name by which many students know it and for which it has received widespread media attention -- are based on a desire to exclude this content because it may reflect poorly on Wellesley. Also, please observe Melmoththewanderer's personal attack against me on my usertalk. Additionally, it may be helpful to note that am a long term, experienced editor while my "opponent"'s edits seem limited to these attempts to cleanse this page. Interestingstuffadder 23:04, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
-- 1) it's not an attack; it's a legitimate question. you've claimed to be a harvard grad to support your position that the nickname is common among boston-area students. you're the one who put that issue on the table, and if it's false, it affects your credibility.
2) the senate bus only has a wikipedia article because YOU created one. you're bolstering your claim of notability with propaganda that you are responsible for.
3) like i said, i don't object to including the name of the bus in the main article. the real name, not the nickname. though i think calling it the senate bus is a little misleading because the senate bus and the exchange bus are functionally the same thing, and the distinction isn't really important. referring to them collectively as a shuttle is more accurate.
4) you're incorrect about my concern for how the nickname reflects on wellesley. my concern, and i've stated this repeatedly, is that it's not accurate. it's not the name "by which many students know it." like i said, in my 7 years at wellesley and harvard, i heard it a total of once. it's not as notable as you insist it is. if i compiled a list of every factoid about wellesley that has been mentioned in one or two newspapers and put all of it in the wikipedia article, it would be 10,000 pages long. plus, it's already mentioned in the senate bus article. putting it in the main article is redundant, misleading, and detracts from the quality of the article.
Melmoththewanderer 23:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- 1) It is a question to which I cannot respond conclusively without revealing my identity. Or maybe I can respond by giving info that only students and grads are likely to know. I know that Dunster House is next to Mather House and Dunster House puts on an opera each year. I know the Dunster mascot is the moose. I know that Peabody Terrace is graduate housing. I know that the dining halls are all you can eat and they moved to a new system of food preparation a few years ago. I know that "The Literature of Social Reflection" is a notorious gut (though I did so little that I ended up with an A-). I know that, while Cornell thinks Harvard-Cornell hockey is a big rivalry almost no one at Harvard other than hockey players knows about it and this is a big joke around campus. I know that people form "blocking groups" to select their post freshman year housing. I know that people who end up living in the Quad (which used to be Radcliffe housing and is far away from the yard) are said to have been "Quadded". Need more. Hope this helps.
2)I created it, but it is supported by multiple references and has survived two deletion debates. Additionally, as you point out above, though I created this article, many other users have contributed to it.
3) But if the nickame is notable and verifiable, why not include it? I am more than happy to a compromise solution that would make clear that this terminology is used jokingly.
4)We are talking about multiple publications, one of which is a major national magazine. If this kind of evidence were considered insufficient to establish notability and verifiability, a substantial portion of what now appears on wikipedia could be deleted. If it is notable and verifiable it does not detract from the quality of the article; if it does, tell us how, but be sure to support your argument using valid wikipedia rationales (so far you have only made this point about parents and students).
Thanks. Interestingstuffadder 23:55, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
i don't know how many times i can say this, but it's simply not as notable as you are claiming. i don't know how you expect me to prove a negative proposition. are you looking for me to produce rolling stone articles that say "no one really calls it that, and it's inaccurate and misleading to claim that they do"?
doesn't the fact that there have been two attempts to delete the article suggest to you that it's perhaps not as notable as you claim it is? if some people think the article shouldn't even exist, how can you keep insisting it's notable enough to be included in the main article? it's a shuttle bus. that's all it is.
i will not accept any compromise that includes the use of the nickname in the main article. period.
Melmoththewanderer 00:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
- This has been proposed for deletion, I suspect, because people are offended by the term "fuck truck", just as you are. It has survived those debates. I do not expect you to prove a negative proposition. But I do expect you to directly counter my arguments rather than responding with vague generalities and personal attacks. Interestingstuffadder 00:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
no, it's been proposed for deletion because it's inaccurate and not notable. those are both valid reasons for information to not be included in an article. as bobby the mediator said, being well-sourced does not imply notability. i don't know how many different ways i can say "no one calls it that." like i said before, if i took every random piece of info that's appeared in print about wellesley and decided that makes it notable, this article would be 10,000 pages long.
i notice from your edit history that people revert a lot of your additions, and you always respond by citing random sources, which doesn't really address the issue. if i can spend 7 years in the wellesley/harvard community and hear the phrase once (and as a joke), how notable is it, exactly? what value is added by including it in the article? what is a person who reads it expected to assume, and is that assumption accurate?
i'll answer for you: no. it's misleading and inaccurate. why do you continue to insist that misleading and inaccurate information is notable?
