Talk:William S. Burroughs

Inconsistencies

How does a man who attended Harvard at 18 drop out nearly ten years later to attempt to join the Navy and/or OSS? The intro needs a re-work.

Insearchfortruth's edits

Can we please have a discussion here about the recent edits by Insearchfortruth? I take issue with this user's refusal to explain his edits with an edit summary, and his (or her) removal of material. The addition of sourced material, obviously, is not a problem, but in the absence of an explanation, his wholesale changes look suspect to me. All I want is some kind of explanation of the changes being made, in keeping with Wikipedia policy and precedent. Is that too much to ask? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 02:10, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Here is my examination of the edits:

First, as far as the quote from Queer is concerned, I went back through the page history and found that the quote was added by an anonymous user, using a dodgy webpage as a source. Later, the source was changed, but the quote was never checked for accuracy. So, there is one mystery solved.

As for the rest... The long quotes about homosexuality in the '50s are unnecessary and do not add to the understanding of the topic, which is Burroughs.

This passage, in particular, is unnecessary:

In any case, although Burroughs started writing before the shooting of Joan Vollmer, the fact remains that he did not become a full time writer but after the shooting and that this event marked him, and one could argue his work too, for the rest of his life.

Unless you are actually quoting Morgan, that should go.

Some minor points should be made about the linking of dates, which is no longer done, spelling, and the formatting of refs. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:01, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

• Response to the (apparently now removed) reference to Morgan. I am completely baffled as to why you feel that should go. It's sourced and it takes people directly to the page where Morgan makes this statement. Have you never written a university thesis? There is noi requirement that we directly quote anybody. If we take their information and we source it, then that's good enough. I'm putting that one back, although I am improving the wording and of course am adjusting it to fit into the new format as the section originally containing it has been substantially changed. I think it's a fair comment, and it's sourced, and other sources can be found to support it, not the least of which is Burroughs' own words such as his introduction to Queer and I think even in Last Words though don't quote me on that. 23skidoo (talk) 13:03, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
• On the other hand, I do support RepublicanJacobite's removal of the digression regarding homosexuality taken from Queer which was completely off-topic. This is an article on William S Burroughs not an article on homosexuality. 23skidoo (talk) 18:50, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

• I agree with both of User:23skidoo's points. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:52, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Let's discuss it

Republican:

There was no vandalism in the editing I made, I just added missing information. Why do you insist in misquoting the introduction to Queer[1]? Your "quotation" reads like this:

"I am forced to the appalling conclusion that I would have never become a writer but for Joan's death... I live with the constant threat of possession, for control. So the death of Joan brought me in contact with the invador [sic], the Ugly Spirit, and maneuvered me into a life long struggle, in which I have had no choice except to write my way out"

Whereas the original text reads: "I live with the constant threat of possesion, and the constant need to escape from possesion, from control" You can read the original text in the following address http://realitystudio.org/texts/queer/introduction/

It seems to me there is a great difference between "living with a constant threat of possession for control" and "living with a constant threat of possession and a constant need to escape from possesion, from control"

All changes I've made are supported by quotations taken from reliable sources, that is, from sources previously cited. insearchforthruth (talk) 04:25, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Much of the info being added is from Russell, Jamie, Queer Burroughs which is a book of literary criticism of a particular slant; How about sticking to biography and leave criticism in the criticism section which you deleted? Opiumjones 23 (talk) 11:27, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi again Opium:

I don't agree that the book I quote is just about literary criticism. Most of it uses biographical information about Burroughs life (i.e. homosexuality), not only in relation with his literary work but also in relation to the context this information belongs to. Also , I don't think it is proper to include moral judgements about the writer's life, such as the one that is made about his relationship with his son. I agreed to remove the jugment I had made about his being responsible or not of "taking care of his family". So I guess we must keep on the collective editing.insearchforthruth (talk) 14:00, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Article Length

The details of this article surpass 'encyclopedic'. Many of the anacdotes/details are unnecessary and are more suitable for an actual biography (most likely their original source anyway).Pirchlogan (talk) 18:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Ali's Smile: Naked Scientology

Hello. Has anyone else here noticed that the article for "Ali's Smile: Naked Scientology" features background information that suggests Scientology influenced Burroughs while writing the Ticket that Exploded, and Nova Express? I know alot about Burroughs (probably not as much as some of the people here) but I've never come across anything that implies Scientology had any direct influence on anything other than his essays on the subject and the short story Ali's Smile. And I remember nothing related to Scientology in the books. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.63.206.30 (talk) 04:48, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Dolophine and Adolph Hitler

For those interested in Methadone; I have traced the origin of a common fallacy regarding the naming of this drug to William Burroughs.

In his novel Junkie, the author, when recounting his stay in the federal narcotics facility of Lexington Kentucky, states that as an inmate he was treated with "a synthetic horror, named Dolophine, appropriately named after Adolph Hitler".

Proir to this mention in Junkie literature holds almost no mention of the drug variously known as Polamidon; Poladone; Methadone; Physeptone ... Since this mention the fable is repeated time and again. Hence William S Burroughs, wittingly or not, promulgated this long lived urban myth.