Melmoththewanderer 01:05, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
and here's a further question, which i have asked before and you still haven't answered: why does the nickname HAVE to be in the main article, when it's already in the senate bus article? what is to be gained by having it in both places? since there's clearly a dispute over whether it's notable, why won't you cede a little ground and be satisfied with using the bus's real name in the main article and the nickname in the bus's article?
Melmoththewanderer 02:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Sorry About the Delay
I got a bit tied up last night and didn't have a chance to check in on the progress of this discussion. You've both added a lot of food for thought. However, we are obviously still butting heads over the issue of whether or not "fuck truck" should appear anywhere in the Wellesley article. The sides are pretty clear. Melmoth does not want the nickname (although she has agreed that linking to the Senate bus article is acceptable) and Interesting wants to keep the phrase. I'm a little sad to say that without each side giving a little ground, this debate is likely going to get bumped over to the "serious" mediators. At Cabal, we just try and get the parties to reach a mutually beneficial agreement without forcing an outcome. Even though I have only been involved with this case for a couple of days, it seems clear that neither of you are going to give in without being forced to. I greatly admire this dedication, and only wish that I could somehow garner a compromise that makes you both happy. Before I formally recomend that this case be taken to the next level, I'd like to challange each of your positions and hear your responses. I'll do this in the following sections. Please feel free to comment on each other's responses.
My challange for you is rather simple: Prove your claims that the term "fuck truck" does not belong in the Wellesley article because the term is not widely used at the college. Right now, your arguments stem from the fact that you personally have only heard it once while spending 7 years split between the two schools. While this certainly is a fair point, it is not a good Wikipoint, since Wikipedia is not a place for original research. Try to debunk the claim of notability by using your own sources (or refuting the sources Interestingstuffadder has cited). From my perspective, if the term truly is as widely used and notable as suggested by your opponenet, then it probably deserves a place on the Wellesley page because it's a novel, somewhat risque phrase that many people will find interesting (and I would argue that parents looking at schools deserve to know what their daughter will be subjected to). If, on the other hand, it is a term used in small circles at the other schools in the area, then there is no reason to mention it on the college's page. Please avoid arguments that mention the actually content of the Senate bus article (since we are not debating it) and please do not try and use arguments challanging Interestingstuffadder's character, for we are not interested in personalities but rather content. Thanks for your deep insights in this debate, and please take your time to compose a strong argument for your side. →Bobby← 14:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I have admired your dedication to an issue which many editors would consider trivial. However, I am concerned about your motives. I would ask you to consider why exactly you feel so strongly that the term "fuck truck" needs to appear on the Wellesley page. I still am not convinced that providing a link to the Senate bus article (which prominently features the term) is not a reasonable compromise. I also suspect you will have more luck getting links placed on the Harvard and MIT pages (as well as the schools Melmoth mentions above) without the vulgar terminology. While Wikipedia is certainly not censored, there is no reason to avoid being discreet, especially if doing so can settle a fierce debate. I will also mention that your opponent (melmoth) has offered an olive branch by agreeing to link to the shuttle's article. I have not seen a similar compromise from you as of yet. Perhaps removing the blatent use of "fuck truck" would be all the ground you'd need to give. I think it would even be possible to tease the subject a little bit (for example: "Students at Wellesley have easy access to other colleges via the Senate bus, which has earned a reputation for connecting more than just campuses.") I know it's not a great example, but there's certainly room to be subtle and suggestive at the same time. Finally, I will note that if this issue goes to formal mediation (and perhaps arbitration) it is quite likely that the all mention of the bus will get cut. At my alma mater (Hamilton College '06) there is a van known as the jitney which brings students to the mall and bars on weekends. While the jitney is often mentioned in our school paper, and occasionally in the town paper, you will find no mention of it on my school's page. The reason for this is that Wikipedia is not a college catalogue. Just as there is no reason for a college's page to list all available courses, or all available residence halls, I feel pretty confident that the community as a whole will not see a need for the Wellesley page to mention a means of transit. All I'm trying to point out with this, is that by giving a bit of ground and removing the phrase "fuck truck", you can ensure that a link to the Senate bus article remains. I'm not sure if this will be the case if we go beyond the current level. Thus, if your true intention is to provide information (and you are not simply trying to make a point) I feel it would be best to settle the issue now. Thanks for your extremely civil tone during the above discussions, and please let me know what you think of my above ramblings. →Bobby← 15:10, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
- I think the term "fuck truck" needs to be present in the article because there is strong evidence that the bus is better known by that term than "senate bus" among students at the three institutions. At least this was my experience as a student for four years at one of them--I never heard the term "senate bus" but heard "fuck truck" a lot (i know this is not a valid wiki argument, but if my opponent wants to go there, I might as well also). As for yout point about the jitney at Hamilton College -- well taken. However, the sources included here go beyond campus and local papers. They include at least one discussion of the "truck" in a major national publication (Rolling Stone). Also, it is unclear to me that a shuttle service that, according to numerous independent sources, is a major feature of Wellesley social life is not notable enough to be included in a discussion on student life that includes the name by which most students know it. Something tells me if this nickname were "River Hopper" or something rather than "Fuck Truck", there would be no issue with including the more common usage.
- As for my opponents commentary on my edit history, I am the first to admit that I make provocative edits. I firmly believe that much content is excluded from wikipedia simply because it is provocatove, despite the fact that it is as notable as any other information in an article. I consider this to be a systemic bias that detracts from the quality of the encyclopedia and, yes, amounts to censorship. I general succeed in winning inclusion for these additions, as most people opposing my edits -- like my opponent here -- are unable to cite valid wikipedia rationales and make pretty obvious that they are simply offended by the content and have no argument to back up their proposed deleiton.
- Also worth noting is that I have added plenty of non-provocative content, have created articles, have reverted vandalism, have participated in deletion debates and have been a good wiki-citizen (and in the course of so doing have amassed well over 500 edits (maybe 1000, I haven't checked in awhile. My opponent, on the other hand seems to be a single-issue editor with a clear personal bias (so clearly not NPOV), has engaged in personal attacks against me, and has demonstrated an utter ignorance of wikipedia guidelines re inclusion. I would go so far as to say, to apply legal terminology, that this should not go to the next level because I should win at this point on summary judgment. That is, my opponent has failed to present any valid wikipedia argument whatsoever for her position and, as such, should not be allowed to extend this process simply by spewing vitriol. Interestingstuffadder 16:25, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
== i don't know how you expect me to prove that the term is NOT used at the college. how do you prove that something doesn't happen?
i've proposed a compromise and if the other party will not be reasonable, i'm prepared for this to go to formal mediation. Melmoththewanderer 00:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- I dont expect you to prove that. My argument is that what matters is the media attention, not personal observations by students. Interestingstuffadder 02:01, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
i wasn't responding to you. if you'll read bobby's response to me, it says: "Prove your claims that the term "fuck truck" does not belong in the Wellesley article because the term is not widely used at the college." i don't see how it's possible to prove that something isn't said. though you may want to note that the criterion he's applying is wide-spread use by students, not media attention. perhaps you should reconsider the compromise. if not, it's time for mediation. Melmoththewanderer 02:10, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- Reply - In order to prove that the term is not as widely used, I'd ask you to look over the sources Interestingstuffadder has cited and see if you can poke holes in any of his rationales for including the info in the Wellesley article. For example, if the articles do not provide evidence that the term is used in the Wellesley community, then the information does not need to be included in the college's article. Doing so would give the potentially false impression that Wellesley students refer to the Senate bus as the "fuck truck". We would clearly want to avoid this misinformation. →Bobby← 14:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- It would be great if you could maintain a more civil tone. I don't understand why you need to take this whole process so personally. Interestingstuffadder 02:50, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
i think i was being perfectly civil. is that a "no" on the compromise? Melmoththewanderer 03:29, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Senate Bus & Parties
Here is more info on the senate bus, and other info about Wellesley. Why not add the name the students use for the bus! Since wiki is filled with articles of college slang, is it not? I am sure you all recall the LUG article. I must say that I am far from being impressed by these so called institutions of learning. What happened to academia?--Margrave1206 (talk) 05:06, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
RECRUITING POSTERS !
Nearly all of this article reads like some kind of a recruiting document for not-very-smart high-school students to attend Wellesley. This is not the purpose of the Wikipedia. Furthermore, most of the article is prima facie trivial and ridiculous. Thus article is prima facie amateurishly written. Shameful!
Furthermore, there is nothing at all in this article about the major courses of study at Wellesley College, the strengths and weaknesses of its various departments and groups of faculty members.
Even the name of the president of Wellesley is stated as a hyperlink to another article, but that article does not exist. Would not it be worthwhile to at least state a couple of sentences about the college's president? Maybe some mention of its vice-presidents, provost, etc. -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 17:40, June 29, 2010