In actuality the brand name Dolophine was coined by an American company when it purchased the patent for free;as spoils of war. The drug was originally patented by a German company, with the original name Polamidon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.93.147.43 (talk) 23:34, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Main photo

The current main photo of Burroughs is a poor choice with bad composition, no character revelation, and barely even captures his appearance. I'm not savvy on what makes a photo legitimate for this Wiki, but if anyone know of a better photo that can be used, please upload. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.169.200.111 (talk) 07:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I tried but my attempt failed. Courtesy of user RepublicanJacobite --Алый Король (talk) 17:31, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

You changed the picture twice, both times with no edit summary, which indicates a lack of respect for your fellow editors. I simply ask that you provide a reason for changing the image. This response to a 21-month-old talk page comment is hardly adequate. ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 17:35, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

So, User:Алый Король, provide a reason... I happen to agree that the picture you added today is/was a vast improvement over the birthday pic. 2¢. --Seduisant (talk) 17:42, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

The picture that I added better than current because image depicts a writer in a good angle (captures his appearance) without imposing shadows, without strangers in the background. I really think that its obvious and dont understand why I should explain it to someone --Алый Король (talk) 18:24, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit summaries are requested so that other editors can see what changes you have made and why. Their use shows respect for your fellow editors. It should never be assumed that something is "obvious." See WP:EDSUM ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 00:42, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

ok, I will know. And what about replacing image? Everybody wait for your permission? :) --Алый Король (talk) 06:47, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

While this should obviously be debated civilly, I do agree that the new image is a vast improvement. Sir Richardson (talk) 21:31, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Book up for deletion

One of the reasons why I've stopped editing very much on Wikipedia is the elitist view of a lot of people as to what justifies an article. And the fact people seem to be content with having an incomplete encyclopedia. Anyway, for anyone who cares, I have had to created an Articles for Deletion discussion on The Adding Machine: Collected Essays because someone else attempted to have it deleted without debate. I support keeping it. The debate is here for anyone who wants to support the article, or not. 23skidoo (talk) 20:24, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Triple Bypass

Could someone add a line about his triple bypass surgery? Not essential, but still just as vital as some other facts. No? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Torsrthidesen (talk • contribs) 16:18, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Not without a reference. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 01:48, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Added reference! Sorry for forgetting it the first time! Friends? --Torsrthidesen (talk) 01:13, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I filled in some missing information on your ref., but the source looks solid. Something from one of the biographies would be even better. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 01:35, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Category "Gay writers" rather than "Bisexual writers"

The only women W.S. Burroughs ever bedded with were a few female prostitutes in his youth (when he was too shy and self-conscious to dare approaching a male partner) and his common-law wife Joan Vollmer (they were more friends than lovers). Burroughs was a self-confessed misogynist and always stressed his primary and overwhelming preference of male sexual partners over female ones. He never defined himself as a bisexual man but rather as a gay man and boy-lover. Putting him in the "Bisexual writers" category only because he slept with a few women in his early life seems totally inaccurate and misleading. To be categorized as bisexual would call for a regular bisexual behaviour throughout life, which was not at all his case.—Ana Bruta (talk) 18:48, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Issues with the lead

There are two wrong or misleading sentences in the lead section:

(1) "He found success with two confessional novels: Junkie (1953) and Queer (published 1985), being cited as one of the first people to use the terms self-referentially." -- It is misleading to say he "found success" with Queer when it was only published at the end of a long career.

(2) "...he is perhaps best known for his third novel Naked Lunch (1959), in which he popularized the literary cut-up technique." -- Naked Lunch is not a cut-up novel. The article itself says he didn't learn the cut-up technique from Gysin until after Naked Lunch was published. Jd4v15 (talk) 20:59, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Both of those are good points, and I agree that they should be changed or removed. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 22:27, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

OK, I updated the lead as above (and tried to clean up some bad grammar along the way). I also removed the line about WSB being one of the first people to use the term "queer" self-referentially, because the reference was to a video that has been removed from YouTube. If someone can find another source for that and add it back into the article, that would be great -- it's definitely worth mentioning. Jd4v15 (talk) 20:02, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Heavy metal

I removed the following from the article and bring it here for discussion:

Burroughs is cited as one of the possible origins of the term heavy metal, referring to heavy metal music. The Soft Machine (1963) includes a character known as "Uranian Willy, the Heavy Metal Kid", followed by 1964's Nova Express,<ref>''Nova Express'', p. 112</ref> in which the term is used as a metaphor for addictive drugs.

As it stands, this is not adequately referenced to remain in the article. This allegation has been made for years, but a reference beyond a page number in a Burroughs novel is needed for verification. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 22:07, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Category question

I hope this is not considered inappropriate (ie trying to corral "votes" either for or against), but the category Category:People self-identifying as substance abusers is being discussed for deletion. I think editors interested in the burroughs article would have important thoughts on the matter. I think he should be categorized as such, but I dont assume any editor here would feel the same. I post here simply because he is the highest profile self identifying substance abuser i can think of, whose use bears heavily on his notability.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 16:52, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Carl Weissner

Recently, a sentence was added to the legacy section indicating that Burroughs was a profound influence on the German writer Carl Weissner. Is Weissner especially notable? No source is provided for this supposed influence, so I have to wonder how accurate the claim is. Weissner is mentioned a few times in the new volume of Burroughs' correspondence, and Burroughs seems to have written two letters to his during the late '60s. Clearly, there was some collaboration, but this does not seem adequate to cite the claim that is currently being made. Does anyone know more about Weissner? ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 17:28, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

RJ, how's your German? Mine's quite bad, but there's a Carl Weissner article on the German wiki (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Weissner), which mentions Burroughs, Bukowski, Ginsberg, et al., as influences (or something). Might be worth dumping the article into a translation engine when you have time. --Seduisant (talk) 19:18, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Uh, my German is terrible. I was actually kicked out of German class. My guess, though, is that if Weissner has a German Wiki article, he's notable enough to be mentioned here. But, it still needs a source. Maybe I can figure out something from the Deustsche article, if someone else does not do so first. Cheers! ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 03:26, 25 February 2012 (UTC)